Correcting the continuing ignorance regarding the NDP (& shots on the Conservatives)

[TCBF]

I heareby take full responsibility for this thread going off topic.  Now, lets get back to edjimacatin' the rest of the world as to reality, as we know it.

Q1.  Bill Clinton thanks us - repeatedly - for being in Afghanistan.  This has given the NDP a case of the vapours, and they don't quite know how to handle it.  How do we get Taliban Jack to listen to Bill Clinton?

Q2.  The best predictor of future performance is past performance - ask any HR professional, and they will tell you that.  So, what, in it's PAST few decades, has the NDP done to bolster, or support the bolstering, of Canada's defence?

 

[PJ D-Dog]

Yet this entire thread is based on second-hand stories of individuals (all relayed through you) that have become generalizations on the CF.  hmmm . . .

All electronic and print media is based on second-hand stories related through someone.  Any basic journalism course will teach you this.  This forum is a type of a reporting tool.  We have testimonials of those who have first hand accounts of events and we have those who relate "second-hand stories".  This is how information gathering is done.  If this were an actual credible news publication our burden of proof would be based on providing names, dates, places etc to help validate the information.  Due to defamation and privacy laws, we don't name them.  This is a place to pass on and discuss information and events in an informal manner.

As a trained Marine Corps combat correspondent and broadcaster, I try and apply all the standards that I work by when providing information.  Granted our format here is relaxed therefore I do not seek secondary or tiertiary validation sources.  I don't need too as I know the sources personnally.  Additionally, these accounts are probably on the fringes of the CF and do not necessarily represent the main stream.  Having said this, they are still valid accounts.  If you continue to choose to ignore the fact that these types of events are taking place in your back yard, then that is your loss.

It is obvious that many many here have made a super effort to discredit anything that I have said.  This is due to the fact that it does not fall within the realm of their own experiences.  I would suggest that we all store these accounts in our brain housing group for later use and be on the look-out for anything that may come up in the future that points in the direction of what has been presented.

PJ D-Dog

 

[George Wallace]

It is obvious that many many here have made a super effort to discredit anything that I have said.  This is due to the fact that it does not fall within the realm of their own experiences.  I would suggest that we all store these accounts in our brain housing group for later use and be on the look-out for anything that may come up in the future that points in the direction of what has been presented.

Are you trying to tell us that the 'one percent' comment invalidates the 'ninety-nine percents' comments?  You work with some fairly strange odds.

 

[TCBF]

PJ D-Dog makes a good point:  Just because there are standards to meet does not always mean that they are always met.  The question here is whether Fez thought those examples were the result of our standards, or of some of us not meeting (or being given the opportunity to meet) them.  If he thought that they represent our current policy, I think by now he might accept that they generally do not.  But: things happen.

Tom

 

[vonGarvin]

How do we get Taliban Jack to listen to Bill Clinton?

I never thought that in my life I would ever hear that question, or wonder about it myself!!!!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Fez,
I have stayed out of this train wreck of a thread because I saw nothing I could add.  However I just have to wonder if you conduct your electoral procedure and your union business in the same manner as you blustered onto the scene here.

Did you read anything on this huge forum about things like training standards, ammo allotment, etc., before you told us our problems?
When you conduct union business do you tell the workers what their problems are or would you research first?  Did you tell the electorate in your riding what exactly they needed based on a couple of second-hand accounts and then dig in your heels about what their problems were also?

Might explain the failed attempts...........

I know very little about the training standards our soldiers are doing right now and my post count in those threads reflect exactly that.....and you?

 

[Matt_S]

This isnt gonna be a good first post but I think its time someone stood up to the banter here a bit. Simply put the continuing ignorance regarding the role of the NDP in the degradation and missmanagement of the military is astounding. Dont any of you realize its successive conservative and liberal govs who have done this? Dont you know by now the Tories would choose a tax cut over properly giving you guys more than 5 measly bullets a year for rifle training? Or enough armor vests or helmets so returning troops dont have to hand them over to incoming troops? The ndp had nothing to do with this situation. We only ever were able federally to effect some small changes during minority govs only as of late.

How about those afghan training workups for troops about to go into theater? Apparently theres no training to recognize ied's? This from an ex marine corps guy who joined the forces recently and is horrified at the lousy pre deployment training... What about those dark green armor vests on tan camos? We can afford billions for aircraft (wholeheartedly support any and all purchases as we need just about everything we can get our hands on at this point) but we cant afford basics for the boots on the ground? 

Dont get me started on unions some of you guys just dont realize where the middle class in this country came from. If it wasnt for unions we'd all be competing with cheap labor. Trust me on this one you WILL see a major influx of immigrants who WILL take your wages to the bottom on civvy street under the libertories.   

Alberta is giving its oil away. Look at Norway with its 200 billion in its trust fund and get back to me. And yes its as hard to get oil out of the north sea as it is from the tar sands.

Im a big supporter of the military. And a long time NDP supporter who knows many vets in the ndp.  There is no reason we cant spend 30 billion a year on the military today. Its not a choice between social programs and the military. Its a choice between tax cuts for billionaires, oil firms ect... and program spending. Are there some in the ndp who are anti military? Of course as there are in all parties.  Itd be a whole lot smarter to get informed about who supports you in all parties.  Rather than ignore the corridors of power in favor of simplistic propaganda from the right. That same right that sold the chinooks and gutted what little was left in the forces that the libs hadnt already gutted.

As a 2 time candidate for office (provincially) I will continue to support the forces and especially the little guys.  Hillier has a hell of job ahead of him to reform the stagnation in the forces and *** backward thinking that has also led to a lot of the degradation. I just hope the men and women under arms will realize where their real support lies. Its not just in one party.

As for afghanistan there is reason to be concerned. A war against the taliban has become a war against opium. Thus against a vast swath of the afghani population.   At the very least we need to buy that crop to turn it into cheap meds on the world market. We shouldnt be in the US boat on this they are paranoid about anything "drugs".   Recent election wont likely change that.  If not the mission could very well be fubared. Nato and press reports are not very optimistic here. From kids starving less than a couple miles from base camp in Kandahar to reports of the taliban massing now less than 100 miles from Kabul... I doubt those handful of leos can overturn a badly managed campaign.

If you are trying to drum up support for the NDP by portraying them as friends of the military you have a serious uphill battle my friend.
The NDP is no friend of the military,and is most certainly an ememy of freedom and democracy.If I wanted live under the control of a Statist totalitarian regime I would move to North Korea or another country of it's ilk.
It's funny how you are trying to compare Liberal and conservative ideologues,when in fact it is uber leftist parties such as the Bloc,NDP and LIEberals whose political dogmas are indistinguishable from each other.Even if I had never served in the military I would oppose the NDP and the rest of the socialist hordes who are destroying my Country from the inside out.

 

[Journeyman]

Did you read anything on this huge forum about things like training standards, ammo allotment, etc., before you told us our problems?
When you conduct union business do you tell the workers what their problems are or would you research first?

I gather that his "research" on CF equipment was limited to asking a "trained Marine Corps combat correspondent," who researched diligently by asking his non-operational airforce cousin, and another Marine who had met Canadians once.

I see a potential flaw in the NDP's intellectual validity here, and I see no further use in this thread.  :

 

[GAP]

I too do not think there is any more redeeming information to be covered in this thread.

It has served as a lesson to those that chose to NOT research their questions, but what happens when they state and stand by biased, incorrect views on this site.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Locked,...but if Fez wishes to rebutal then myself or one of the other Mods will open it for him.
Bruce