CO of Hal relieved

[KevinB]

That's my take on it. In the early 2000s IIRC I think the CO of 1 VP was relieved of command because he had a few drinks with the Brits in Bosnia despite the order "no alcohol" or similar orders.

Was with the Russians - in Kosovo.
It sort of stopped a shooting battle over the airport / but IIRC he and the RSM where stumbling drunk afterwards.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Was with the Russians - in Kosovo.
It sort of stopped a shooting battle over the airport / but IIRC he and the RSM where stumbling drunk afterwards.

Welcome to Canada. Any other army they would overlooked the indiscretion and lauded the result.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Was with the Russians - in Kosovo.
It sort of stopped a shooting battle over the airport / but IIRC he and the RSM where stumbling drunk afterwards.

Averted a shooting battle?

". . . instead of the serious meeting they had expected, the Russians had prepared what they call a dog-and-pony show, . . . followed by a vodka-fuelled meal."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/two-canadian-officers-return-from-kosovo-in-disgrace-1.173841

Two Canadian officers return from Kosovo in disgrace​

CBC News · Posted: Oct 03, 1999 3:08 PM ET | Last Updated: October 3, 1999

Two of Edmonton's top military officers, who were part of Canada's peacekeeping mission in Kosovo, are back in Canada after being sent home in disgrace.

Lieutenant Colonel Steve Bryan and Major Cliff Reeves with the 1st Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry were ordered to pack their bags and leave the battalion on Friday, after an alcohol-related incident.

Details of exactly what happened in Kosovo are being kept under wraps by military officials. And the Department of National Defence isn't shedding any light on what took place, except to confirm that alcohol was a factor.

Glenn Nordick is a colonel at the Edmonton Garrison. He says both soldiers are highly respected officers, especially Bryan, who was in command of the battalion.

"He did an extremely good job as a commanding officer while he was getting the unit ready to go overseas. I saw him over there and the unit was in very good shape," Nordick said. "It's surprising."

Nordick says he will speak with both men Monday.

Meanwhile, another Edmonton soldier, Lieutenant Colonel Shane Brennan, has taken over command of the Canadian battalion in Kosovo.
Nordick says Brennan's first task will be to lift the spirits of some troops who may have lost confidence in the leadership.

"People become very close to the commanding officers and to the people that are there, and when something like this happens it obviously has an effect on the unit," Nordick said.

He stresses the military won't be taking any further disciplinary action against the soldiers until after an investigation is completed.

Two officers scolded for toasting with the Russians

Canadians say they had to exceed two-drink limit

www.theglobeandmail.com

Two officers scolded for toasting with the Russians​

CBC News · Posted: Jan 19, 2000 10:51 AM ET | Last Updated: January 19, 2000

In a case that pits rules against reality, a senior Canadian soldier was found guilty yesterday of drunkenness for an indiscretion at a luncheon in Kosovo where his Russian hosts pressed him to drink their free-flowing vodka.

Soldiers testified yesterday that instead of the serious meeting they had expected, the Russians had prepared what they call a dog-and-pony show, with demonstrations of their weaponry and vehicles and a strange display of fire-throwing and soldiers biting the heads off frogs. The spectacle was followed by a vodka-fuelled meal.

Major Cliff Reeves, who was charged in November with drunkenness, testified yesterday that he saw no alternative but to break military policy by consuming the alcohol at the event in the summer because a refusal would have been extremely insulting and would have further inflamed relations between Canadian and Russian troops.

"I did not do so for pleasure, but as a means to an end," Major Reeves said.

Testimony at Major Reeves's summary trial in Edmonton marked the first time the circumstances of Aug. 20 -- which also saw the second-in-command of the Canadian contingent, Lieutenant-Colonel Steve Bryan, charged with the same offence -- have been made public.

It also highlighted problems that Canadian soldiers -- dubbed by some countries as the Gatorade brigade for strict rules limiting consumption to no more than two drinks a day -- routinely face on overseas missions in cultures that accept and even promote high levels of drinking on duty.

"When you go to a social function with the Russians, then naturally drinking's going to occur. It puts the Canadians in a somewhat awkward position," said retired General Lewis MacKenzie.

Colonel Bryan and Major Reeves had high hopes for their visit to the Russian compound. Although both countries were acting as peacekeepers in the troubled region for several weeks, no meaningful contact had been made.

Soldiers testified yesterday that they viewed the Russians, whom they had dubbed "the other hockey team," with wariness. Earlier in the summer, Russian troops had outraced forces of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to the Kosovo capital, Pristina, sparking a major embarrassment and tense relations for several weeks.

Major Reeves, as the senior liaison officer for Col. Bryan, who was the commander of the Edmonton-based First Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, finally arranged a meeting for Aug. 20 at the Russian compound.

After the Russians put on their show, Col. Bryan and Major Reeves entered a mess tent with about 15 Russian officers and 25 senior officers from other allied countries.

The tables were set with water, beer and Russian vodka. Given the 40-degree heat, the water fast disappeared amid a series of Russian-led toasts to fallen soldiers. At first, Major Reeves drank juice provided by a Dutch officer. The Russians objected.

"I received disapproving looks and gestures from the head table of Russian officers. They insisted that the toast to the dead be conducted with vodka," said Major Reeves, 33.

Noting that his boss, Col. Bryan, had begun drinking vodka, Major Reeves also allowed the Russians to fill his glass.

Major Reeves was given a reprimand and a $950 fine.

At a court martial in Hull Tuesday, Col. Bryan was found guilty and sentenced to a severe reprimand and fined $1,500. Yesterday was the first time details of the incident were made public.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-soldier-fined-for-drinking-on-the-job-1.243910

Canadian soldier fined for drinking on the job​

CBC News · Posted: Jan 19, 2000 10:51 AM ET | Last Updated: January 19, 2000

A military court has reprimanded a 19-year veteran of the Canadian Forces and fined him $1,500 after a drinking incident last summer.

Lieutenant-Colonel Steve Bryan was relieved of command and sent home from Kosovo following the incident.

Bryan consumed vodka and got drunk in the presence of some of his own troops while at a function with Russian soldiers.

 

[KevinB]

Averted a shooting battle?

". . . instead of the serious meeting they had expected, the Russians had prepared what they call a dog-and-pony show, . . . followed by a vodka-fuelled meal."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/two-canadian-officers-return-from-kosovo-in-disgrace-1.173841

Two officers scolded for toasting with the Russians

Canadians say they had to exceed two-drink limit

www.theglobeandmail.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-soldier-fined-for-drinking-on-the-job-1.243910

The Russians had seized the airport and shots had been fired at NATO troops who had approached / after the ‘meeting’ the Russians allowed NATO forces to the airport.
The articles don’t really do justice to the situation on the ground.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The articles don’t really do justice to the situation on the ground.

Wait…CBC “reporting” that wasn’t quite on the mark?

 

[The Bread Guy]

The Russians had seized the airport and shots had been fired at NATO troops who had approached / after the ‘meeting’ the Russians allowed NATO forces to the airport.
The articles don’t really do justice to the situation on the ground.

I know Canada has a history of underplaying/understating the confrontational bits of overseas missions, especially around those days and earlier, so there may be more to it than "lazy fuckers in the media" (although that ain't zero, either).

CBC? They were lazy back then re: military, and with the exception of one reporter, still tend to be.

What did the military tell the media? Was that even mentioned in the court proceedings? I like to think it would (I would have if I were defence counsel/friend of the accused), because it appears the Globe @ least had some details (likely based on a transcript, since it's placelined Edmonton but the court martial happened in Hull). I'm pretty sure if anything in the documentation said something like "after the drinks, the Russians let the NATO troops thru," the story may have gone from a party scolding to a "guy getting the job done gets boned" - maybe, anyway ...

 

[Eaglelord17]

You mean the same military (and Government) which hid Medak Pocket, would possibly lie about other events in the same era?

 

[The Bread Guy]

You mean the same military (and Government) which hid Medak Pocket, would possibly lie about other events in the same era?

A lie of omission? Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe ....

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Averted a shooting battle?

". . . instead of the serious meeting they had expected, the Russians had prepared what they call a dog-and-pony show, . . . followed by a vodka-fuelled meal."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/two-canadian-officers-return-from-kosovo-in-disgrace-1.173841

Two officers scolded for toasting with the Russians

Canadians say they had to exceed two-drink limit

www.theglobeandmail.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-soldier-fined-for-drinking-on-the-job-1.243910

I don't even see a problem with this. Looks like they used unconventional methods to achieve mission success

Gunboat Diplomacy?...... nah lets try Vodka Diplomacy!

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't even see a problem with this. Looks like they used unconventional methods to achieve mission success

Gunboat Diplomacy?...... nah lets try Vodka Diplomacy!

I think so too. In Bosnia we did some operations where we would cordon off villages and search them for weapons. We found that having one soldier sharing a couple drinks with the locals was very effective at deescalating the charged atmosphere.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think so too. In Bosnia we did some operations where we would cordon off villages and search them for weapons. We found that having one soldier sharing a couple drinks with the locals was very effective at deescalating the charged atmosphere.

This is what happens when you have Commanders thousands of miles away micromanaging situations they have no context of.

Sounds like a recipe for extreme levels of Military success

 

[Kat Stevens]

I think so too. In Bosnia we did some operations where we would cordon off villages and search them for weapons. We found that having one soldier sharing a couple drinks with the locals was very effective at deescalating the charged atmosphere.

There is a gravel pit just up the road from the camp in Kljuc. As a dump truck driver I was in and out of there all the time. Once my truck was loaded, I was not allowed to leave until I had taken a wee sip of the contents of the little purple genie bottle that was magically never empty.

 

[KevinB]

This is what happens when you have Commanders thousands of miles away micromanaging situations they have no context of.

Sounds like a recipe for extreme levels of Military success

The problem is when you have people that don’t understand the world isn’t Black and White, a local Commander need the freedoms to go into the Gray zone as needed to achieve the mission.
Heck made it be documented, and explained as needed, but allow for deviation from the rules as long as the actions are not malicious or evil.

 

[OldSolduer]

The problem is when you have people that don’t understand the world isn’t Black and White, a local Commander need the freedoms to go into the Gray zone as needed to achieve the mission.
Heck made it be documented, and explained as needed, but allow for deviation from the rules as long as the actions are not malicious or evil.

The Vietnam Syndrome I call it. The Pentagon telling the Green Beret or the commanders " thou shalt not hurt anyone too much"

 

[Underway]

The Vietnam Syndrome I call it. The Pentagon telling the Green Beret or the commanders " thou shalt not hurt anyone too much"

So what you're saying is shoot them directly between the eyes so they don't feel anything??

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't even see a problem with this. Looks like they used unconventional methods to achieve mission success

Gunboat Diplomacy?...... nah lets try Vodka Diplomacy!

I think so too. In Bosnia we did some operations where we would cordon off villages and search them for weapons. We found that having one soldier sharing a couple drinks with the locals was very effective at deescalating the charged atmosphere.

Agreed it was the right thing to do, but that's different than someone putting it on the public record, officially, that it was the right thing to do.

For all the reasons others have posted, as well as some we may not even know about

 

[dapaterson]

Cue Freddie Mercury singing "Another one bites the dust" as CO Regina has now been relieved as well.

Statement by the Commander of Canadian Fleet Pacific - Canada.ca

“Today, Commodore (Cmdre) David Mazur, Commander Canadian Fleet Pacific, has relieved Lieutenant-Commander (LCdr) David Dallin, the Commanding Officer of Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Regina of his duties."

www.canada.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The problem is when you have people that don’t understand the world isn’t Black and White, a local Commander need the freedoms to go into the Gray zone as needed to achieve the mission.
Heck made it be documented, and explained as needed, but allow for deviation from the rules as long as the actions are not malicious or evil.

That would require grownups to be in charge, to be able to determine if the right judgement was to be made.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Cue Freddie Mercury singing "Another one bites the dust" as CO Regina has now been relieved as well.

Statement by the Commander of Canadian Fleet Pacific - Canada.ca

“Today, Commodore (Cmdre) David Mazur, Commander Canadian Fleet Pacific, has relieved Lieutenant-Commander (LCdr) David Dallin, the Commanding Officer of Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Regina of his duties."

www.canada.ca

Regina was shore office so no more Stone Frigate command!

 

[OldSolduer]

You mean the same military (and Government) which hid Medak Pocket, would possibly lie about other events in the same era?

I'll speak to this.

One word: Somalia. The politicians (in and out of uniform) thought that Canadians could not accept the fact we had accomplished our mission but had to defend ourselves. Goes against the whole "Canadians are peacekeepers" bullshit narrative that we wore blue berets and everyone loved us.

I did write a paper for OPMEs to determine if peacekeeping was a fatal distraction. It isn't but the CAF has to be careful.