Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]

[Colin Parkinson]

a nice article on the 1100 class

http://www.nsnews.com/news/a-ship-for-all-seasons-1.15295925

http://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopoly_fs/1.15298898.1492126537!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/laurier-bow.jpg

 

[Blair Gilmore]

Although the Liberal government is promising to finally boost the CCG with some decades in coming spending, they're still making mistakes by cutting programs such as the Dive Team in Richmond, BC. It's the only team of its type in all of Canada and it fills a rescue niche for the Lower Mainland that can't be filled by other services like SAR Techs or civilians. I've added my voice to the growing backlash against the decision, you can read my article here:

http://www.happydiver.space/?p=434

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was there at the start of the dive team and I know what it cost the rescue personal to have to sit there and listen to the trapped survivors in the hulls and not being able to respond from before the team started. Starting the dive team was an uphill battle until the Minister became frustrated with the games of management and ordered it to be fully funded. CCG managed to kill the Rescue swimmer program and tried to kill the Rescue Specialist program as well. All 3 programs were started at the grassroots level in Kits base and the Hovercraft by very dedicated individuals who saw the need and envisioned a solution. Meanwhile CCG management was trying to close both Kits and the Hovercraft base because they hated being responsible for inshore SAR and it was a budgetary threat to the big ships. I am not surprised by this move at all.

DFO is also shutting down fish habitat restoration projects and reassigning the personal to other things.

All hail the new regime "Ocean Protection Program" dissent is not tolerated and obedience is required"   

 

[MarkOttawa]

Show me some real CCG money--hah!  First a tweet:

Timothy Choi‏ @TimmyC62
...
Most of them are already 30 years old, being built in the '80s...
https://twitter.com/TimmyC62/status/872939773777674240

Now sailing on forever almost (further links at original):

Canadian Coast Guard Fleet Modernization Underway

ABB said it will modernize 10 out of 14 Medium Icebreakers and High Endurance Multi Task Canadian Coast Guard ships to extend operational life of the vessels by another 20 years.

“For more than 75 years ABB has been working at the cutting edge of icebreaker technology and we are delighted to bring this expertise to these Canadian Coast Guard ships,” said Jyri Jusslin, Senior Vice President of ABB Global Marine & Ports Service. “We have a long successful track record of working with both AC and DC systems and we are delighted the Canadian Coast Guard recognizes ABB as a reliable partner.”

Design and work supply on first of the 10 vessels, CCGS Pierre Radisson, is already underway and will be completed in July 2017. From then on the remaining nine vessels will be completed in following order: CCGS Ann Harvey (2018), CCGS Des Groseilliers (2018), CCGS Sir William Alexander (2018), CCGS Martha L. Black (2018), CCGS Henry Larsen (2019), CCGS Edward Cornwallis (2019), CCGS Sir Wilfrid Laurier (2020), CCGS George R. Pearkes (2020), CCGS Amundsen (2020).

Medium Icebreakers and High Endurance Multi Task Vessels typically work year round, performing search and rescue, maritime navigational aids, ice breaking, oceanographic studies, patrol and protection of Canada coastline. In winter, the vessels are assigned to icebreaking and ship escort operations at Canadian waters, St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes. Every summer CCGS Amundsen is charted by a scientific consortium and makes her way to the Canadian Arctic to conduct a wide variety of scientific missions. While in the Arctic, the vessels also serve as a primary search and rescue unit and provides support to scientific missions when possible...
https://www.marinelink.com/news/modernization-canadian426174

Mark
Ottawa

 

[jmt18325]

For the work they do, they don't really need cutting edge technology.  They do need reliability.  Hopefully in another decade that won't be such a problem for them.

 

[MarkOttawa]

List of CCG vessels--note age of larger ones;
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/Fleet/Search?todo=all#results

Mark
Ottawa

 

[jmt18325]

No question, they're old.  If we can get 20 more years out of some of them, I think that's great.  It gives us time to replace the ones that we can't get 20 years out of.

 

[chrisf]

For the work they do, they don't really need cutting edge technology.  They do need reliability.  Hopefully in another decade that won't be such a problem for them.

What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive?

Cutting edge technology in modern shipping is reliability.

The whole industry is very focused on reducing downtime and reducing maintenance costs.

Modern technologies and systems reduce crewing costs and simplify operations.

Unfortunately, the coast guard as an organization does not have the knowledge or skill base to operate and maintain a modern ship at the moment, there would be a very steep and sudden learning curve for any crew assigned to a modern boat.

It's already been an issue with some of their new smaller boats.

 

[Navy_Pete]

What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive?

Cutting edge technology in modern shipping is reliability.

The whole industry is very focused on reducing downtime and reducing maintenance costs.

Modern technologies and systems reduce crewing costs and simplify operations.

Unfortunately, the coast guard as an organization does not have the knowledge or skill base to operate and maintain a modern ship at the moment, there would be a very steep and sudden learning curve for any crew assigned to a modern boat.

It's already been an issue with some of their new smaller boats.

One example is the onboard equipment health monitoring packages (EHM) that phone home with data packets to the OEM daily.  They have teams of experts monitoring for trends etc and all the operational data lets them build extensive databases to help predict problems before they come up.  They can do the same with vibration analysis and other good tools.

So you'll get emails like 'check cylinder A4 on your DG as it's been starting to run hotter at low loads' and pick up potential issues that are starting to drift within the normal range before it gets to a problem.  This is harder to do looking at logs with a once an hour snapshot, and you tend to not catch things until they are outside of normal.

 

[MarkOttawa]

New CCG icebreaker to be Norwegian design, haven't seen the gov't mention that (by same company, owned by Fincantieri, that did RCN A/OPS):

Vard Marine has decades of experience with the design of icebreakers and ice-capable ships for operations in the Arctic, Antarctic, and many sub-polar areas of the world. Our extensive database includes full and model scale performance information on our own designs, vessels built by the Vard Group, and many other icebreakers. We conduct in-house and contract research into key aspects of these ship types, including hull form, propulsion plant configurations, structural design, and winterization. Vard Marine has provided assistance to the development of the new IMO Polar Code, and continues to provide guidance to owners, operators and other stakeholders on how to implement regulatory requirements...

he VARD 9 206 is a Polar Icebreaker designed to be the flagship vessel for the Canadian Coast Guard, with a multi-mission capability. The ship can break up to 2.5m of level ice, and has excellent manoeuvrability in even heavy ice conditions. Ship systems are designed to provide very high levels of operational availability by design and through equipment selection. The mission systems are configured to allow for operations in extreme weather conditions while minimizing crew and mission personnel exposure. Vard Marine worked with the designated shipyard for this project to include numerous design for production features.

The VARD 7 100i was developed as the basis for the Royal Canadian Navy’s new fleet of Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships. This design balances icegoing and open-water performance requirements to fulfill the Navy’s missions around the world’s longest coastline...

https://vardmarine.com/vessel-design-portfolio/specialized-vessels/ice-breakers/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Seaspan nicely buries Vard Marine design of new icebreaker in caption at image here--"* Reproduced by permission of Canadian Coast Guard and VARD Marine":
https://www.seaspan.com/building

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Imagine how much money would be saved, and how much sooner delivery, if we just bought new CCG icebreaker direct from VARD Marine!  But those jobs! jobs! jobs! Fie on both Conservatives and Liberals.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[George Wallace]

Seaspan nicely buries Vard Marine design of new icebreaker in caption at image here--"* Reproduced by permission of Canadian Coast Guard and VARD Marine":
https://www.seaspan.com/building

Mark
Ottawa

I doubt the Trudeau Liberals will permit a CCGS to be named after a Conservative PM.  [

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Imagine how much money would be saved, and how much sooner delivery, if we just bought new CCG icebreaker direct from VARD Marine!  But those jobs! jobs! jobs! Fie on both Conservatives and Liberals.

Mark
Ottawa

Actually, Mark: Not possible.

First of all, VARD Marine is an engineering and naval architecture company. They design the ships and develop the detailed building plans, but they don't have a shipyard and don't build anything themselves.

Second, VARD marine has developed very few design themselves. About 75% of their portfolio is basically the plans and designs of STX Marine Canada, of Vancouver, that they acquired when they bought them and Kraevner out. The actual ice breaker designs and the patrol vessels (from the Kiwi 85 m. OPV of project protector, to the Roislin and Beckett of the Irish naval Service, for instance, are all Canadian designs of STX).

As for the Norwegian yards that built some of those ships, they actually got most of the hulls and superstructure built in Polish shipyard to save money. Norway yards only did the fitting out and finishing work.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Oldgateboatdriver:

...
As for the Norwegian yards that built some of those ships, they actually got most of the hulls and superstructure built in Polish shipyard to save money. Norway yards only did the fitting out and finishing work.

So if we just contracted VARD Marine to deliver the ship, most metal-bashing done in Romania (not Poland https://vardmarine.com/about-vard-marine/corporate-information/ ), surely cheaper and faster than Seaspan?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[chrisf]

First of all, VARD Marine is an engineering and naval architecture company. They design the ships and develop the detailed building plans, but they don't have a shipyard and don't build anything themselves.

To be clear, you're referring to Vards operations in Canada?

As Vard quite definitely operates a number of shipyards, they do excellent work.

International customers buying at their Norwegian yards is a testament to the trade offs between price and quality in modern ship building.

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.vard.com/products/pages/shipbuilding.aspx

Langsten was where the Svalbard was built.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes, Not a Sig Op, I am referring to VARD Marine's Canadian subsidiary, which is the one that is doing the work with Seaspan on the design for various ships of the Shipbuilding Strategy and I believe also helped with the design work on the AOPS.

That division of Fincantierri, even though under the VARD umbrella is an engineering and marine architecture outfit. It was born of the acquisition of STX Marine, with its patrol vessels and ice breakers designs, by Kraevner, first, then by VARD.

The actual shipyards of VARD and VARD itself, before acquiring this book of designs from Kraevner, was concentrating and almost exclusively into construction of oil rig support vessels and other small specialized oil exploration vessels.

When the most famous products on VARD's list of "models" were built, be it the Svalbard or the Nordkapp for ice breaking ships, or the New Zealand's Wellington and Otago OPV, or the Irish naval Service's Beckett class or Roisin class vessels, it was either STX Marine or Kraevner working on their own behalf that were doing the design work. VARD just bought them out to acquire the rights to the designs.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Oldgateboatdriver: Indeed--a tweet to me from Aker Arctic:
https://twitter.com/AkerArctic/status/905735052516044802

@AkerArctic
Interesting how a project that began as a Canadian-Finnish co-operation under STX ended up as a "Norwegian design"...

Second tweet from Aker Arctic:
https://twitter.com/AkerArctic/status/905807608304553984

@AkerArctic
No problem. VARD inherited the project from STX Canada Marine led team where we were responsible for icebreaking hull form, propulsion etc.

Mark
Ottawa

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Seaspan late for CCG, will delay RCN JSS, CCG icebreaker:

Seaspan holds open house to show off new vessel

Members of the public were able to get up close in North Vancouver to Canada’s nearly complete first offshore fisheries science vessel which will come to Esquimalt for its final testing.

More than 3,300 people toured Seaspan’s Vancouver Shipyards’ open house on Sunday to see what taxpayers are buying. In 2011, the federal government announced that Seaspan would be negotiating contracts worth up to $8 billion to build non-combat ships for the navy and Canadian Coast Guard.

The first of three science vessels will likely be launched in early December at Vancouver Shipyards. It is not yet know when it will be towed to Seaspan-owned Victoria Shipyards, based in Esquimalt, for preparation to hand over to the federal government.

It was initially expected to be delivered this year but now that will not take place until 2018 [emphasis added].

Two other science vessels are also under construction in North Vancouver. They are to be ready in 2019.

It was learned last month that federal officials are taking a fresh look at the budgets and construction schedules for two new navy resupply vessels and for Canada’s planned new polar icebreaker, also to be built in North Vancouver.

This review is being carried out because the three science vessels are arriving later than originally planned [emphasis added]...
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/seaspan-holds-open-house-to-show-off-new-vessel-1.23052733

Mark
Ottawa