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China launches ICBM-capable submarine: Pentagon

Bograt said:
They certainly are the "ones to watch." Immediately after the 2000 election there was unfortunate incident with the EP-3. Last month, a Chinese sub "accidentally" wondered into Japanese waters. Asian region will be the place of focus in the coming decades (India, Pakistan, China, North Korea, Japan, Indonesia). No wonder the Roos are are investing in their capabilities.

Its probably narsasitic to quote myself, but I just saw this on Globe and Mail; http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041210.wjapan1210/BNStory/International/

Japanese defence plan signals end to pacifism

Associated Press  E-mail this Article 
Tokyo â ” In a shift away from its postwar pacifism, Japan's government overhauled its defence guidelines Friday, easing an arms-export ban and singling out North Korea and China as security threats.

The overhaul, which also allows the government to develop a missile-defence program with the United States, has raised concerns about a slow erosion of the pacifist society Japan built after the Second World War.

The opposition Social Democratic Party, one of the smallest parties in parliament, criticized the government for removing self-imposed controls on military development.

The changes also have been watched uneasily by some of Japan's Asian neighbours, who suffered under Tokyo's expansionist policies in the first half of the last century. The guidelines sought to allay such fears, saying Japan's military would not go on the offensive.

â Å“Our country, under our constitution, will adhere exclusively to self-defence,â ? the report said. â Å“Following our policy of not becoming a major military power that would pose a threat to other countries, we will secure civilian control.â ?

The plan, approved in a cabinet meeting Friday, also calls for Japan to participate in international peacekeeping missions, underscoring Tokyo's efforts to play a global security role that better matches its economic strength.

The revised guidelines fits with Japan's decade-long effort to increase security co-operation with the United States. The pro-U.S. government on Thursday approved a one-year extension of the military's humanitarian mission in Iraq.

The government also authorized an ease to a long-time ban on arms exports to allow for the missile defence program with the United States. The guidelines cited the threats posed by North Korean missiles, China's military buildup and terrorism.

â Å“This is about ensuring security and dealing with new threats as the times change,â ? Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi told reporters.

Pyongyang became one of Tokyo's biggest security worries after it test-fired a long-range ballistic missile over Japan in 1998, prompting Tokyo to begin researching missile defence. North Korea also has an active nuclear-weapons development program.

Japan has maintained an arms export ban since 1976. Chief cabinet secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda said the government, however, would make exceptions to pursue missile defence with Washington for security purposes.

Ken Jimbo, director of the Japan Forum on International Relations, said the plan signalled that Japan's defence policy was adjusting to a post-Cold War world.

â Å“It's epoch-making that the guidelines now call for a flexible, multifaceted military instead of the stiff military foundation that's been in place until now,â ? Mr. Jimbo said.

The guidelines vowed to maintain the current policy of not making or possessing nuclear weapons. Japan is the only country to have been attacked with nuclear weapons, when the United States twice hit the country in 1945.

The new defence outline, which covers from 2006 to 2014, also singles out China as a security concern, pointing out that Beijing has expanded the range of its military activities at sea and has been modernizing its naval and air force.

Mr. Hosoda played down the reference.

â Å“It does not mean that we consider China a threat,â ? Mr. Hosoda said at a news conference.

Japan's navy went on alert last month when a Chinese submarine was detected in the country's waters between the southern island of Okinawa and Taiwan. Japan says that China apologized, but tensions remain high.

Mr. Jimbo said the new guidelines would likely irritate Beijing but that Japan would also be seeking to deepen ties with its neighbour even as it follows the plan.

â Å“China will undoubtedly express displeasure with the guideline revisions, but Japan can also co-operate with China by expanding exchanges,â ? Mr. Jimbo said. â Å“It's a two-pronged strategy.â ?

The new guidelines followed Tokyo's extension Thursday of its largest foreign military operation since the Second World War. Japan currently has 550 ground troops in Iraq on a humanitarian mission to purify water and rebuild infrastructure. The mission follows the dispatch of the navy to provide logistical support to forces fighting in Afghanistan, a mission launched in 2001.

Acknowledging the budget pressures Japan will face as its population rapidly ages, the guidelines call for cutting the number of ground forces and tanks. The ruling Liberal Democratic Party on Thursday approved a 3.7-per-cent cut in defence spending.

 
I have long been an admirer of the JMSDF. When operating under their own air cover, I don't think any other country in the region, and possibly the rest of the world, could take on the Japanese and win, besides the US. The legislative changes coming to Japan simply reflect what is already established as a fact- the Japanese people are increasingly casting aside the remnants of US influence on their defensive posture. I do not think the Japan of 'empire' will return, but they will certainly act in their own interest against a foreign power should they feel they have to.

The main concern, IMHO is if China and Japan go head to head in a conflict, will China act irrationally and use WMD, or will Japan pre-empt them somehow? China already is an irrational country, and is constrained only by it's desire to keep up the pretense of a non-aggressive capitalist heaven while falsely promising to rise to the level of an emerging democracy until such time as they think they can move against a target nation with impunity. 

Japan has much to fear and much to lose without putting in place the necessary constitutional mechanisms to enable the reorientation of national security policies.  At least they have the will to do so ...

 
Whiskey,

How long do you suppose that the Communist Party in Beijing can maintain hegemony over the rest of China?  Between internal ethnic strife (not all Chinese consider themselves ethnically the same), competition between provinces with poorer ones envying richer capitalist ones and Beijing, as well as the rise of a bourgeoisie (even if small and often consisting of "corrupt" Party Members).

Does Taiwan serve the Chinese Communist Party in the same way that the Falklands (Malvinas) served Argentina?  A focus around which discontented domestic elements can rally in common cause?
 
As an aside, I was going through the July/August issue of Foreign Affairs and I read an article entitled "The Myth Behind China's Miracle".

Pretty good, the author does a good job of showing how China is not the economic powerhouse that some like to paint it as due to the fact that:

1) A huge percentage of the successful business in China is Wholly Owned Foreign Enterprise.

2) The all-encompassing nature of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has ensured that no horizontal bonds are drawn between different areas of the domestic market; rather, all links are vertical (between local business and the local Party apparatchik).  It points out that the authoritarian regime has ensured that the Chinese market is actually a hodge-podge of small markets that thrive off nepotism rather than competition.

Sure, it seems unlikely that conflict will break out now due to the fact that the money's a flowin' and China is making efforts to conform to the international system (joining the WTO), but that doesn't mean everything is bound to turn out good.  China is a vast and ancient civilization with a real sense of itself and of its place in history.  Trouble could easily brew up if sudden domestic "meltdown" occurred for some reason.

They don't want to make our cheap toys and shoes forever....
 
Hmmm ... I wonder what DND could have bought with $19.7 million ... ?
Yup - Canada is subsidising the Chinese military, and neglecting our own
(and thereby allowing the Chinese government to abdicate its' responsibility to the Chinese people, too):

Canada helps small farmers in China adapt to global markets

(2003-04) News Release
January 9, 2003


BEIJING (China) â ” The Honourable Susan Whelan, Minister for International Cooperation, today announced that Canada, through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), will contribute almost $19.7 million to help small farmers in China adapt to global markets.

"Canadian expertise and technical assistance will help maintain the incomes and livelihood of small farmers affected by China's entry to the World Trade Organization," Minister Whelan said. "Canada is committed to supporting China in its efforts to build an environmentally safe, quality agri-food system that will benefit all Chinese. Canada is helping to make a difference in rural agriculture around the world."

Canada strongly supports China's accession to the World Trade Organization. It is part of China's broad agenda of developing the rule of law to ensure fair and equal treatment before the courts â ” for both people and companies. Accession will support and strengthen the economic reform process in China.

Today's initiative, which will be implemented by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, is designed to provide training and technical assistance to Chinese decision-makers and institutions to implement progressive changes to the agricultural system in China. Canadian knowledge and expertise will help China ensure that its country's food safety and quality standards comply with World Trade Organization regulations. This initiative will also help small farmers increase their productivity, provide quality food products and access marketing tools to increase their income.

"We are committed to sharing our expertise with countries like China to help build their capacity to fully participate in the global trading system," said Agriculture and Agri-Food Minister Lyle Vanclief.

Minister Whelan made the announcement during a signing ceremony at China's Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Co-operation. The Minister is visiting Bangladesh and China from January 5 to 12.

This initiative builds upon two decades of Canadianâ “Chinese cooperation in the agriculture sector.

Funding for this initiative was provided for in the December 2001 federal budget and is therefore built into the existing fiscal framework.
 
Kirkhill said:
How long do you suppose that the Communist Party in Beijing can maintain hegemony over the rest of China?   Between internal ethnic strife (not all Chinese consider themselves ethnically the same), competition between provinces with poorer ones envying richer capitalist ones and Beijing, as well as the rise of a bourgeoisie (even if small and often consisting of "corrupt" Party Members).

Remove "Chinese", substitute Canada. Remove Communist Party, substitute Liberal Party of Canada, remove Beijing and substitute Toronto/Ottawa as appropriate. Then, add in extremely strong military force with no quams about maintaining the status quo for the government. Fortunately, the last element doesn't apply here, but it sure does over there. Nevertheless, some dynasty's seemingly last forever.

Time for another glass of Black Bush.*  Cheers.

edit: original post said: "Time for another 3 fingers of Black Bush. Cheers" however, since I married a blonde .... :-X
 
Jeez Whiskey, git yer heid oot the bottle.

Yer ower depressing efter a drink or twa.

Not as long as the Liberals surely ;D
 
whiskey 601 said:
Remove "Chinese", substitute Canada. Remove Communist Party, substitute Liberal Party of Canada, remove Beijing and substitute Toronto/Ottawa as appropriate. Then, add in extremely strong military force with no quams about maintaining the status quo for the government. Fortunately, the last element doesn't apply here, but it sure does over there. Nevertheless, some dynasty's seemingly last forever.

Call me Don Quixote, but ... I e-mailed my Member of Parliament last night (heck - nothing ventured, nothing gained - maybe he'll hire me ... chuckle - after all, I'm a fellow goalie ...)
 
Between the millions we send to "deserving" nations like Communist China and Russia, and the money we waste on various internal boondoggles, we could bulk up our defense spending and still lower taxes. I suppose we will have to wait until after the revolution (Whats that? we're supposed to defend the establishment against the revolution....).
 
What is China doing that would cause us concern in regards to our military capabilities?  Do they not have a right to flex their muscle when it comes to national interests and security in their own back yard like the Americans, who for that matter considered all parts of the world their national interest and security?

IMHO I think we have more to fear of the Americans affecting our national interests than China.  What happens when America decides their going to take our fresh water or use our airspace for whatever reason they want.  They've already shown the world they have no regard for International Law or trade disputes, and the people who don't kowtow to reinforce thier interests are discredited i.e., Hans Blix & Mohamed ElBaradei.
 
I havn't noticed American missiles landing just outside Halifax Harbour during the last election, nor to members of the 10th mountain division roll across the border unannounced and univited. All nations "flex their muscles" to the extent they are able (Canada seems to have MS or some other paralizing disease), but dollars and rhetoric are to be preffered over raw displays of power.

The actual use of power can also be qualified: are you using it to steal resources or threaten entire populatons to vote your way; or are you liberating populations and returning their resources to them?
 
krugan said:
They've already shown the world they have no regard for International Law or trade disputes, and the people who don't kowtow to reinforce thier interests are discredited i.e., Hans Blix & Mohamed ElBaradei.

Good grief. And China is a paragon of Human Rights too.
 
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