Civvy Supply Techs

[armyvern]

Vern,

If it makes you feel any better, I can say I haven't yet had a problem with any of your stores perosnnel, millitary or civilian.  In fact, as noted in another post elsewhere, I've found the staff in Base Supply here, be them Clothing, MSA or elsewhere to be unbelievably helpful.  And that was before I was a Sgt  ;D
MM

Thanks MM. And aren't you the same pers that I sent all the scrap clothing over to so that you could cut it off people??

 

[armyvern]

Vern,
I have only had problems with one civi at clothing stores in Gagetown no description, but I think he/she is a supervisor.

Yep he would be, no need to elaborate.

Last summer when I went to exchange a pair of combat pants, the person above told me that there were none my size in stock (I would not have a problem with it but he/she never looked at size). So I got back in the line and one of the other civvies exchanged them for me.

Ok...look at it from our side...we go in the bins for pants 50 or 60 times a day. We know whether the box has got stock or not. And the truck from Montreal to replenish us...only comes on Thursdays. So if I don't have any on Monday, I won't have any until at least Thursday afternoon.
Most of us Sup Techs don't need to ask your size either...we can tell by looking at you...it's our jobs. And if he's at the computer....he doesn't need to ask your size...it's showing up on his screen.

Hmmm...Last summer, there was a National restriction on exchanges in effect on cadpat(Feb til Oct) due to critical shortages of cadpat for deploying personnel while the contractor fixed the "excessive fade" problem. This was also published in AIG messages and Routine Orders. Unless you and the guys you know who got them exchanged were deploying....guess what? You lucked out.

Restrictions get placed on items for a reason. That's why I try to stress to my pers, to use their common sense, but follow the directives/messages/restrictions in place. The complaints and upset customers are kept to a minimum, because no one gets treated differently. It is something Clothing hears quite a bit of "well so and so got one, Why can't I?"

 

[armyvern]

Just wanted to advise, in all fairness, that reccecrewman has PMd me and to thank him for it.

Now just wait til my evil counterparts do your doc verification!!  > Just kidding.  ;D

 

[medicineman]

The very same.

MM

 

[Daidalous]

Here is a question for you Vern. I think I know the answer but.  Civvies get no more training than what they are taught from the section they are in correct?

 

[reccecrewman]

And thank-you Armyvern for taking the time to answer my question, your candor is appreciated as is your insight on the Supply world.

Regards

 

[Glorified Ape]

Last time I checked the MND was a civvy 

It's much rarer (pretty much to the point of non-existence) in the combat arms but civilians hold supervisor positions all throughout the Department of National Defence.  They manage both military and civilian pers, right up to the point of writing PERs.  They can be the equivalent of CO's of units (CFADs Bedford and Rocky Point come to mind), or the supervisor of a R&D section in Supply.  Depending on the level of competence, and more importantly, dedication the military members PER may be significantly guided by the next higher military member in the CoC.

Yes, I'm aware that the M/DND is civilian, what I was referring to are things like the QM, base administrative offices, etc. It just seems strange to me that military members would be held to account and "led" (at lower levels within the CF structure) by civilians. I guess it's just a respect thing - I'd have a hard time respecting the authority of someone, in a military work environment, that hadn't even done basic training. PSP staff even bug the crap out of me when they get all high-and-mighty (it was in St. Jean so I can't/won't speak of PSP staff in general and it wasn't all the staff, just a couple). I have no problem taking c--K from those with legitimate military authority, but I can't imagine it from some low-level civi bureaucrat working the BOR or what have you.

I'm glad to hear they're not as common in the combat arms. As you said, I'm sure there are advantages to be gleaned from the practice, it just tickles me the wrong way. I can understand the need for employing civilian specialists in areas where we don't/can't recruit enough or where recruitment isn't practical (such as if we only need one or two of them), but I don't think a QM supervisor or BOR clerk are positions that can't be filled from within the CF. Of course, I'm a noob so what do I know. ;D

 

[Daidalous]

From my experience ST 5 or civvy supervisors are generally retired military or people who have worked long and hard to be there.  I do not mind having a civvy for a boss, I found they usually give a rats ass about unit politics and advancing there own carear and care more about getting the job done.

 

[armyvern]

Generally,

Amongst the CSS trades there are distinct advantages to having DND Civilian employees in supervisory roles. This provides for 'continuity.' In the Supply trade we have a huge array of technical jobs which must be performed and many different sections which involve specialized training. IE pers MUST be Hazmat qualified to work in XXX section. But pers must have CTAT/ITAR quals to work in another section. Or PWGSC/Treasury Board quals to work in procurement section etc etc etc. If all mil Sup Techs had ALL the quals required to work in ALL Supply functions....we'd spend our entire career on course; we'd in essence be the 'experts' at everything....and nothing.
Mil Sup Techs receive general instruction in all sections during their QL3s/4s but do not receive the specialized trg for all sections. Rather...if a Mil Sup Tech is moved into the procurement cell, they then receive the Section 34/FMAS/PWGSC orientated training/courses that are required to be proficient in procurement. If they are moved to POL etc they then are sent on courses to receive their required control, packaging, transport of dangerous goods certification courses from Borden. Same with radiation specific training, or NBC decontamination trg, or LB quals. Mil sup techs move from section to section throughout their careers and civilains tend not to do this. That being said, the civilains in a specific section, are qualified to work in that particular section and are sent on the required courses for that section....ie hazmat courses etc. As the civvies tend to also have prolonged experience and the training courses for their particular section...they also tend to be the SME within it.

Let us not forget that the deployment ratio for CSS trades tends to be somewhat higher than that of combat arms trades (not in all instances). IE there are Sup tech, RMS, Sigs, medics on every roto of every tour in every mission area. While combat arms trades tend to deploy as a formed Unit only when their specific Unit deploys. I have many more tours than my 031 husband. By having a qualified civilian working a "support" role in Canada....a Mil Sup Tech is made available for deployment.

If a civilian wants to move sections or be upgraded in their rank structure, they go through a 'competition' process if they meet the pre-requisites. This competion is a series of written and hands-on exams that determines their ability and eligibilty to perform in the other section or at the next rank level. They are then listed in order of placement based on the outcome of this competition. If they rank #1, they get the new job/appointment and then receive the necessary courses/quals they do not already have....much the same as our Mil pers do when moved/promoted.

This also explains why you phone Supply to ask a question and the Sup Tech (civ or mil) says...I'm going to transfer your call to etc etc... If we haven't ever worked the specific section (or desk within a section) to which your question refers....we can't answer it. That'd be like asking someone who isn't LAV qualified to answer your "technical expertize" question about a LAV. My father retired as a Mil Sup Tech with 33 years in, he never worked in the R&D section or at clothing stores...we have upwards of 20 specialized areas within our MOC and we can't all be experts in all areas....therefore the civilian continuity and supervisors.

 

[loyalist]

Wow, it's almost like some mil supply techs are hard to work with, and some civilians...

I fail to see where the split is along the mil/civ lines. It has more to do with the people themselves...some people, either civvie or military just live to be dicks.

Given that the forces are straining for people and kit right now, having civilians fill a select group of roles within the CF is probably a good thing.

 

[armyvern]

Wow, it's almost like some mil supply techs are hard to work with, and some civilians...

I agree, generally you're either an *** or you're not. The uniform, or lack of it, nor the cap badge on the beret matter.