Compassionate leave eligibility

[SupersonicMax]

When I am presented with a compassionate leave request, my first and foremost concern is to have a consistent application throughout the unit. I certainly consider the urgency of the situation but I also use the CTA definition of immediate family member as a guide, but not as a definitive answer. If someone is really close to their grandparents, for example, and that’s well justified, and one of their their grandparent passes, I’ll grant compassionate leave.

I never grant compassionate leave for pets or for uncomplicated childbirth. I have people use Short - Family Obligations for uncomplicated childbirth.

We can’t forget that we have a pretty generous leave package and people can still use annual leave for things that don’t meet the criteria for compassionate leave…

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

When I am presented with a compassionate leave request, my first and foremost concern is to have a consistent application throughout the unit. I certainly consider the urgency of the situation but I also use the CTA definition of immediate family member as a guide, but not as a definitive answer. If someone is really close to their grandparents, for example, and that’s well justified, and one of their their grandparent passes, I’ll grant compassionate leave.

I never grant compassionate leave for pets or for uncomplicated childbirth. I have people use Short - Family Obligations for uncomplicated childbirth.

We can’t forget that we have a pretty generous leave package and people can still use annual leave for things that don’t meet the criteria for compassionate leave…

As a CO I agree with much of what you say here, but I do grant Compassionate Leave for situations like pets and childbirth. Maybe I'm soft, but I am granted a lot of latitude for what constitutes compassionate circumstances and I am grateful for that. I appreciate manoeuvre room.

I am not going to send someone home from an operational theatre for this, but I will grant 2 days of Compassionate Leave for someone to take care of their pet's last days. I suppose I could grant Short instead, but giving Compassionate recognizes what the leave is being given for. We aren't running a factory, and I am sure that my people give more than they take.

So, I agree that we must have some sense of consistency in our application of policy, while remaining ready to recognize the uniqueness of each person's situation.

 

[CountDC]

We can’t forget that we have a pretty generous leave package and people can still use annual leave for things that don’t meet the criteria for compassionate leave…

But iaw the CFLPM

Annual leave - The purpose of annual leave is to sustain initiative and enthusiasm and to encourage the physical and mental wellbeing of CF members by providing periodic opportunities for rest and relaxation.

I have never used comp lve for my numerous pets over the years, but I can assure you I never found the stress and heartbreak to be "rest and relaxation". Comp or short would be more appropriate.

I also am not a fan of the mentality of asking people to staff a memo through the chain of command requesting comp lve that some have.

 

[SupersonicMax]

But iaw the CFLPM

Annual leave - The purpose of annual leave is to sustain initiative and enthusiasm and to encourage the physical and mental wellbeing of CF members by providing periodic opportunities for rest and relaxation.

I have never used comp lve for my numerous pets over the years, but I can assure you I never found the stress and heartbreak to be "rest and relaxation". Comp or short would be more appropriate.

I also am not a fan of the mentality of asking people to staff a memo through the chain of command requesting comp lve that some have.

Whatever the type of leave they decide to take to deal with the loss of a pet, it won’t be compassionate leave under my command. Short is for compensating hard work/exemplary work. I won’t grant short leave for the loss of a pet either. I can’t see a realistic way to have a fair application of policy for pets. Where does it stop? Dogs and cats? Gold fishes? Hamsters? Somewhere in between? How is that threshold justified?

As far as rest and relaxation for annual leave, being away from work is, in itself, rest and relaxation. What you do during annual leave is up to you and it becomes a personal decision to take annual leave (or not) to grieve a pet. I take annual leave to attend my kids’ sports tournaments and I can guarantee you it is not rest nor relaxation but that’s the appropriate type of leave. We have an extremely generous leave package already.

As far as memos goes, I typically only require the Notes section of the leave entry to explain the situation. If I have questions, I’ll ask the Flight Commander. I require memos for nothing for internal matters. Typically, emails will do the trick. And they don’t need specific formats or stellar grammar. They just need to be clear and concise.

 

[SupersonicMax]

As a CO I agree with much of what you say here, but I do grant Compassionate Leave for situations like pets and childbirth. Maybe I'm soft, but I am granted a lot of latitude for what constitutes compassionate circumstances and I am grateful for that. I appreciate manoeuvre room.

Attending a childbirth is literally in the definition of Short Leave (Family-Related Obligations)

 

[childs56]

Yet I had to argue with my COC to get leave to attend a Military Funeral that I was invited to by the Spouse. Once the CO and RSM got ahold of the denied leave pass he said take what you need, how you need it and let me know when your coming back. He was a excellent Sqn CO, the Flight Officer I had not so much, the WO could have fought harder but he had to work with the Captain.
Reading a few of the comments on here makes me wonder is it about the Men and Women or is it about yourself? Give your men and women the chance. If they take advantage of it then reel it back in. But being a stick in the mud makes bitter people. Bitter people spread the word fast tend to do the bare minimum. Kinda like setting a Unit BBQ on Saturday and telling your people its one burger or one dog each, no beer.

 

[btrudy]

I swear, it's like some people think that if you approve a leave pass, you're required to pay out their salary for that time personally.

I cannot fathom someone's initial reaction being to deny stuff like this.

 

[Furniture]

Whatever the type of leave they decide to take to deal with the loss of a pet, it won’t be compassionate leave under my command. Short is for compensating hard work/exemplary work. I won’t grant short leave for the loss of a pet either. I can’t see a realistic way to have a fair application of policy for pets. Where does it stop? Dogs and cats? Gold fishes? Hamsters? Somewhere in between? How is that threshold justified?

As far as rest and relaxation for annual leave, being away from work is, in itself, rest and relaxation. What you do during annual leave is up to you and it becomes a personal decision to take annual leave (or not) to grieve a pet. I take annual leave to attend my kids’ sports tournaments and I can guarantee you it is not rest nor relaxation but that’s the appropriate type of leave. We have an extremely generous leave package already.

This sort of attitude might be part of why the CAF struggles to recruit and retain personnel...

Edit: Not to say that you specifically are driving people out, rather the attitude that "You're already compensated well, suck it up" is the issue. Clearly the compensation and leave aren't keeping people in, so something either needs to change in the way we work, or the way we compensate for the expected work.

 

[captloadie]

While I agree with how SM applies the policy, I think part of it has to do with the culture the Air Force has. Very few RCAF units do block leave, so the majority of members take their leave as they need or want it, within the ability of the organization to grant it. We tend to have a problem getting most people to use all their annual leave, so we sometimes are less lenient on granting other types (shorts for everyone every month for example).

I can see where individuals from units that mandate when and where leave can be taken to meet block leave periods, exercises, etc. have less flexibility to take annual leave for some things because it is mostly already planned out, so they need to access other forms to cover off when they have used their 20/25 days.

It might be an interesting experiment to allow Army members to take leave whenever they want, and just ship them in and out of exercises to take leave, just like what happens in real life on operations, or when you need to call up reserves. Would make a more realistic training event in my mind, so not much more of a cost.

 

[SupersonicMax]

This sort of attitude might be part of why the CAF struggles to recruit and retain personnel...

Edit: Not to say that you specifically are driving people out, rather the attitude that "You're already compensated well, suck it up" is the issue. Clearly the compensation and leave aren't keeping people in, so something either needs to change in the way we work, or the way we compensate for the expected work.

Most of my post was about a fair application of policy. That’s my priority #1. I can’t honestly do that for pet leave.

Telling people we have a good leave package is not what drives people out. That is an accepted fact. I’d argue not explaining, in detail, the reasons of decisions drives more people out because they don’t think they’re considered. Walking the lines and speaking with people, genuinely, being interested in what they do day to day, goes a long way in building unit morale.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I swear, it's like some people think that if you approve a leave pass, you're required to pay out their salary for that time personally.

I cannot fathom someone's initial reaction being to deny stuff like this.

Again, fair application of policy. Do you grant short for a dead goldfish?

I don’t pay their salary but it has an effect on the capacity of the unit to meet its mandate. If leave clearly fits within policy, I will not deny it, unless there are operational reasons and we cannot find a replacement for that individual.

 

[Quirky]

This sort of attitude might be part of why the CAF struggles to recruit and retain personnel...

Edit: Not to say that you specifically are driving people out, rather the attitude that "You're already compensated well, suck it up" is the issue. Clearly the compensation and leave aren't keeping people in, so something either needs to change in the way we work, or the way we compensate for the expected work.

I don't think anyone is going to release if they get denied pet death leave, but they need to realize that the majority of the western world doesn't give paid time off, unless they take one of their annuals, for special or compassionate circumstances. If it's September and someone is requesting special or compassionate for weird situations like this with 25 days still in the bank, I would say use your annual days.

 

[Furniture]

I don't think anyone is going to release if they get denied pet death leave, but they need to realize that the majority of the western world doesn't give paid time off, unless they take one of their annuals, for special or compassionate circumstances. If it's September and someone is requesting special or compassionate for weird situations like this with 25 days still in the bank, I would say use your annual days.

My point was that the CAF can't keep people, part of what keeps people, despite things not being great, is compensation. So the CAF can either change the way it works, or it can compensate people better... Likely it should do both, but extra compensation in the form of time off for personal reasons is pretty low hanging fruit. There are very few positions in the CAF that are so critical that giving a person a day off to bury their dead dog/goldfish/hamster/snake is going to impact operations.

I agree on the 25 days Annual in September, but leadership should have caught that before September, and told the member to make a plan for their leave days.

Most of my post was about a fair application of policy. That’s my priority #1. I can’t honestly do that for pet leave.

Telling people we have a good leave package is not what drives people out. That is an accepted fact. I’d argue not explaining, in detail, the reasons of decisions drives more people out because they don’t think they’re considered. Walking the lines and speaking with people, genuinely, being interested in what they do day to day, goes a long way in building unit morale.

Why not for pet leave? Fair application would simply be, "did your pet die and you asked for the day?" Why worry about the species of the pet? Can people not love birds, goldfish, groundhogs, etc., as much as dogs and cats?

I 100% agree that consistency, and transparency in decision making are far more important than compassionate leave for pets. That in no way changes the reality that small grievances over time can matter as much as singular major grievances. Nobody quits because they can't get a uniform that fits, but they might quit after they can't get a uniform that fits, they couldn't get a day off to bury the goldfish with their kid, CFHD impacted their lifestyle, and they are doing two jobs because we don't have enough people. No single one of those things would lead a person to quit, but all four...

You are correct that telling people they have a good leave package doesn't drive people out. The attitude behind it can though, which is why I specified it's the attitude that leads to issues. The attitude can be sometimes be closely related to "you get paid 24/7", "you won't get this much time off civi side", or "if you don't like it, get out".

Again, to be clear, I'm not suggesting you personally are driving people out of the CAF, just providing a perspective to consider.

 

[btrudy]

Again, fair application of policy. Do you grant short for a dead goldfish?

I don’t pay their salary but it has an effect on the capacity of the unit to meet its mandate. If leave clearly fits within policy, I will not deny it, unless there are operational reasons and we cannot find a replacement for that individual.

For what it's worth, the comment was primarily with regard to the other examples; in laws, military funerals, etc. I probably should have quoted to make that clearer. My bad.

I probably would grant it for a pet's death; for the same reason that I would grant (and do currently recommend) shorts on a regular basis: if you're allowed to, why not? But the policy of course doesn't explicitly use pet death as an example of a suitable situation, so I'm not going to begrudge any commanding officer (of which I'm not one) who doesn't.

But, I mean, I'm pretty sure I know people who would be far more upset about the death of their dog than they would about the death of their parents.

 

[Remius]

Any pet death I deal with is annual or they can take their personal day if they so choose. We do however have much stricter guidelines in the PS on what bereavement leave is typically approved for and what qualifies. Short seems to be the right thing I would guess for the CAF.

Some people are very attached to their animals but then again some people are attached to their plants. I would argue that their is a difference between relationships with plants and animals though but in the same way as there is a difference between animals and humans.

 

[CountDC]

Whatever the type of leave they decide to take to deal with the loss of a pet, it won’t be compassionate leave under my command. Short is for compensating hard work/exemplary work. I won’t grant short leave for the loss of a pet either. I can’t see a realistic way to have a fair application of policy for pets. Where does it stop? Dogs and cats? Gold fishes? Hamsters? Somewhere in between? How is that threshold justified?

As far as rest and relaxation for annual leave, being away from work is, in itself, rest and relaxation. What you do during annual leave is up to you and it becomes a personal decision to take annual leave (or not) to grieve a pet. I take annual leave to attend my kids’ sports tournaments and I can guarantee you it is not rest nor relaxation but that’s the appropriate type of leave. We have an extremely generous leave package already.

As far as memos goes, I typically only require the Notes section of the leave entry to explain the situation. If I have questions, I’ll ask the Flight Commander. I require memos for nothing for internal matters. Typically, emails will do the trick. And they don’t need specific formats or stellar grammar. They just need to be clear and concise.

Although that seems to be a general understanding of most people short is not just for compensating hard or exemplary work. I agree fully that pets are a difficult call which is why I have never asked for comp lve.

Not exactly the best call comparing grieving a death, even of a pet, to attending a kid's sports tournament.

Can you talk more to your army counter parts? They seem to be so hung up on memo writing that it is beyond ridiculous. Have seen them requesting comp lve and notes all over simply stating supported.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think, in general, people appreciate consistent, logical applications of the existing rules, while also being flexible enough to adjust to context.

This is where things like CO's guidance in standing orders are really good; had a few COs basically include guidance and expectations for officers, HODs and CHODs that was a great starting point before you went to them with an issue, and also great if you were XO standing in for the CO (or in some cases OOD) because you had things like direction on compassionate, short leave etc (with some caveats for case by case basis).

It was really helpful ahead of time to know that you would get a day or two of short by default for something like a childbirth (if you were in port), so all you had to do was call in or whatever to the CoC (or duty watch) to let them know, then figure out the paperwork later. Also knowing that additional compassionate leave was available if needed was good as well. I was able to use that as officer of the day a few times to approve things on the CO's behalf and backbrief them later when I couldn't get a hold of them right away, which was great when you are exercising authority you actually have but might be nervous about using without top cover (and alternately, knew what specifically you definitely needed CO's authorisation for which was also good).

Not sure how prevalent that is, but was pretty awesome, as nothing is worse then trying to read minds and anticipate what someone will want when you don't know them, especially at some higher formation levels when the CO is a GOFO (and sometimes even the DCO is a GOFO). I find Ottawa is awful for that, as there is a lot of guessing at who is actually authorized to approve something when the CO is a 1 star 3 or 4 layers up (or more), vice in most units where the CO is a 3 ringer (or 2 1/2).

 

[dapaterson]

We were once proposing a process improvement that would eliminate the need for cover memos at every step of the process, moving to a single electronic form endorsed via e sig at each level.

Army staff rejected it, as apparently memo writing is their vital ground.

 

[Navy_Pete]

We were once proposing a process improvement that would eliminate the need for cover memos at every step of the process, moving to a single electronic form endorsed via e sig at each level.

Army staff rejected it, as apparently memo writing is their vital ground.

With COVID we went to an email format instead of folders for the paperwork; sometimes there is still a memo for tracking recommendations, but most of the time it's done in the email, with the only signatures going on whatever form needs approved. The nice thing is it's pretty easy to just drop the email chain into RDIMS for tracking approval up the whole CoC so essentially does the same function as a cover memo, and then fire the signed whatever off to where ever.

For things like compassionate leave that's in MM at most it's an email to provide a bit of context to the actual MM notification email.

So things like memos and BNs are saved for things going outside the chain for admin, or actual decision briefs for something important enough where you need a record of decision.

 

[childs56]

Again, fair application of policy. Do you grant short for a dead goldfish?

If it is a $500 gold fish one of a kind in Canada maybe.

I don’t pay their salary but it has an effect on the capacity of the unit to meet its mandate. If leave clearly fits within policy, I will not deny it, unless there are operational reasons and we cannot find a replacement for that individual.

Compassionate leave is separate from annual and accumulated leave and the member's CO or OCC, as applicable, determines the conditions under which it may be granted.

Examples of urgent and exceptional personal reasons include but are not limited to.

Technically a CO could deny all compassionate leave if they choose so if they determine the condition does not warrant it. Just because a case had been made with an example a CO could make all kinds of excuses to not grant it. The fall out from that would be pretty bad. But it does say it is left up to their determination with examples of such.