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Cutting the CF/DND HQ bloat - Excess CF Sr Leadership, Public Servants and Contractors

In today's security climate we need military ready to go immediately, Regular Force or i.e. National Guard fighter sqns type units.  Not a chance of this concept ever happening in Canada. We may need more part time military, but we do not need more Reserve "regiments". There is enough "armored recce regiments" in LFWA for a Corps. There are two infantry "regiments" in Winnipeg that are tactically grouped and are less than one company strength.

I have always wondered at the US educational system that makes their National Guards so much smarter than the Canadian reserves, as the Americans operate helicopters, fighters, cargo aircraft and various complex land equipments.

Push the Reg F out of NDHQ and replace with Reservists who parade one weekend a month and every Tuesday night. Probably the CF will be more efficient if less harassed. 

 
Rifleman62 said:
Push the Reg F out of HDHQ and replace with Reservists who parade one weekend a month and every Tuesday night. Probably the CF will be more efficient if less harassed.
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THEN who gets to tell who, "we're from HQ and we're here to help you"!  ;D
 
Get the Public Service DND civilians out of the CF in downtown Ottawa. Surely all the almost retired military folks can go to work in a uniform, reserve and regular, and do many, most, all of these jobs just as efficiently. Aggressively pursue remodeling the Reserves into actual deployable units aka the USA.

This is pretty simplistic but in my opinion this is what Canada needs to do if we want effective Armed Forces to serve our great country.

My  :2c:
 
Challenge is not in training operators; it's in training maintainers or contracting out maintenance capacity.  In the case of the Armd Corps, it's also in defining the role we want the Armd Res to perform.  First principle of war: Selection and Maintenance of the Aim.

Once we know what we're supposed to do, the rest is (relatively) easy.
 
Jed said:
Aggressively pursue remodeling the Reserves into actual deployable units aka the USA.

This is pretty simplistic but in my opinion this is what Canada needs to do if we want effective Armed Forces to serve our great country.
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Simple in theory, perhaps less so for the execution.

Army National Guard and Army Reserve
Service Obligations, Methods of Fulfillment, Participation Requirements, and Enforcement Procedures (PDF)

Summary. This regulation defines Army National Guard of the United States and United States Army Reserve service obligations. It prescribes policies and procedures governing the various types of service obligations and participation requirements. There is a discussion on excused and unexcused absences and the policy on pregnancy. Finally, the regulation covers enforcement procedures regarding unsatisfactory participation.
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hamiltongs said:
Nice. The author of a "sweeping" and "comprehensive" report on how to structure the CF got the size of the RCN wrong by a factor of two. Yes, the error just goes to reinforce his point in this case (i.e. NDHQ is big), but you have to wonder how much of his report was the result of careful study when he'd get such a basic number so wrong.
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RCN website says "The navy is composed of approximately 8,500 regular and 5,100 reserve sailors, along with 5,300 civilian personnel."

So 18,900 (which is a Reg/Res/Civ figure) seems pretty close to the 20,000 Reg/Res/Civ figure in the NCR, does it not?


Regards
G2G
 
Rifleman62 said:
Push the Reg F out of NDHQ and replace with Reservists who parade one weekend a month and every Tuesday night. Probably the CF will be more efficient if less harassed.
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and I would love to see that reservist do my job in that time period considering I put in overtime doing a job that used to be done by 2 people. Some jobs do need full time staff. Not a problem though if they aren't able to do it - it is only millions of dollars lost.

No doubt there are positions that could be done away with but such a broad sweep would not help.  Reminds me of the argument some put out to put troops on the front line.  The suggestion was (and still is by some) to get rid of the RMS Clerks at NDHQ and replace them with cheaper civilian counterparts.  Problem with this?  When it comes time that you need someone to do a duty, work evening/weekend, stay late to type that letter/report that was put off until the last minute, etc etc or the civilians go on strike then what do you do?
 
Jed said:
Get the Public Service DND civilians out of the CF in downtown Ottawa. Surely all the almost retired military folks can go to work in a uniform, reserve and regular, and do many, most, all of these jobs just as efficiently.
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You may be right about doing the jobs but what would the benefit be? An increased military, more reservist lost by the units, lost of corporate knowledge, increase cost (the military members cost more than their civilian counterparts) + you have a lot more moves to pay for.


Seems to be a number of people that want to get rid of one or another group.  All the different groups provide a part of the overall functioning and are important.  The solution is not to get rid of all the civilians/regular force/reservist.  Each position needs to be assessed, determined if actually needed and if so should it be civilian/regular force/reservist and what level/rank should they be. An other area that needs to be looked at is the "contracted".  Seems to be a large number of jobs being done by contracted SME's over a lenghty period that maybe could be done by a military member - after all a fair number of these SME's are retired military that are the experts because of their military experience.

NDHQ, including all the commands, needs a complete and comprehensive review of every position. To do a review otherwise does not do justice.  You need to be able to say these positions can be cut because the same task can/is done by this position. Some positions may even need to be upgraded, shifted (pick mine!!) or even new ones created.

 
Rifleman62 said:
It was a Joke, CountDC!
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on your part but it is not the first time I have heard something similar and they were being serious. I have heard every group targetted at some point.
 
CountDC, I was just giving my broad brush opinion and was in no way targeting any group for future economic 'slicing and dicing'. It has taken many decades to evolve to the point we are now at wrt NDHQ, DND, Reserves, Reg Force make up. The evolution will continue.

My experience in all the various organizations, and with how people behave in general, have helped me to formulate my previously stated opinion as to what general direction the CF should be taking wrt employment of personnel.
 
CountDC said:
NDHQ, including all the commands, needs a complete and comprehensive review of every position. To do a review otherwise does not do justice.  You need to be able to say these positions can be cut because the same task can/is done by this position. Some positions may even need to be upgraded, shifted (pick mine!!) or even new ones created.
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The examination must also look at whole organizations to determine their relevance.

I can step into a staff and validate that every position within that staff is critical to the staff performing its function.  However, if I look at that staff as a collective and at what it provides to the larger organization, then I could well determine that that staff is uneccessary.  All those position could be reinvested into operational forces.
 
Good2Golf said:
RCN website says "The navy is composed of approximately 8,500 regular and 5,100 reserve sailors, along with 5,300 civilian personnel."

So 18,900 (which is a Reg/Res/Civ figure) seems pretty close to the 20,000 Reg/Res/Civ figure in the NCR, does it not?
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Touche. I'm not sure most readers of the article would regard supporting civilian employees as being "in" the RCN, though, and comparing class "A" reservists (and I can tell you those numbers are far over current strength) to full-timers in Ottawa is a bit of a stretch. At the same time, a good chunk of those RCN civilians are based in Ottawa doing - gasp - HQ jobs. You could move them all from Ottawa to Halifax to make NDHQ smaller... but would the organization be any leaner?

The fixation on the number of positions in Ottawa is somewhat fatuous: up until 15 years ago we didn't have the three ECSs based there. Did moving MAR/AIR/LFCOM from Halifax/Winnipeg/St-Hubert make DND more or less efficient?
 
Old Sweat said:
Jack is a smart guy. Sometimes however he damages the case he is trying to make by inflammatory language and/or dubious claims. I do wonder what is the aim of the exercise and if it takes into account the present security climate? If he is proposing a reserve force of 45,000, what will this do to the regular force? What about the equipment and accomodation bill?

Hopefully the report will soon be available online for examination.
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I haven't read it yet, but it is available at http://www.opencanada.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/SSWG-Paper-Jack-English-September-2011.pdf.
 
And to cut to the chase:

RECOMMENDATIONS

1. Immediately bring part-time Class A Militia strength up to the 18,500 target that was supposed to have been met in March 2006.
2. Reaffirm the Militia role sanctioned by the Minister and promulgated by the CDS in 2002.
3.      Aim to increase total Class A strength to 45,000 with clearly defined home defence roles within a skeletonized Militia structure that would serve as a framework for further army expansion.
4.   Produce a “no cost” mobilization plan with a war establishment order of battle structure for expanding a skeletonized Militia in emergency. Unit manning and equipment in this planned structure would be restricted by position and item in peacetime.
5.      Restrict Class B service for Militia support only, with all reservists filling regular positions being paid at Class C rates out of the regular budget.
6. Establish a separate Militia pay envelope and ensure it is used for Militia pay only.
7.      Give priority to deploying formed Militia sub-units – and eventually units – for overseas operations and establish a time-efficient through-put training system to accomplish this objective.
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Detailed discussion of these points should probably take place here: Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves
 
MCG said:
The examination must also look at whole organizations to determine their relevance.

I can step into a staff and validate that every position within that staff is critical to the staff performing its function.  However, if I look at that staff as a collective and at what it provides to the larger organization, then I could well determine that that staff is uneccessary.  All those position could be reinvested into operational forces.
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Agree fully. Would that not be part of a complete position review? To me that would not be just looking at the position and how it fits into the org it belongs to but how it fits into the CF completely.  Perhaps the CF would be better served if X posn at CLS was in Gagetown, X Posn at CMS was in Halifax and X Posn at CAS was with 1 CAD instead. Perhaps there is already a posn in NDHQ that is doing the same or almost exact same thing as a posn somewhere else and one of them could be removed. I am sure that a complete and honest review would find many positions that are not needed in NDHQ as I can not imagine that we need 20000 people for a force our size. If we do then I guess we are doing something really wrong.

One point I will bring into this - when people are tossing out numbers for what NDHQ was in the past and what it is now I wonder if they are taking into consideration such things as the HQs move to Ottawa (ie navy moved from Halifax to Ottawa)?
 
I think MCG said it very well. We need to determine what organizations are most required down to least or not required and then like the head coach at try outs, make the cuts for the team.

Each element commander can take responsibility for deciding what needs to go within their own services.

Another side note, this is going to p*ss people off but firing away anyways. I know of a few office jockeys who have been riding desk WAY too long and are serving well (I mean WELL past their prime). Enough of this age 60 Compulsory release, it should be back down to 55 and if it were up to me, 50 unless your in a very position (CO or RSM or higher). For myself, age 50 is only 12 years away and I can pretty much tell ya, I love soldiering but I am not hanging on past then. Assuming I stick around until 50 (I highly doubt it being my knees have taken alot of abuse).

Soldiering, be it infantry, artillery, logistics or what have you, is a young man's game. I can hear alot of people hounding about me about the expiriences and qualifications, etc, etc. Where their is a will, there is a way.

As for the broom sweeping through and cleaning the excess out of Ottawa, you need a bulldog-ish take no garbage leader to do that. Seriously, everybody there will justify their existence as being critical. Apply integrity and decide if your really needed/your section is needed/your HQ is needed/etc.

I was part of of an organization that had to be stood down, true enough we could have argued the need for our existence but their has to be a MAIN effort. That main effort must receive a lions share of the resources.

Is the main effort of the CF to sustain and potentially grow its HQ?

My opinions, fire away (with logic please), I may fire back.
 
The trouble with exercises like this is that it is sometimes too easy to cut positions or organizations that we think add little value overall.  Unfortunately, seldom have I seen a comprehensive analysis done.  What it usually boils down to is the current head honcho (who rarely has to actually live with the results of what he does) paring the organization down by what he thinks is unimportant.  HQs are a favourite target.  We have to remember that rarely is a position established without a reason.  Therefore, it is only logical that we need to ensure that the original reasoning for establishing that position no longer exists before we eliminate it.  Too many times have I seen a situation where something is cut and the dividends are claimed before anyone has a chance to examine it.  The result is usually a loss of capability and tremendous headaches.  What use is cutting the "tail" and transferring assets to the "tooth," if the larger tooth now requires more support from the tail that is no longer there?

Headquarters form a vital function in supporting operations.  Cutting them does not improve the situation.  Staff functions still need to be done and downloading them to individual units causes chaos as standards diverge.  Centralization helps maintain consistency.
 
CountDC said:
Agree fully. Would that not be part of a complete position review?
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Conceivably - it means the review needs to encompas both the big-hand and small-hand examinations.
 
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