Class Action Suit against NVC & "Govt has no obligation to soldiers"

[PuckChaser]

From the article linked above:

But according to the letter obtained by CBC News, justice department lawyers are threatening to return the case to court if the veterans do not drop their litigation entirely and accept an undisclosed settlement proposed by the federal government.

The veterans' lawyer says in the letter that justice department lawyers are ready to shut down the lawsuit by reviving some of the arguments they initially used during the Harper government era to block the case.

The letter tells Liberal MPs that the government lawyers are arguing Canada does not have a social contract or covenant with veterans, and that a "scheme providing benefits cannot be said to amount to a deprivation merely because claimant views the benefits as insufficient."

So much for working "with" veterans. Where's the Liberal cheerleaders on this? The same Harper-era draconian tactics, but since its Trudeau do they get a free pass? The problem is when you campaign on being completely different from the old guys, you get a very small amount of latitude to do that before you become just like those old guys. The Liberals have 2 more budgets to fix the VAC issues. If they try to do anything on the 4th and final one, its a purely political move designed to save face and not lose support.

 

[ueo]

And anything else was expected?

 

[CountDC]

all part of the script.

Get sabres rattling and once enough attention is back on the subject in the press golden boy steps into the light for his photo op and saves the day.    Of course the blame will be that the lawyers were following a policy issued to them by the prior government and had nothing to do with the current one.  The new policy issued was lost in the mail.

 

[gryphonv]

My biggest question with this, where is that 'free education' part for all members that served that they campaigned on? I remember the press conference, but I have seen nothing announced with it.

 

[ModlrMike]

Hm. Harper had 10 years to fix this, which he did nothing of the sort.

Trudeau has had six months.  And he's STILL done more then Harper did during his ten years.

To be fair, we were in a "shootin' war" during a good portion of that time, and changing the rules mid-way would have been worse than letting things stand.

 

[PuckChaser]

My biggest question with this, where is that 'free education' part for all members that served that they campaigned on? I remember the press conference, but I have seen nothing announced with it.

White noise. You'd be praying for a unicorn if you're thinking we're getting a GI Bill.

 

[RobA]

I must have missed something.

Missed the budget announcement? I understand many don't trust the government, but I'm not going to believe that they would announce such specific benefits and then take it off the table.

The Trudeau goverent has been working in good faith. Like, for f's sake, he's been PM for 6 months.

He was willing to reinstate pensions THIS year, but the vets said wait, they wanted to do it right and not rush it. A wise choice I think. But it shows to me that the gov in Canada is acting in good faith.

 

[RobA]

You mean ELB, PIA and DA which were Tory announcements? Gotcha, thanks ABC. While they're fixing VAC maybe the ABC clowns can figure out how to wear a beret better than a BMQ candidate.

No, I mean the improvements to those things which were announced in March.

Harper introducing those things via the NVC is nothing to brag about. Frankly, Harper's passing of it is a bug part of the reason why ABC exists. Harper was a PoS

 

[PuckChaser]

So Trudeau gets credit for adding 15% to something Harper created that went from 0% to 75% after the Liberals signed off on NVC that was 0%? Good call.

 

[Teager]

Missed the budget announcement? I understand many don't trust the government, but I'm not going to believe that they would announce such specific benefits and then take it off the table.

The Trudeau goverent has been working in good faith. Like, for f's sake, he's been PM for 6 months.

He was willing to reinstate pensions THIS year, but the vets said wait, they wanted to do it right and not rush it. A wise choice I think. But it shows to me that the gov in Canada is acting in good faith.

I'm not sure about the pensions. Clearly the articles above state a settlement was drawn up for the Equitas group but it's not what they want. When the Equitas group handed them what they wanted the government said no. Hence the shaky ground. Mark Campbell also stated the last meeting he had with the Minister in regards to this issue did not go so well.

All I can say is the Liberals will have a lot of pressure on them for at least the next 2 years with the Invictus Games, 100th Anniversay of Vimy and Canada's 150th. This will keep an eye focused on the CAF and its Veterans.

The deadline to come to an agreement is May 15. So maybe next week we will see what the next move is going to be.

 

[kratz]

Small details like the "promise" for medical release to  cover up to 5 years of education.
Waiting....

 

[The Bread Guy]

The problem is when you campaign on being completely different from the old guys, you get a very small amount of latitude to do that before you become just like those old guys. The Liberals have 2 more budgets to fix the VAC issues. If they try to do anything on the 4th and final one, its a purely political move designed to save face and not lose support.

:nod:

 

[Occam]

So Trudeau gets credit for adding 15% to something Harper created that went from 0% to 75% after the Liberals signed off on NVC that was 0%? Good call.

Say what?

Trudeau gets credit for levelling out the playing field for all NVC lump sum recipients to a 100% = $360,000 lump sum award through a retroactive top-up payment.  This was an important step to ensuring equity for all NVC lump sum recipients prior to advancing on the return to having the option of a life-long pension scheme.  Had the top-up not been done, you would have had some NVC recipients who received LSA based on $250K in 2006, $298,587 (in 2013), and $310,378.59 in 2016 (I'm sure I missed some increases, but you get the point).  Now everyone will be in receipt of a LSA based on $360K regardless of when they received an award.  Level the playing ground, and then implement a change to a scheme permitting disability pensions or disability awards, at the choice of the recipient.  It makes perfect sense.

 

[George Wallace]

Trudeau gets credit for levelling out the playing field for all NVC lump sum recipients to a 100% = $360,000 lump sum award through a retroactive top-up payment.  This was an important step to ensuring equity for all NVC lump sum recipients prior to advancing on the return to having the option of a life-long pension scheme.  Had the top-up not been done, you would have had some NVC recipients who received LSA based on $250K in 2006, $298,587 (in 2013), and $310,378.59 in 2016 (I'm sure I missed some increases, but you get the point).  Now everyone will be in receipt of a LSA based on $360K regardless of when they received an award.  Level the playing ground, and then implement a change to a scheme permitting disability pensions or disability awards, at the choice of the recipient.  It makes perfect sense.

So if I read this right:

1. Recipients received LSA based on $250K in 2006;
2. Recipients received LSA based on $298,587 in 2013; and
3. Recipients received LSA based on $310,378.59 in 2016.

All of this seems to have been indexed to match rises in Cost of Living, Inflation, etc.

Now you seem to be saying that LSA is to be capped based on $360K with NO indexing to match inflation, etc.

Is that correct?

Does that not leave future recipients of LSA at a level much lower than those at the 2006 level after inflation and all factors are added up?  Is that really an improvement?

Sorry if my interpretation of this is wrong.

 

[Occam]

Well, you're correct in stating that between 2006 and present, there have been periodic increases to the LSA.  None of those increases have been retroactive, so the person who got theirs in 2006 got less than someone who got a more recent award.  The top-up will equalize that so that all LSA recipients will be on a level playing field effective 1 April 2017.  That sets the stage for an introduction to a choice between reverting to a life-long disability pension, or walking away with what you've received as a lump sum award at the 1 April 2017 rate.  As far as I know, the discussions are still ongoing to determine how those who opt to return to a disability pension will be dealt with (likely by withholding payments until they're "caught up"), as well as what an equitable lump sum award will be.  Given the current disparity between what a Pension Act recipient gets, and a LSA recipient gets is pretty large, the LSA would almost certainly need to be increased.  Most veterans realize that if you have an option of taking a LSA payment, that it needs to be somewhat less than a disability pension would be based on average life expectancy, age at date of award, etc.

 

[George Wallace]

I see this as a lose lose situation for those further down the road who may select LSA.

As stated:

1. Recipients received LSA based on $250K in 2006 dollars;
2. Recipients received LSA based on $298,587 in 2013 (to equal 2006 dollar amounts); and
3. Recipients received LSA based on $310,378.59 in 2016 (to equal 2006 dollar amounts).

And now LSA will be at $360K which will be worth less than 2006 dollar amounts when inflation is factored in, as the years pass.

If that $360K is to be indexed as you alluded to, then there really has been no change.

 

[RobA]

So Trudeau gets credit for adding 15% to something Harper created that went from 0% to 75% after the Liberals signed off on NVC that was 0%? Good call.

No. Harper gets ZERO credit l because the PIA, ELB and the DA are all garbage compared to what they replaced.

Once that happened, however, credit is given where shitty programs are made slightl less shitty.

Harper didn't make any of those less shitty. His only  improvement was a bullshit "critical injury benefit" that nobody f'n qualifies for. I was blown up in a LAV, medievac'd to Role 3 in a Blackhawk, and stayed there for 2 weeks.

And yet, I didn't qualify for it.

Trudeau has to play the cards he's dealt. He came in, offered to reinstate pensions, and was told vets wanted to wait. So instead of just saying "OK" he said "ok, and in the meantime, here's an improvements to the major programs".

The Justice dept wrangling is just politics. Lawyers negotiating. That's what they do. This shit goes on ALL the time, it's just that the Equitas guys decided to leak the negotiations as a way to put political pressure of the Libs, a wise strategy.

Trudeau hasn't been perfect. But he's been far better in 6 months for vets then Harper was in 10 years.

 

[RobA]

Say what?

Trudeau gets credit for levelling out the playing field for all NVC lump sum recipients to a 100% = $360,000 lump sum award through a retroactive top-up payment.  This was an important step to ensuring equity for all NVC lump sum recipients prior to advancing on the return to having the option of a life-long pension scheme.  Had the top-up not been done, you would have had some NVC recipients who received LSA based on $250K in 2006, $298,587 (in 2013), and $310,378.59 in 2016 (I'm sure I missed some increases, but you get the point).  Now everyone will be in receipt of a LSA based on $360K regardless of when they received an award.  Level the playing ground, and then implement a change to a scheme permitting disability pensions or disability awards, at the choice of the recipient.  It makes perfect sense.

I really don't think that's the case. I don't think the top will include COLA increases.

The link in the other thread put out by VAC gives an example of someone at 25% getting around $11,000. If COLA  was included, it would be more.

My guess is they didn't mention the year because it's irrelevant. IOW, all vets pensioned at 100% get the same top up, regardless of year they got the DA. All vets pensioned at 95% Vet the same, etc.

The maximum top up, IMO, is $50,000, which would be given to vets @ 100%. You can extrapolate down from there.

 

[PuckChaser]

No. Harper gets ZERO credit l because the PIA, ELB and the DA are all garbage compared to what they replaced.

How do you define adding 15% to garbage? Slightly better garbage? Congratulations, you've just successfully argued that Trudeau has done nothing other than adding Febreeze to garbage.

Come talk to me when he's actually done something of substance. Your Liberal saviours voted for NVC, and voted against the budgets that included an increase in services (PIA and ELB).

 

[Occam]

I see this as a lose lose situation for those further down the road who may select LSA.

As stated:

1. Recipients received LSA based on $250K in 2006 dollars;
2. Recipients received LSA based on $298,587 in 2013 (to equal 2006 dollar amounts); and
3. Recipients received LSA based on $310,378.59 in 2016 (to equal 2006 dollar amounts).

And now LSA will be at $360K which will be worth less than 2006 dollar amounts when inflation is factored in, as the years pass.

If that $360K is to be indexed as you alluded to, then there really has been no change.

I'm not seeing your line of thought.

LSA is meant to avoid indexing issues.  Yes, the amount has increased over the years to address inflation, etc., but those who received 2006 awards have (theoretically) had their LSA "indexed" through interest earned (assuming they banked it).  Bringing everyone to the same point (as though they had all been awarded their LSA effective 1 April 2017) levels the playing field, at which point you can introduce options for what they want to do from there.  Either revert to a monthly pension scheme in some fashion, or walk away from the table with some form of updated LSA that is fairer in comparison to what one receives over a lifetime of pension payments - rather than the huge gap you see now.  Neither of those schemes have been ironed out yet - but assuming you have a "decide by" date to elect pension/LSA that's not too far in the future, the field will remain level for everyone, and you live with the choice you made.