Cost of housing in Canada

[Good2Golf]

Interesting that all the majors dropped their mortgage rates this morning (Dec 1) without any reduction to the BoC Prime Rate…I think the banks realize the loan/mortgage failure tsunami is real and notwithstanding Tiff Macklem’s suspiciously apparently linked to GoC fiscal policy keeping rates high (even though key metrics like the Cdn long term bond rate is dropping consistently)

 

[Remius]

Small change in Ontario…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-open-bidding-real-estate-law-1.7046006

 

[Rifleman62]

Sure this is from the CPC. Can anyone dispute the info?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1814251712338849

Housing hell: How we got here and how we get out.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Sure this is from the CPC. Can anyone dispute the info?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1814251712338849

Housing hell: How we got here and how we get out.

Looks about right, if slightly partisan.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Interesting that all the majors dropped their mortgage rates this morning (Dec 1) without any reduction to the BoC Prime Rate…I think the banks realize the loan/mortgage failure tsunami is real and notwithstanding Tiff Macklem’s suspiciously apparently linked to GoC fiscal policy keeping rates high (even though key metrics like the Cdn long term bond rate is dropping consistently)

View attachment 81531

BoC basically only has one target: inflation rate. It's above threshold. Mostly markets have to try to out-guess the BoC, not vice versa. GoC is pulling the other direction by keeping spending high (as are some provinces). BoC can't force governments to take their feet off the gas pedal.

Mortgage interest rates are roughly where they should stay - 4 to 6 percent range.

In little pieces here and there, the federal government has been enacting policies guaranteed to increase costs of living. Then they look for someone capable of mitigating the damage and blame them when the mitigation isn't sufficient.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yup. Interestingly, recursively, rising interest rates exacerbate inflation (although only circa 30%)…but the majority of inflation remains, as you allude to Brad, from government financing huge deficits that directly devalue the dollar and drive inflation. You’re bang on that the GoC pretends it’s someone else’s fault…if only those pesky budgets would balance themselves.

 

[FJAG]

Sure this is from the CPC. Can anyone dispute the info?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1814251712338849

Housing hell: How we got here and how we get out.

An effective message.

 

[brihard]

Anyone got insight as to how likely this is to be of help in all this? Housing minister Sean Fraser announces that a post-WW2 program of ‘pre-approved’ home designs will be resurrected to reduce red tape at all governmental levels in getting housing starts going. From the outside looking in I can see merit, and it’s a ‘tangible’ policy. Also interesting to see Fraser continuing to gain prominence.

Canada revives a war-time housing program amid crunch | Globalnews.ca

Ottawa will revamp a Second World War-era housing plan to speed up the pace of home building in Canada, Housing Minister Sean Fraser says.

globalnews.ca

 

[IKnowNothing]

Anyone got insight as to how likely this is to be of help in all this? Housing minister Sean Fraser announces that a post-WW2 program of ‘pre-approved’ home designs will be resurrected to reduce red tape at all governmental levels in getting housing starts going. From the outside looking in I can see merit, and it’s a ‘tangible’ policy. Also interesting to see Fraser continuing to gain prominence.

Canada revives a war-time housing program amid crunch | Globalnews.ca

Ottawa will revamp a Second World War-era housing plan to speed up the pace of home building in Canada, Housing Minister Sean Fraser says.

globalnews.ca

I should be getting paid.

 

[Quirky]

How much will a war-time house cost on a plot of land in the GTA? $700-800k?

Modular housing isn't new, tones of companies offer this already. Issue is finding the land to build all these homes in dense cities like Vancouver and Toronto.

 

[brihard]

How much will a war-time house cost on a plot of land in the GTA? $700-800k?

Modular housing isn't new, tones of companies offer this already. Issue is finding the land to build all these homes in dense cities like Vancouver and Toronto.

Yup, absolutely. My wife grew up in the lower mainland of BC; we still go back to visit. Taking Coquitlam as an example, she grew up in a neighbourhood of 60s/70s housing. Dated today but still perfectly serviceable. However the land alone is going for north of 1.5mil; they tend to be decently sized legacy lots. So on literally one in three residential blocks (much of the town’s a grid) you can see a house that just got sold get knocked down and a new much larger house built that fills the land parcel to the maximum allowable footprint, generally multigenerational homes with 6+ bedrooms.

From what I was reading, part of the federal housing catalogue plan is to not just have detached home, but fourplexes, low rise buildings, student residences etc. it won’t solve land costs, but it could accelerate shovels in dirt and potentially reduce development overhead costs.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yup, absolutely. My wife grew up in the lower mainland of BC; we still go back to visit. Taking Coquitlam as an example, she grew up in a neighbourhood of 60s/70s housing. Dated today but still perfectly serviceable. However the land alone is going for north of 1.5mil; they tend to be decently sized legacy lots. So on literally one in three residential blocks (much of the town’s a grid) you can see a house that just got sold get knocked down and a new much larger house built that fills the land parcel to the maximum allowable footprint, generally multigenerational homes with 6+ bedrooms.

From what I was reading, part of the federal housing catalogue plan is to not just have detached home, but fourplexes, low rise buildings, student residences etc. it won’t solve land costs, but it could accelerate shovels in dirt and potentially reduce development overhead costs.

How big does the sewer pipe into the neighbourhood have to be?

 

[Remius]

I would suppose that as supply increases costs could eventually come down. Depends how extensive the program will be.

 

[dimsum]

I should be getting paid.

Hello, Minister Fraser

 

[Kirkhill]

David Dodge: Too much. Too fast.

FIRST READING: How record-high immigration could be hurting Canadian productivity

Former BoC governor David Dodge argues that constant cheap labour is eroding Canadian competitiveness

nationalpost.com

Canada’s recent turn towards record-high immigration is already having measurable impacts on housing prices and employment numbers – but in a recent report, former Bank of Canada Governor David Dodge suggested that it is also eroding the country’s competitiveness and long-term productivity.

“In the last years, we have altered an economic immigration system that stood as a model for the world,” declares a Dec. 11 report co-written by Dodge for the law firm Bennett Jones. But where Canada once oversaw a carefully managed immigration system that prioritized “highly skilled workers,” the report said Ottawa has now “ramped up significantly” the intake of foreign students and other low-skilled temporary workers.

“Poor administration and the abuse of some programs are damaging the credibility of the system for immigrants and Canadians,” warned the report, which also cautioned that the “large and rising inflow of workers with lower skills” risks depressing wages.

Most notably, Dodge and his co-author argue that by constantly flooding the Canadian market with cheap and often temporary labour, Ottawa is propping up “un-competitive” businesses — and ultimately doing long-term damage to Canadian productivity.

Meanwhile, the massive influx of newcomers is having noticeable effects on Canada’s existing housing shortage as well as overall employment numbers.

In just two months — from August to September – Canada added slightly more than 100,000 jobs, according to a Statistics Canada labour force survey.

However, given that high immigration was adding about 50,000 new workers into the economy each month, the agency said that the unemployment rate remained completely unchanged.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It might help where land is cheap; otherwise, builders are still going to want to maximize their profits, which means building the most profitable homes, which are not likely to be modest cookie-cutter designs unless prefab really brings down the cost of construction.

In the late '60s and early '70s, it was not unreasonable for a two-man framing crew to get from hole-in-the-ground to lock-up in 2 weeks. I suppose that what took time then, and takes time now, is finishing. For example, it must take longer to lay tile and wood than it does to lay carpet and linoleum.

 

[Eaglelord17]

David Dodge: Too much. Too fast.

FIRST READING: How record-high immigration could be hurting Canadian productivity

Former BoC governor David Dodge argues that constant cheap labour is eroding Canadian competitiveness

nationalpost.com

100% the labour market cannot correct exploitative practices because they can always bring in a foreign worker to do it for less than what should be the market rate.

Not to mention many of the lower income jobs purposely hire foreign workers because they are easier to exploit as they don’t know the labour laws and are unlikely to do anything about it.

All you need to do is look at the jobs posted below market rate. They do that because they know they aren’t going to get any takers. Then after so long they can go to the government, say the work cannot be filled locally, and bring in a foreign worker for less than it should be.

 

[Kirkhill]

100% the labour market cannot correct exploitative practices because they can always bring in a foreign worker to do it for less than what should be the market rate.

Not to mention many of the lower income jobs purposely hire foreign workers because they are easier to exploit as they don’t know the labour laws and are unlikely to do anything about it.

All you need to do is look at the jobs posted below market rate. They do that because they know they aren’t going to get any takers. Then after so long they can go to the government, say the work cannot be filled locally, and bring in a foreign worker for less than it should be.

And in related labour market news.....

Jamie Sarkonak: Liberals to mandate reverse discrimination with job quotas for Black, LGBT people

Labour Minister O'Regan plans to expand federal affirmative action regime, further degrade merit and fairness in public service

nationalpost.com

I know a 35 year old white, male CET who just went to get his fork lift certification because he couldn't get any job offers as a draftsman, surveyor or concrete tester. He met a Nepali MBA at the course, recently immigrated to Canada, if he knew of any job openings.....

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[Kirkhill]

It might help where land is cheap; otherwise, builders are still going to want to maximize their profits, which means building the most profitable homes, which are not likely to be modest cookie-cutter designs unless prefab really brings down the cost of construction.

In the late '60s and early '70s, it was not unreasonable for a two-man framing crew to get from hole-in-the-ground to lock-up in 2 weeks. I suppose that what took time then, and takes time now, is finishing. For example, it must take longer to lay tile and wood than it does to lay carpet and linoleum.

Don't forget the Ikea kitchen and bathroom.

Kitchens still had hutches and pantries instead of masses of cupboards and drawers and made do with a single sink.

 

[GR66]

Don't forget the Ikea kitchen and bathroom.

Kitchens still had hutches and pantries instead of masses of cupboards and drawers and made do with a single sink.