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Chinese Military,Political and Social Superthread

The Liberals need to truly self purge. If they lose an election, they will be dropped hard. Look at voting trends in Canada in general.

If the Libs self purged and came back to the center, I would re-consider voting for them. Paul Martins brand of Liberals almost won me over for a vote 20 years ago.

Your right, 8 years in office and the corruption complacency has set in. I think there is a reason Marc Garneau is jumping ship.

As far as Pierre confrontational style? Damn, love it. Lets not prance and dance around blatant unethical behaviour. Call it out hard and deal with it. My mother was Welsh-Irish and was notorius for calling out my BS as a teenager. Trudeau and his brand of Liberals behave, frankly, like teens and they need to be called out.
Most of what you said I agree with. But I don’t like confrontational politics. Reminds me too much of Diefenbaker and some of the Tea Party people in the U.S. I think a politician should not only reach across party lines but occasionally step over those lines on occasion. Otherwise IMHO the country suffers.

Anyway, the influential Hill Times just came out with this piece. I would think that by now at least some Liberal MPs are getting very worried about their re-election prospect.

 
Why is he not listing CSIS and/or the sources as part of the lawsuit?
Could be a host of reasons. Who are the sources? No one really knows yet.

CSIS didn’t really release anything publicly as far as I know. Without knowing what CSIS disclosed and to who is still up in the air so far.

More questions than answers.
 
A great many have judged this MP before seeing actual evidence. We are speculating really.
 
Should be interesting. Global, being a serious media organization, would have had an army of editors and lawyers go through this report with a fine-tooth comb before releasing it for public consumption. But I have to admit to thinking after reading these stories “How are they going to avoid getting sued on this?”
 
Should be interesting. Global, being a serious media organization, would have had an army of editors and lawyers go through this report with a fine-tooth comb before releasing it for public consumption. But I have to admit to thinking after reading these stories “How are they going to avoid getting sued on this?”
It should be noted that the G&M and specifically Robert Fife opted not to run the same story because he/they thought the sources were very weak.
 
It should be noted that the G&M and specifically Robert Fife opted not to run the same story because he/they thought the sources were very weak.
And along those lines some interesting thougts on the whole thing. (Full disclosure I am not familiar with the author or his politics but a friend posted elsewhere).

 
... what is meant by ‘PMO?’ Spokespeople? Katie Telford? Others? ...
That right there. The "who" "told" "who" "what" thing.
🍿
A great many have judged this MP before seeing actual evidence. We are speculating really.
Still, an awful lot of people who routinely bash bought-and-paid-for media are happy to believe the same media saying things that make their particular bad guy look badder, no?
 
And along those lines some interesting thougts on the whole thing. (Full disclosure I am not familiar with the author or his politics but a friend posted elsewhere).


If they messed up on the fact checking here, I couldn't imagine what the fallout would be for Global. But it wouldn't be a net positive.
 
Still, an awful lot of people who routinely bash bought-and-paid-for media are happy to believe the same media saying things that make their particular bad guy look badder, no?
That train track goes both ways.

What is distinctly different about this LPC/China thing is the media rarely bites the hand that has been feeding them. And now they have.
 
If this keeps up, don’t count on Poilievre to get tough on Beijing.

Conservatives have softened China stance since riding losses in 2021 election, critics say

One of the organizers and the man who introduced Poilievre was Joe Li , a regional councillor who harshly criticized the tough China policies proposed in the Conservatives’ 2021 election platform, suggesting Canada should not publicly confront Beijing on human rights.

Sitting next to the party leader at a luncheon was Simon Zhong, a figure who has long been aligned with the Chinese government, once sitting on a Communist Party advisory body.

“You know what that means?” asked Juneau-Katsuya. “It means the Chinese have successfully scared and bullied the Conservatives.”

The York Region (Li) councillor and former federal candidate for the Conservatives told a 2021 news conference that Canada should not publicly criticize Beijing’s rights record, that Taiwan – self-governed and democratic – should reunite peacefully with Communist-controlled mainland China and that Canada had triggered the diplomatic feud that resulted in Canadians Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig being imprisoned for almost three years – by arresting Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou under a U.S. extradition request.

Zhong, photographed sitting next to Poilievre at one of the events, is Ontario co-chair of the National Congress of Chinese Canadians (NCCC), a group that for years has echoed Beijing’s talking points on a range of contentious issues, from China’s desire to annex Taiwan, to opposing Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement and promoting China’s Confucius Institute. He was once a delegate to the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, and appears in a video of NCCC members last year singing in celebration of the People’s Republic’s 73rd anniversary, concluding with the words “long live the Motherland (China).”
 
If this keeps up, don’t count on Poilievre to get tough on Beijing.

Conservatives have softened China stance since riding losses in 2021 election, critics say
This is where things get messy, because appealing to Chinese-Canadian voters, and getting soft on Beijing are not the same thing.

We as Canadians likely need to slow down a bit on the hand wringing when our politicians are seen in public with "bad people", as it's quite possible the politician didn't know who the "bad person" was.
 
If this keeps up, don’t count on Poilievre to get tough on Beijing.

Conservatives have softened China stance since riding losses in 2021 election, critics say
Certainly a lot of finger pointing is going on, and not necessarily pointed in the same direction. While I’m not a fan of Poilievre he certainly has a long way to go before he can equal Chrétien, Martin, Harper and Trudeau with the amount of damage they’ve inflicted on our politics and society.

Still, the rank and file Chinese-Canadians (the vast majority of whom truly want to be citizens of Canada…and not China) are a powerful voting block, one the Conservatives would be foolish to ignore. And that brings me to the following article in the National Post.


Regardless of whether one is Liberal or Conservative I hope that everyone will unite in insisting that those who knowingly surpressed the truth about Chinese influence should at least be reprimanded in some way and possibly face serious charges. As for Justin…maybe someone should send him a pair of red socks with Xi Jinping’s face on them. At least Poilievre is young enough as party leader to not have been involved too seriously in accepting Chinese influence. And maybe, just maybe, if he were to become PM he would do what O’Toole was trying to do by calling out the Chinese government and not Chinese Canadians for much of the mess we’re in.

Sorry Furniture, didn’t realize you had already posted that item.
 
What is distinctly different about this LPC/China thing is the media rarely bites the hand that has been feeding them. And now they have.
That's true - and I think they (generally) gnawed reasonably hard during the whole WE circus - but I'm still seeing the "bought & paid for media" moniker being bandied about from people who also point to the same media as proof that there's problems about.
 
The Liberals need to truly self purge. If they lose an election, they will be dropped hard. Look at voting trends in Canada in general.

If the Libs self purged and came back to the center, I would re-consider voting for them. Paul Martins brand of Liberals almost won me over for a vote 20 years ago.

Your right, 8 years in office and the corruption complacency has set in. I think there is a reason Marc Garneau is jumping ship.

As far as Pierre confrontational style? Damn, love it. Lets not prance and dance around blatant unethical behaviour. Call it out hard and deal with it. My mother was Welsh-Irish and was notorius for calling out my BS as a teenager. Trudeau and his brand of Liberals behave, frankly, like teens and they need to be called out.

Most of what you said I agree with. But I don’t like confrontational politics. Reminds me too much of Diefenbaker and some of the Tea Party people in the U.S. I think a politician should not only reach across party lines but occasionally step over those lines on occasion. Otherwise IMHO the country suffers.

Anyway, the influential Hill Times just came out with this piece. I would think that by now at least some Liberal MPs are getting very worried about their re-election prospect.


And yet.....

William Lyon MacKenzie, Joseph Howe, George Brown, Tommy Douglas, Diefenbaker, ..... Baldwin, Lafontaine, Neilson, Papineau .... as well as MacDonald, Laurier, Tulloch Galt and a host of provincial leaders

We do not lack for Canadians willing to make waves and make a difference. That is the essence of Canada. Constant change and accommodation.

In some senses I like to think that Canada is the country that Shaftesbury made - the one that described the value of collision and its ability to generate jewels from the polishing action of throwing the rough and the smooth in together. It is often forgotten that polishing does not occur without some Grit. The issue is, was and always has been, how much Grit. Too little and no change. Too much and too much aggravation, too much heat.

George Brown, a reformer, supported Baldwin, also a reformer. But other reformers agitated for more Clear Grit in the mix when they felt that Baldwin's "Country Party" had run its course and more change was still necessary. The Grits and the rouge party,


Canadian political usage of the word dates from 1849, when progressive members of the Upper Canada Reform Party were dubbed CLEAR GRITS and characterized as being "all sand and no dirt, clear grit all the way through." Led by George BROWN of the Globe, in the early 1870s the progressive members joined with Lower Canada reformers to create the Liberal Party, and the description of the few was applied to the many.

Baldwin had been a reformer in his own right, following the tenets of the Country Party of Britain


In Britain in the period from the 1680s to the 1740s, and especially under the Walpole ministry from 1730 to 1743, the Country Party was a coalition of Tories and disaffected Whigs. It was a movement rather than an organised party and had no formal structure or leaders. It claimed to be a nonpartisan force fighting for the nation's interest—the whole "country"—against the self-interested actions of the Court Party, that is the politicians in power in London. Country men believed the Court Party was corrupting Britain by using patronage to buy support and was threatening English and Scottish liberties and the proper balance of authority by shifting power from Parliament to the prime minister. It sought to constrain the court by opposing standing armies, calling for annual elections to Parliament (instead of the seven-year term in effect), and wanted to fix power in the hands of the landed gentry rather than the royal officials, urban merchants or bankers. It opposed any practices it saw as corruption.

The Country Party attracted a number of influential writers (such as Jonathan Swift, Samuel Johnson, and Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun) and political theorists. The ideology of the party faded away in England but became a powerful force in the American colonies, where its tracts strongly motivated the Patriots to oppose what the Country Party had cast as British monarchical tyranny and to develop a powerful political philosophy of republicanism in the United States.[1][2][3]

Historically, the name "Country Party" was used by what became the Whig Party itself in its initial stages, when headed by the Earl of Shaftesbury during the Exclusion Crisis of 1679-1681. Then, the term "whiggamor", shortened to "Whig", started being applied to the party – first as a pejorative term, then adopted and taken up by the party itself. The name "Country Party" was thus discarded – to be taken up later by opponents of the Whig Party itself, once it had come to dominate British politics following the Glorious Revolution.

Every now and then it is necessary to add another handful of Grit to the mix.

Abrasion is useful.
 
Should be interesting. Global, being a serious media organization, would have had an army of editors and lawyers go through this report with a fine-tooth comb before releasing it for public consumption. But I have to admit to thinking after reading these stories “How are they going to avoid getting sued on this?”

They probably aren't going to avoid the suit. But for any "serious" medium it has to be considered as the cost of doing business.
 
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