Civie career after RMC?
- Thread starter mavericknm
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Would it be appropriate to make a smart ass comment concerning all the meanings of the word RANK?
RANK
1. A relative position in a society;
2. To give a particular order or position to; classify. (v)
3. Strong and offensive in odor or flavor (adj)
Navy Rank- What exactly were you suggesting Strike?
And to all my Navy friends, no you do not smell that bad.
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On another note, kudoes to the fellow inquiring about life after RMC. Yes there is life after RMC. It is also important to understand the responsibility associated with life as an officer. It is a privilage to serve as one.
BBBBB, I quickly looked at your profile, I see you are doing a History BA. Not sure how you remember all those dates. It must be very challenging. Life at a Civilian university is very distracting, and you must be doing very well to stay focused on "sufferage movements in Precolonial America."
Fredrick- Sorry to hear about the fellows at Hogwarts who want to give up the best job in the world to espire to be glorified bus drivers. Maybe their prespective will change as they mature.
RANK
1. A relative position in a society;
2. To give a particular order or position to; classify. (v)
3. Strong and offensive in odor or flavor (adj)
Navy Rank- What exactly were you suggesting Strike?
And to all my Navy friends, no you do not smell that bad.
--------
On another note, kudoes to the fellow inquiring about life after RMC. Yes there is life after RMC. It is also important to understand the responsibility associated with life as an officer. It is a privilage to serve as one.
BBBBB, I quickly looked at your profile, I see you are doing a History BA. Not sure how you remember all those dates. It must be very challenging. Life at a Civilian university is very distracting, and you must be doing very well to stay focused on "sufferage movements in Precolonial America."
Fredrick- Sorry to hear about the fellows at Hogwarts who want to give up the best job in the world to espire to be glorified bus drivers. Maybe their prespective will change as they mature.
A
aesop081
Guest
Bograt said:
Bograt, you and i go back what ? 490 posts ?
Don't make me remind you that your "smart ass coments" priveleges were revoked, by me, a while back :threat:
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AESOP,
I need a 12 step program. I need to have a look over at the Family Resource Centre and inquire whether there is an empathy course available. If however I am restricted from using SAC (Smart Ass Comments), my posts would be limited to Aircrew selection, back hair remedies, and the Newfoundland Seal hunt.
Isn't there a Russian sub you should be harassing off BC?
I need a 12 step program. I need to have a look over at the Family Resource Centre and inquire whether there is an empathy course available. If however I am restricted from using SAC (Smart Ass Comments), my posts would be limited to Aircrew selection, back hair remedies, and the Newfoundland Seal hunt.
Isn't there a Russian sub you should be harassing off BC?
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Bograt said:
I thought the Russians were our friends now? (Why does that remind me of Terminator 2?)
Perhaps our little airdale friend should be chasing Chinese subs... or playing pranks on American subs, maybe?
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You know what, getting a free education and then leave after 5 years isn't bad at all. This is an investment for Canada. After all, we pay our education with a 5 years contract. Getting flight experience isn't bad eighter I think. I sure woud like one day to retire or release and fly airliners. Stop thinking about "Military, Military and only military". The day (after my contract of course) the military won't satisfy my needs (challenge, money, opportunities), I'll release/retire.
SupersonicMax
SupersonicMax
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If money is one of your principal interests in being in the CF, I'd advise you to put in your release papers ASAP. I'm sure there are mercenary outfits out there who'd be glad to provide you with lots of money for your military services.
Yes, it's good to have plans for after the military, but stating expressly that your main interest is in yourself and your bank account, reflects poorly on you. I know I'll probably move on to another job after my CF career is over, and I'm already thinking about it, but I'm not already planning it out and thinking "hmmm, I'll serve 5 years after RMC, get my BWC and go command a cruise ship so I can get lots of money AND live in nice sunny places."
Yes, it's good to have plans for after the military, but stating expressly that your main interest is in yourself and your bank account, reflects poorly on you. I know I'll probably move on to another job after my CF career is over, and I'm already thinking about it, but I'm not already planning it out and thinking "hmmm, I'll serve 5 years after RMC, get my BWC and go command a cruise ship so I can get lots of money AND live in nice sunny places."
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Frederik G said:
We all have our motivations for a career in the CF (e.g. challenge, lifestyle, money), and it is not up to you to decide whether or not someone should leave after their initial time commitment has been fullfilled. As long as the person performs his/her duties to a satisfactory standard, you should be indifferent to his/her career choices.
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And to elaborate on the different career options out there, I'll explain my experience and that of some of my colleagues (I'm an engineer in the civvy world). I paid my way through university as an NCO in the reserves. After graduating, I spent a year playing army games, before I found a company that valued my military experience highly (I work in the oilfield, which has many similarities to the military, culture-wise). I have worked with several other former reservists, including RETP types from RMC (I haven't met any ROTP types in my travels in this company, but they might exist). I have had similar opportunities to travel the world that military people experience (I've seen the middle of nowhere in several countries), and I've experienced some of the difficulties of military-style life- I get posted every two years or so, which makes a personal life something of a challenge. Compensation is good (higher than the military), but workload is also high (in 8 years in this company, I have never been the 9 to 5 type).
So to generalize, there are many companies out there that will value whatever military experience you have, IF you learned the valuable lessons that the military has to offer. If you're simply a ring-knocker with a check-box on his resume, companies that value the military experience and ethic will have you for breakfast. If you're interested in a "traditional engineering job" like a design engineer at Bombardier, those 5 years as a combat engineering officer will only really help you from a personal and management experience perspective. That's not nothing, but some companies (like Spar Aerospace, for example) won't care at all.
So to the originator of this thread, I'll ask the following (rhetorical) questions: What do you want to learn out of your military experience? Is the military the best place to learn those things? Is RMC the best place to learn those things? What sort of job do you want in 5 years? In 10 years? In 1 year? Will military experience lead you to that, or is it an interesting sidetrack? Perhaps you should pursue a reservist career while developing your engineering career fresh out of university. Or perhaps you should go for a reg force career. There are many different options out there, depending on the experience you're looking for.
So to generalize, there are many companies out there that will value whatever military experience you have, IF you learned the valuable lessons that the military has to offer. If you're simply a ring-knocker with a check-box on his resume, companies that value the military experience and ethic will have you for breakfast. If you're interested in a "traditional engineering job" like a design engineer at Bombardier, those 5 years as a combat engineering officer will only really help you from a personal and management experience perspective. That's not nothing, but some companies (like Spar Aerospace, for example) won't care at all.
So to the originator of this thread, I'll ask the following (rhetorical) questions: What do you want to learn out of your military experience? Is the military the best place to learn those things? Is RMC the best place to learn those things? What sort of job do you want in 5 years? In 10 years? In 1 year? Will military experience lead you to that, or is it an interesting sidetrack? Perhaps you should pursue a reservist career while developing your engineering career fresh out of university. Or perhaps you should go for a reg force career. There are many different options out there, depending on the experience you're looking for.
OK, RMC cadets, listen up: I'm about to dispense some hard-won wisdom that I wish to GOD somebody had given me back in the day.
When I was at CMR, most of our talk about degree programs, just like yours, was "what would we be able to do with it once our hitch was up". The focus was on getting a degree, doing our service to pay the degree off, and then going to work civvie-side and making the big bucks - and it sounds like this has not changed.
That's not a suprise; the way most of us were recruited was with the idea of subsidised education.
But here is the cold hard fact of the matter: THE PURPOSE OF RMC IS TO PREPARE YOU FOR A LIFETIME CAREER IN THE FORCES AS AN OFFICER. The Powers That Be, for whatever reason, go out of their way to avoid ever putting it that bluntly, but that AND NO OTHER REASON, is the purpose behind this institution.
If you are evaluating your education at RMC in terms of what you will do once your hitch is up, you have completely and utterly missed the point - which, sadly, places you in good company, given how poorly this has been communicated over the years.
Well, I'm telling you now: attending RMC is what builds the base for your future military career. You need to be taking advantage of all that this incredible institution offers you with an eye towards becoming the best possible officer, and with the foreknowledge that you are in for the long haul here. If you are thinking in terms of a free degree, a term of service, and then a civvie life, you are categorically in the wrong place.
I fell into the "free degree and a civvie job" trap, and it very nearly ruined me. I stuck with a trade I didn't really want (Pilot, then Signals) instead of the one that had been calling me (Armour) because my friends kept talking me out of the transfer with horror stories about combat arms officers being unable to find employment, as all that experience was useless civvie side. I stuck with a degree program I didn't like (Computer Science) instead of the one that I loved (MilStud) for the same reason - computer experts get employment, where Mil Studs do not - COMPLETELY and FOOLISHLY overlooking what should have been the primary goal all along; to become a career Armoured officer. Civvie-side employment isn't an issue if you never become a civvie - and having been one, let me tell you unequivocally that being a civvie sucks golf balls through garden hose.
I have very, very few regrets in life, but the one that haunts me regularly was how utterly STUPID I was to not transfer into Armour and MilStud the second I realized that that's what I really wanted to do. Everything else that has happened to me since has been a direct consequence of that impossibly poor decision, based 100% on forcasting my employment potential civvie-side.
(Although, the irony of it is that my employment civvie-side for the past dozen years has been built on all the computer science work I did at CMR; proving that the Universe has a sick and twisted sense of humour)
Do what you love, and the money will take care of itself. If you don't love the military, then you are in the wrong place.
DG
CMR '87-'91 18145
When I was at CMR, most of our talk about degree programs, just like yours, was "what would we be able to do with it once our hitch was up". The focus was on getting a degree, doing our service to pay the degree off, and then going to work civvie-side and making the big bucks - and it sounds like this has not changed.
That's not a suprise; the way most of us were recruited was with the idea of subsidised education.
But here is the cold hard fact of the matter: THE PURPOSE OF RMC IS TO PREPARE YOU FOR A LIFETIME CAREER IN THE FORCES AS AN OFFICER. The Powers That Be, for whatever reason, go out of their way to avoid ever putting it that bluntly, but that AND NO OTHER REASON, is the purpose behind this institution.
If you are evaluating your education at RMC in terms of what you will do once your hitch is up, you have completely and utterly missed the point - which, sadly, places you in good company, given how poorly this has been communicated over the years.
Well, I'm telling you now: attending RMC is what builds the base for your future military career. You need to be taking advantage of all that this incredible institution offers you with an eye towards becoming the best possible officer, and with the foreknowledge that you are in for the long haul here. If you are thinking in terms of a free degree, a term of service, and then a civvie life, you are categorically in the wrong place.
I fell into the "free degree and a civvie job" trap, and it very nearly ruined me. I stuck with a trade I didn't really want (Pilot, then Signals) instead of the one that had been calling me (Armour) because my friends kept talking me out of the transfer with horror stories about combat arms officers being unable to find employment, as all that experience was useless civvie side. I stuck with a degree program I didn't like (Computer Science) instead of the one that I loved (MilStud) for the same reason - computer experts get employment, where Mil Studs do not - COMPLETELY and FOOLISHLY overlooking what should have been the primary goal all along; to become a career Armoured officer. Civvie-side employment isn't an issue if you never become a civvie - and having been one, let me tell you unequivocally that being a civvie sucks golf balls through garden hose.
I have very, very few regrets in life, but the one that haunts me regularly was how utterly STUPID I was to not transfer into Armour and MilStud the second I realized that that's what I really wanted to do. Everything else that has happened to me since has been a direct consequence of that impossibly poor decision, based 100% on forcasting my employment potential civvie-side.
(Although, the irony of it is that my employment civvie-side for the past dozen years has been built on all the computer science work I did at CMR; proving that the Universe has a sick and twisted sense of humour)
Do what you love, and the money will take care of itself. If you don't love the military, then you are in the wrong place.
DG
CMR '87-'91 18145
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Oh man, you HAD them until....
OK, guys.....cut out that bit, photocopy it, and post it all over the College! The gist of his message is golden.
Now they're saying "see, civie-focused education is the right path."RecceDG said:
OK, guys.....cut out that bit, photocopy it, and post it all over the College! The gist of his message is golden.
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Journeyman said:
Is that an order?
"But DSM, Capt Journeyman ordered me to do it!"
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Piper said:
I don't think that's gonna fly. But then again, neither do our birds.
I still say a Captain ordered me to do it would work better. Or I could just do it at 4am so nobody will see me put them up.
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Stay in Ft Sauvé and stay quiet 1st year...
Max
Max
Well, *Verite*, Devoir, Valliance, eh?
But what I perhaps failed to mention is that my lackluster performance and eventual ejection from CMR (at the end of 3rd year, having done 4 years total) was *ENTIRELY* due to doing what I was *supposed* to do (to get civvie side employment) instead of what I *wanted* to do. (make a career of the combat arms)
And by so doing, outsmarted myself.
Had I followed my heart, instead of my head (and that took my friends working on me to change my mind back) I would have successfully completed the academic programme, gone on (one hopes) to a successful career, and never needed the civvie-side-focused education at all.
Put another way, by concentrating on civvie-side employment potential, I guaranteed I needed it.
DG
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Its been a while since I've checked the forum. I'd like to thank RecceDG and clasper for their insightful posts. Feels better to know that I'm not the only victim of free education syndrome. I'm not going to ask the military to change their recruiting program but it has been quite misleading and perhaps they are not getting the people they want but thats a different discussion. It looks like my out look will be a civillian career. Although I'm sure I will miss the experience of being an officer. I guess in the mean time I'll stick to cadets and watch. Anyway thanks for all the valuable discussion.
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If you aren't sure you want a military career, then attend a civilian university to get your education. If you decide after graduation that you want to join the military, then go DEO. Otherwise, don't take up a position that could be filled by an individual who is committed to serving in the CF after graduation.
I am trying to be fair with my comments but I confess that the notion that you have started comtemplating your civilian career before you have even been accepted to RMC disgusts me.
I am trying to be fair with my comments but I confess that the notion that you have started comtemplating your civilian career before you have even been accepted to RMC disgusts me.
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Well, RMC educate tomorrow's leader... For Canada in my opinion.. Not only for the military... This opinion is also shared by many people managing RMC too...
Max
Max
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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SupersonicMax said:
How did I guess that you are a RMC Cadet?
