Civilians - coming onboard or leaving Canadian warship -

[Marinero2008]

What is a proper etiquette for a civilian when entering Navy ship or leaving after the visit? They do not salute the flag, do they?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

On a commissioned warship (or one thats in service) while it would be nice, its not expected a member of the general public to pay compliments. So in a nutshell don't worry about it.

If you have some sort of desire to do so, just pause for a second, and if male remove your headress. If the ship is open to the public, there is no need to ask permission to come aboard or anything of that nature.

 

[Neill McKay]

What is a proper etiquette for a civilian when entering Navy ship or leaving after the visit? They do not salute the flag, do they?

As a small nit-pick, nobody salutes the flag in a Canadian warship.  It's the quarterdeck that is being saluted.  Saluting the flag is a US custom.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

In laymans terms though, not many civilians know the difference between the quarterdeck or any other deck on the ship, so knowing they have to do something for where the Canadian Flag (ensign)is located is a good thing. So give credit where credit is due and worry less on the nitpicky details.

 

[Neill McKay]

In laymans terms though, not many civilians know the difference between the quarterdeck or any other deck on the ship, so knowing they have to do something for where the Canadian Flag (ensign)is located is a good thing. So give credit where credit is due and worry less on the nitpicky details.

Absolutely correct.  I was thinking more about third-party readers.  It's not unknown for a new NCdt or whatever to turn and face the flag to salute when going aboard a ship.  (In fact, one recruiting video shows a whole raft of them doing just that: get to the head of the brow, turn purposefully aft, salute, step aboard, next.)

 

[Bass ackwards]

It's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
I was under the impression that civilians, unless they are in a uniform of some sort (police, fire dept., etc), should not salute. Ditto for service personnel while in civvies.

Would asking permission to come aboard not be considered a courteous gesture? 

 

[Shamrock]

I was thinking more about third-party readers.

Where's the quarter deck?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Where's the quarter deck?

Next to the poop deck  ;D

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

It's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
I was under the impression that civilians, unless they are in a uniform of some sort (police, fire dept., etc), should not salute. Ditto for service personnel while in civvies.

Would asking permission to come aboard not be considered a courteous gesture? 

Look at it this way...if a ship is in its homeport, unless a civillian is with a member of the ships company they are not getting into the Dockyard. If a ship is visiting a port and its open to visitors then during those hours the public can tour at will. The permission to come aboard is from too many movies.

 

[Neill McKay]

Where's the quarter deck?

Typically at or near the stern of a ship.  The quarterdeck is traditionally where the Captain would tend to stand (in sailing ships) and is looked upon as having special significance in the "spirit" of a ship.  It is a little bit like the parade square in the army, a sort of "hallowed ground".

It's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
I was under the impression that civilians, unless they are in a uniform of some sort (police, fire dept., etc), should not salute. Ditto for service personnel while in civvies.

That's correct.  Service personnel in civilian clothes remove their hats on occasions when it would be appropriate to salute if in uniform.  Civilians keen on getting the details of protocol right may do the same (but will not attract much grief in most situations if they don't).

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Its also where the shrine was located back before the middle ages.

 

[dimsum]

During my time on the MCDVs, the brows were actually rigged on the foc'sle, not the sweep (quarter) deck.  When we crossed the brow and saluted, I don't recall anyone actually turning towards the quarterdeck.  I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Neill McKay]

During my time on the MCDVs, the brows were actually rigged on the foc'sle, not the sweep (quarter) deck.  When we crossed the brow and saluted, I don't recall anyone actually turning towards the quarterdeck.  I could be wrong, of course.

Nobody should ever turn; you just salute as you step aboard, in whatever direction you're naturally facing.

 

[Danjanou]

Its also where the shrine was located back before the middle ages.

Just how long have you been in? 8)

 

[Marinero2008]

.... Saluting the flag is a US custom.

Actually McKay, it's not only US custom. Some European Navies do this as well: e.g. in Polish Navy when coming on board or leaving the ship they salute the flag from 0800 hrs till sundown when the flag is lowered.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

During my time on the MCDVs, the brows were actually rigged on the foc'sle, not the sweep (quarter) deck.  When we crossed the brow and saluted, I don't recall anyone actually turning towards the quarterdeck.  I could be wrong, of course.

never had other nations sailors come onboard during your tenure there? I don't recall anyone else besides ourselves that don't stop turn and face the quarterdeck.

Danjanou:
Feels like several lifetimes sometimes. smartass

 

[cobbler]

It's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
I was under the impression that civilians, unless they are in a uniform of some sort (police, fire dept., etc), should not salute. Ditto for service personnel while in civvies.

Interesting. In the Aussie Navy, military personnel salute the gangway regardless. Whether you be in S1 ceromonials, or if you are drunk as a skunk returning from a big run ashore in some pretty grotty civvies.

never had other nations sailors come onboard during your tenure there? I don't recall anyone else besides ourselves that don't stop turn and face the quarterdeck.

Aussies, Kiwis, I would have thought the Poms, dont turn. Just keep walking and throw a goffa.

 

[Neill McKay]

Interesting. In the Aussie Navy, military personnel salute the gangway regardless. Whether you be in S1 ceromonials, or if you are drunk as a skunk returning from a big run ashore it some pretty grotty civvies.

Just in case I'm misunderstanding you, is it customary in the RAN for a member will salute when wearing civilian clothing?

Actually McKay, it's not only US custom. Some European Navies do this as well: e.g. in Polish Navy when coming on board or leaving the ship they salute the flag from 0800 hrs till sundown when the flag is lowered.

Yes, I was being a bit narrow in my thinking I guess.  There's surely a whole variety of "brow ceremonial" in the various navies of the world.

 

[Harley Sailor]

That's correct.  Service personnel in civilian clothes remove their hats on occasions when it would be appropriate to salute if in uniform.  Civilians keen on getting the details of protocol right may do the same (but will not attract much grief in most situations if they don't).

Very interesting that you should see it that way.  Having stood brow watches for the first 15 of my 30 year career I have never seen anyone cross the brow with a hat on that was not asked to remove it.  If they ever got onboard still wearing their hat the brow watch keeper would later hear it from the Officer of the day.

 

[MARS]

Here is the official procedure, taken from the Maritime Command Manual of Ceremony for HMC Ships, Submarines and NRDs:

http://maritime.mil.ca/english/refs/pubs/Repository/MANUAL_OF_CEREMONIAL_HMC_SHIPS_17Nov04.pdf

7. On board HMC Ships, individual compliments are paid and acknowledged in accordance with chapter 1, paragraph 2.c. and as amplified herein, such that:

a. when naval officers, either in civilian clothes or when not wearing headdress, are paid a compliment in the form of a hand salute, they shall acknowledge and return the salute by assuming the position of “Attention”;

b. when naval officers embark or disembark HMC Ships, it is customary to pay compliments to the ship, in the form of saluting the Quarterdeck (or in NRDs, the area designated as the ‘quarterdeck’ or ‘brow’). Personnel shall pay compliments to the Quarterdeck by facing the direction of the ship’s Ensign, assuming the position of “Attention” and saluting. While in plain clothes, personnel shall face the direction of the Ship’s Ensign and:

(1) assume the position of “Attention”, or
(2) while wearing a cap, assume the position of “Attention” and remove the cap;

c. when an officer embarks or disembarks from the ship, regardless of dress, the Quartermaster and OOD (if present) shall pay compliments by saluting;

If I read this correctly, it seems to imply that we should actually be turning to face the ensign. ???  I don't know why paragraph 7(b) starts out with the words "when naval officers..." and then changes to "personnel" in the second sentence, but I take it to mean "everyone".  Not sure how this is supposed to apply to the other elements...

Thoughts?