Crossfit & the CF

[Strike]

There is a few of us...a few...The best thing is that I can do most of the WOD here at the park right in front of my house. I've been doing crossfit workouts for about 1 year now.
I don't see the AF using crossfit as pt. Most of them will suffer heart attacks from it. they are so out of shape that the staff will need to bring them up to a standard before starting with crossfit.

TB, you need to be quiet right now, before I get my fit body over to the left coast to show you a thing or two.  I hate generalizations, especially ones like that.

Are there even AF types up on high who worry about AF fitness programs like the Army?

DVessey, suggest you try and find your way to a TacHel Sqn for OJT, especially Petawawa.  There is a very large group in the unit that is very fit in various aspects from running to triathlon to ruck marches.  In fact, 427 Sqn has placed extremely well in the past couple of years at the Ironman competition out there.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

hey strike,
sorry you took it personal but lets not hide the fact that the AF needs to upgrade their physical shape.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

davidhmd
You're right, back into the topic. Have any of you tried the muscle up? How did you find it?

 

[ZipperHead]

davidhmd
You're right, back into the topic. Have any of you tried the muscle up? How did you find it?

I found it.... painful (and that was only a jumping muscle-up).This is definitely a "move" that is reliant on equal parts strength and technique. I would highly recommend getting ring dips and ring pull-ups up to a high number (using assistance as required..... lower rings so that you can self assist with legs after burning yourself out). A false grip (google it or look on CrossFit message boards or the videos there) is critical (unless you have super-human strength: it shortens your arms, so to speak), and then keep your hands as close together as possible, and then close to chest and armpits as you push yourself out over the rings (pretend you have hand-cuffs on for the first half of movement... that might help keep hands tight to body).

Coach Glassman and another guy got a 250 lb Marine to do a muscle up with just the right coaching on technique within a 15 minute period. Nichole (she of immense physical conditioning) admitted that it took her a year of work to get to "one ugly muscle up". So, this is definitely not something that the average person is going to achieve in a few attempts. I was using my home made rings (90 degree PVC pipe, rope, cargo strap) and will likely buy some PowerRings ($80, but far superior to my $20 Home Depot special), as they are going to come in handy for working on other skills as well (and hopefully won't bruise/abrade my arms like my cheap-ass rings do).

It took me about 6 months to get to be relatively proficient at hand stand push ups (still working on complete range of motion), so I'm not too concerned with rushing how long it takes to get one solid dead hand muscle up (much more potential for disaster/injury with MU than HSPU if done incorrectly, or if ancillary muscles aren't conditioned enough through training).

Al

 

[The_Falcon]

you can also use blast straps from www.elitefts.com

 

[DVessey]

DVessey, suggest you try and find your way to a TacHel Sqn for OJT, especially Petawawa.  There is a very large group in the unit that is very fit in various aspects from running to triathlon to ruck marches.  In fact, 427 Sqn has placed extremely well in the past couple of years at the Ironman competition out there.

Sounds like an interesting idea, but correct me if I'm wrong, there aren't any CELE positions at a Tac Hel sqn.

For this summer, I'm off to Greenwood for OJT. Definitely taking my rings with me.. it'll be interesting to see what kind of looks I'll get. as for the muscle up, I'm still working on it. I do ring dips and sometimes ring pull ups in my warm up.

 

[DVessey]

Link to Army Fitness Manual and Combat Fitness Program website:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land_force_doctrine_training_system/ex_aita_trg/acim/courses/acim/acim.swf

Very cool resource (in my opinion). There are drop down menus on the bottom, for the CrossFit excercises select 'Combat Fitness Program' and then 'Excercises'.


(Yes, I know I resurected(sp?) an old thread, but I figured it was the right place to put this. If you disagree, by all means start new one).

Cheers!

 

[ZipperHead]

LAV Capt is big on CrossFit, did it for about a month on and off had no gains and actualy lost fitness level for myself so I said forget it and did what was told during PT then did my own work outs based on the old army style of run, rucks with push ups and sit ups at the end...

I am sure it works for people I just thing it's not as good as people think or say and I hate the cult menatily of it. Plus like I said I lost fitness level on it.

I know I'm dredging up an old post, but there was a link to this page from this post: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67092/post-627913.html#msg627913 .

I'm not going to weigh in on the opinion's stated by HorM, but this fact (in bold, above): What fitness (level(s)) did you lose? All levels of fitness? Running (cardio)?? Weightlifting (stamina/endurance/strength)?

Here are the ten accepted fitness categories (stolen from CrossFit Journal Oct 2002, available for free, here: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-download/CFJ-trial.pdf )

GENERAL PHYSICAL SKILLS

If your goal is optimum physical competence then all the general physical skills must be considered:

1. Cardiovascular/respiratory endurance- The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen.

2. Stamina - The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy.

3. Strength - The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force.

4. Flexibility - the ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint.

5. Power - The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time.

6. Speed - The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement.

7. Coordination - The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement.

8. Agility - The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another.

9. Balance - The ability to control the placement of the bodies center of gravity in relation to its support base.

10. Accuracy - The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity.

The thing I like about CrossFit, if done correctly, is it forces you to assess what you are weak in, and try to improve that area. If you were to read the Comments page for any given day that has running (yesterdays Workout of the Day (WOD) was a 10km run, for example) there were more excuses for people substituting ("subbing") that with something else, like rowing or running, or walking, than Kellogs has Cornflakes. Most people have legimitate reasons/excuses, but the true CrossFitter accepts, that while they might suck at running, it is something that needs to be worked on, not avoided. A case in point for me personnally: one of the WOD's gives you the choice of 2 different (but similar workouts):

"Mary"

Complete as many rounds as possible in twenty minutes of:

5 Handstand Push-ups
10 One legged squats
15 Pull-ups

"Cindy"

As many rounds as possible in 20 min

5 Pull-ups
10 Push-ups
15 Squats


When given the choice, I always did "Cindy" as I am much better at push-ups and squats, than I am at one legged-squats (aka 'pistols'). Well, the other day, there was no choice given. I had the options of a) do something else, and ignore my obvious shortcomings (pistols) or b) suck it up and do "Mary" and the pistols. It was excruciating, and I took much longer than I anticipated per round, so consequently my "Mary" score (# of rounds completed) wasn't even close to my best "Cindy" score. But there really isn't a scoreboard anywhere; only one's personal fitness level being improved, which is the ultimate scorecard.

And yes, when I did the 10km run today (I haven't run over 5km in about 4 months) I was slower (by about 1 minute) than when I was running, exclusively, for fitness. But my push-ups are WAY up, my squats (weighted and high rep body weight) are through the roof, my deadlifts have gone from roughly bodyweight to 150% of my B/W, I can do handstands and handstand push-ups, etc. So, in one (of the 10) aspect of fitness, I decreased, but overall (arguably all of the other 9) I have increased.

I am guessing (a wild-ass guess at that), that when the LAV Captain in question started the CrossFit program, he started at a very basic level (low or no weights) to work on form, in the interest of getting the best technique ingrained in the soldiers, rather than jumping straight in with high weights, and risking injuries left, right and center. That, arguably, if the best approach for group-oriented CrossFit training. For one that already has a high level of fitness (across the board), it would be frustrating to watch hard-fought fitness go by the wayside. Understandable. That's why I despised being forced to go on group runs (Squadron PT), done at a snails pace, when I was training for Mountain Man and 20+ km road running relays: it was counter-productive and I resented being lumped in the the "clag".

For anybody to say that they lose fitness (in all, or most of the 10 fitness categories mentioned above) from doing CrossFit, in the recommended manner (in CrossFit parlance: "As RX'd" (the WoD, 3 days on/1 day off, good nutrition, proper rest, etc AND  your normal pursuits: ruckmarches, cycling, swimming, rowing, sports training..... you GOTTA read the fine print: If it seems too good to be true (i.e become an elite athlete from one thing [CrossFit] alone), it usually is), I would love to see what your fitness program is, because I would copy it, market it out the ass (give it funky-ass trendy name), or perhaps sell it to Greg Glassman (or better yet Mark Twight, who "created" the workout that the cast of "The 300" used.... that's a bit of an in-joke, as CrossFit people already know... Mark Twight "borrowed", without giving credit, the principles of CrossFit, and packaged it as his own). If it's: run 3 days a week, weight-train 3 days, take a day off..... rinse, repeat as neccesary, I am more than a little skeptical, because, as the shirt reads "Been there, done that" and it doesn't work. Then again, I'm a CrossFit drone, so I have to toe the party line.

AL

 

[Infanteer]

Huh?

 

[Lumber]

When I was on BOTP this past summer, one of my Sgts was recovering from a broken foot he suffered during JTF2 training, and he was a big cross fit 'nut'. Instead of the mundane 5k morning run, he had us do cross fit once or twice a week. His routine was:

Lunge 15m, do 15 push-ups, sprint back to the starting point, 15 sit-ups with medicine balls, lunge 15m, 14 push-ups, sprint back, 14 sit-ups, lunge, 13 push-ups, etc.... until you get down to 0.

The reason I'm posting this is that this required absolutely no equipment, save  medicine balls, and even those could be done without, replaced with regular sit-ups or a More strenuous version of an ab exercise. Throughout this threat (although I merely scanned it), it seemed like cross fit involved the use of an assortment of equipment.

Was this workout we were performing actually cross-fit? I'll tell ya, my whole platoon had trouble sitting on our butts for the next 3 days thanks to this lovely exercise.

 

[Armymedic]

Al,
Where I work now has a lot (and I do mean a lot) of Crossfit followers, who do the WOD religously. Everyone of them I talked to say that to maintain the high level of fitness required for our jobs, you have to do more than just the WOD. Many incorporate the WOD into thier daily PT.

Such as yesterday it was "Fran", they did it, and then went for a run.

Personally, I do a couple of WOD (as best I can) during the week, in addition to my own wieght/cardio workout schedule. (My personal favorite torture WOD is "Murph").

 

[Munxcub]

Well like all the "anti-crossfit" guys are saying, it's not the end-all be-all of fitness, but it is good stuff and mostly common sense. All it is, is constantly varied functional movements done at high intensity. That's it! If that's what you do on your own then you're already doing it! And they tell you to do this along side your normal sport training, whatever it may be. In our case, it will be rucking and what have you... maybe more pushups then CrossFitters normally do.

Personally I alternate CrossFit "metcon" days and plain old barbell strength training days (and the occasional ruck), and my work capacity, anaerobic tolerance and overall strength and power have increased big time.

I was talking with a SAR tech from Comox (CrossFitter) at an olympic weightlifting course and he said he lost fitness during BMQ, so it goes both ways.

Anyways, that's just my biased opinion as a CrossFit affiliate...

 

[JBoyd]

Unfortunately all this Crossfit stuff makes little to no sense to me, i am very interested in increasing my personal fitness level, as it has dramatically decreased over the past few years. I know a bit about working out but not alot, so i feel kind of lost.

 

[ZipperHead]

What is it [about CrossFit] that makes no sense??

If you are looking for a "get fit quick, with no hard work" scam, don't bother. Like everything else in life, you only get out of it what you put into it.

For what it's worth, I just got back from the Toronto CrossFit certification. I was evaluated as a trainer (level 2) there, and I learned so much (about how to train others, and just the basic mechanics that I forgot or never learned the first time around) that it boggles the mind! For anybody who has done one of the military certs please don't be discouraged by that experience, if that is what is putting you off of CF. My first cert was in Gagetown, and too much time was spent trying to convince non-believers (some, but certainly not all PSP staff; various people that were forced to be there (to fill their unit/schools quota), etc) about the efficacy of CrossFit. The testimonials of the military CFHQ guys (active duty SEALs) was incredible, and missing at the civvy cert, for somewhat obvious reasons (I talked with Dave Castro about this, and this is SOP). At the "civvy" certs, it's true-believers (those that spent a dump-truck load of money to be there... people flew in from Washington State, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New York, Michigan, Montreal, Fredericton, ), so the focus is on training: learning the basics, and how to help others train. There are cert "groupies" who travel (at great expense) to as many certs as they can get to, in their quest for knowledge. Greg Glassman gets better every time I hear him talk. Nicole, Eva T (who I got to train with!!!), Tony Budding, Dave Castro, Pat Sherwood (the "rock stars" of CFHQ that were there) and all the other trainers, and affiliate members, are so passionate about helping others on their quest for fitness, that I was taken aback. I have received so much from Greg Glassman (or "Coach" as he is very fondly, and deservedly, called), for free, I might add, that there is absolutely no way I can repay him (though I try, by spreading the CrossFit gospel to anybody who is willing to listen.... and many who aren't  >). To him, helping out those that help others in society (military, LEO, first responders) is his way of doing his part. Some may think that "they" are in it for the money, and to be honest, I don't know how they don't go broke, as they keep giving everything (the knowledge) away. I don't think any one of them will ever be "rich", but I don't see any of them wanting to: it's about fitness. If they can retire comfortably, good on 'em.

If you don't "get it", even after doing all the required reading (look on the CFHQ website: www.crossfit.com), please contact me via PM, and I will try to help you in any, way, shape or form as I can. If you are willing to work. If you aren't willing to do even the basic research required (to set yourself up, fitness-wise, for life) don't bother contacting me, as CrossFit definitely won't be for you.

Take care,

Allan

 

[JBoyd]

I have been reading a bit on the Crossfit.com website, but still have alot more to read as it seems. I was directed to a site, Simplefit.com that seems to be a good place for me to start my training as a beginner.

 

[The_Falcon]

I have been reading a bit on the Crossfit.com website, but still have alot more to read as it seems. I was directed to a site, Simplefit.com that seems to be a good place for me to start my training as a beginner.

Reading is never a bad thing, it helps to know what exactly is going on inside you when you do these workouts, why x movement/exercise is more beneficial than y movement/exercise, etc.  Admittedly some of the articles are way over my head in terms of knowledge base, but I am still able to pick things up here and there.  If you are keen on getting fit (and more importantly STAYING fit), gaining knowledge (yes by reading) will help you achieve it.

 

[armyvern]

...I learned so much ... it boggles the mind! .... too much time was spent trying to convince non-believers ... about the efficacy of CrossFit... testimonials... incredible ... At the "civvy" certs, it's true-believers ... cert "groupies" .... as many certs as they can get to, in their quest for knowledge... "rock stars" of CFHQ...   so passionate about helping others on their quest for fitness... "Coach"... no way I can repay him (though I try, by spreading the CrossFit gospel to anybody who is willing to listen.... and many who aren't (This may be your problem ...  ) ... they keep giving everything (the knowledge) away...

And now, for the new AmWay presidential nomination ...

I thought you said somewhere else in this forum that you already had a Crossfit site??

Is it down? Is Army.ca now your secondary preaching site because you seem to be making it so every chance you get?? At least, this time, you've put it in the right thread ... but it isn't just your thread. Don't be surprised nor offended when "non-believers" don't buy your above and speak out about it.

Please keep your "stuff" (garble) to this thread too, it goes a long way to ensuring that those of us who don't want or feel like being inundated with it yet again ... know which thread to ignore.

 

[JBoyd]

Reading is never a bad thing, it helps to know what exactly is going on inside you when you do these workouts, why x movement/exercise is more beneficial than y movement/exercise, etc.  Admittedly some of the articles are way over my head in terms of knowledge base, but I am still able to pick things up here and there.  If you are keen on getting fit (and more importantly STAYING fit), gaining knowledge (yes by reading) will help you achieve it.

yes I aswell can pick up things here or there, and as well some of it is over my head. stuff like kipping pull ups (further googling reveals a video and I understand now) along with tabata interval, found something that tried to explain it, didnt explain it to well. but I am keen on becoming fit again and staying fit. Admittedly my fitness level has gone far below where it ever should have gone, and that was entirely my fault, coupled with jobs that did not require any physical movement whatsoever (i.e. computer jobs). however now i have started a regular workout schedule, and im trying to incorporate running into it fully, as well as skip rope. But this crossfit seems just what im looking for in a workout regime. My biggest problem is, that at this time there is no gym in kelowna. someone apparently is starting one but is not up and running yet. so its hard for me to know exactly where to begin and what is going to work best for me. I guess its all going to be trial and error for awhile . one question i have though is, do you need to have a lot of money to do crossfit? i know that on the crossfit website they list prices for lessons, but can you do it by yourself? at home? or a local cheap gym such as the ymca? i only ask because i am committed to getting fit however my pockets are fairly shallow this time of year.

 

[Spartan]

You can workout lots without ANY Gym - try bodyweight excercises - there are quite a few out there on the net - and you can really compile together alot of excercises into circuit training that will kick you in the rear.

 

[The_Falcon]

one question i have though is, do you need to have a lot of money to do crossfit? i know that on the crossfit website they list prices for lessons, but can you do it by yourself? at home? or a local cheap gym such as the ymca? i only ask because i am committed to getting fit however my pockets are fairly shallow this time of year.

If you want to set up a decent home gym (squat cage, barbell, weights, bench, are at minimum things you would require), its going to cost you some money up front, however, there are deals to be had if you look for them (ebay, and placed that sell used equpiment), especially since boxing "week" is coming up soon (thats when I purchased most of my stuff).  I think I have spent close to $1000 on my home gym over the last 22 months, however the average gym membership is about $500 a year, so I have am still ahead.  You'll will probably find that doing crossfit/circuit training style workouts will be much easier to complete at home, as no one will be stealing your equipment cause you have to run to the other side of the gym.