Chile's General Pinochet 'dead' (BBC News)

[geo]

well.... not everyone has the same common defenition of :
Human Rights,
Democracy, or
Freedom.

 

[Kirkhill]

well.... not everyone has the same common defenition of :
Human Rights,
Democracy, or
Freedom.

Or of Major Baker's favourite word "IS".

Language: Guaranteed employment for lawyers, lexicographers, librarians and journalists.

"Let the deed shaw"

 

[time expired]

I do not have much info. on how evil a dictator  Pinochet was, however 3000 murdered,
BBC figures,makes him small potatoes as dictators go, trying not to be too cynical here,
but as Allende was a darling of the Left and of course the media, makes me very wary about
what I have read or watched on TV about this story.I just go back and look at the heroes
of the left during my lifetime,Josef Stalin,Mao,Castro,I seem to remember Mabutu being
touted by the left as a viable replacement to that evil man Ian Smith and was feted in the
UK on one of his earlier visits. So it seems to me how one judges Pinochet depends more
on your political stance than any facts that have been presented.
                                      Regards

 

[Brad Sallows]

>there is always the old addage: "beware what you wish for"

Or as Kirkhill might say, "Beware what you fish for".

Pinochet's legacy should be measured on two distinct grounds: the coup, and his governance after the coup.  He may very well have saved Chile from a worse fate and then failed himself to do a particularly good job in the wake of his finest moment.

 

[Kirkhill]

>there is always the old addage: "beware what you wish for"

Or as Kirkhill might say, "Beware what you fish for"....

There really needs to be a "cringeworthy" emoticon.

 

[TCBF]

"I really hope you weren't serious. Because if you were, thats in the top ten list for worst things ever said on this site"

- Oh YEAH?  Okee-dokee Mr. Expert, what are the other nine? 

Hmmmnnn?

- Lets let LEFT balance right, and make a bunch of 'Pinochet 'T Shirts to balance all of the Ernesto 'Che' (Psycopathic Murderer who starved the wives and children of defecting Cuban pilots in bamboo cages on the Islas del Pinos) Guavera T-shirts all of our Commie indoctrinated university 'youth' like to wear. 

Tom

 

[xFusilier]

Lets let LEFT balance right, and make a bunch of 'Pinochet 'T Shirts to balance all of the Ernesto 'Che' (Psycopathic Murderer who starved the wives and children of defecting Cuban pilots in bamboo cages on the Islas del Pinos) Guavera T-shirts all of our Commie indoctrinated university 'youth' like to wear.

It'll never happen if for no other reason that on this very site: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21566.0.html that berets have more of a certain je ne sais quoi than forage caps, among other reasons.

 

[a_majoor]

But of course when Castro dies, how many obituary writers will remember the last line of this piece?

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2006/12/the_right_wing_.html

The Right Wing Castro and why I don't defend him
Read Peter Hitchens only in The Mail on Sunday

I don't defend Augusto Pinochet, the late dictator of Chile. He was a wicked man who tortured and murdered his opponents and - in a law-governed, constitutional democracy - chose illegal and undemocratic methods. Whatever good he may have done, which is in any case open to serious question, does not excuse these unforgiveable actions. So why won't the Left say the same simple thing about Pinochet's socialist twin, the Cuban torturer and mass murderer Fidel Castro?

As I bicycled past Hyde Park Corner the other day, I was upbraided by another cyclist who said I was unfair about Cuba and - when I called him a sucker for the regime - absurdly accused me of being a toady of the British 'regime'. (So far as I could work out before the lights changed, this was because, despite being as rude as I can be about our major political parties, critical of the Queen and Prince Charles, I support the institution of monarchy. I really didn't have the whole afternoon to spare to put him right about this).

He really couldn't grasp the simple point that, whatever he might believe about Castro's alleged (and dubious) achievements in health and education - the evidence for which comes mainly from Cuban official statistics which cannot be independently checked - Castro is a monster.

He has reversed the verdicts of courts when he didn't like them, so as to punish opponents. He imprisoned his old comrade Huber Matos, who just wanted to go home quietly. His regime began with show trials and mass shootings and continued with repression and censorship and intolerance, which have gone on ever since. For a long period he persecuted homosexuals. He has arranged to be succeeded by his brother, which the left normally would denounce as a sort of sideways hereditary monarchy. His prisons are a disgrace. Torture is used. Interestingly, Pinochet on occasion put in a good word for Castro, and Castro was - reasonably - perturbed when Pinochet was arrested, seeing this as a danger to himself.

The honest thing, whatever your politics, is to condemn them both. I do. What about you?

 

[ROTP Applicant]

The man will be remembered as a true hero who saved a western country from communism.  All esle is Stalinist revisionist history engineered by the Allende-ist 'losers' and their fellow travellers in the media.

Tom

"I really hope you weren't serious. Because if you were, thats in the top ten list for worst things ever said on this site"

- Oh YEAH?  Okee-dokee Mr. Expert, what are the other nine? 

Hmmmnnn?

- Lets let LEFT balance right, and make a bunch of 'Pinochet 'T Shirts to balance all of the Ernesto 'Che' (Psycopathic Murderer who starved the wives and children of defecting Cuban pilots in bamboo cages on the Islas del Pinos) Guavera T-shirts all of our Commie indoctrinated university 'youth' like to wear. 

Tom

Where did Che come into all of this? Yes, the far left extremists may have commited worse crimes than those of Pinochet. However, that still does not justify his actions. Read up on the Villa Grimaldi, the National Stadium and Chacabuco concentration camps and then reconsider your ridiculous claim that he will be remembered as a "true hero."

 

[geo]

saw a pic in today's paper.  Chile has a new Capt Augusto Pinochet in it's armed forces.... wonder if he has aspirations of grandeur?

 

[Yrys]

Chile HAD a captain Pinochet, grandson of the other. He was expelled
because he gave an unauthorised speech during his grandfather funeral.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6175455.stm

The commander of the Chilean army, Gen Oscar Izurieta, said Captain Pinochet
had committed a grave error, leaving no choice but to discharge him.

This is a grave error and we are certain that the army will know what to do
President Michelle Bachelet

However, the family maintained that Captain Pinochet had already been
considering leaving the army because he had felt uncomfortable.

 

[Dare]

well.... not everyone has the same common defenition of :
Human Rights,
Democracy, or
Freedom.

That's true, not everyone has a dictionary.

 

[geo]

Dare that is true and false at the same time

Some have Wiki based dictionaries that allows them to customize the dictionary.

Also,  talk to the US about democracy VS talking to a Canadian about democracy.... they will be similar BUT they won't be the same.

Human Rights.... ditto
Freedom......Ditto

 

[TCBF]

"then reconsider your ridiculous claim that he will be remembered as a "true hero." "

"The honest thing, whatever your politics, is to condemn them both. I do. What about you?"

- Both.  I do condemn them both, and both will be remembered as "true heroes" by their respective followers.  The claim is not ridiculous. In any case, Chile recovered from Pinochet far faster than it would have recovered from Allende. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Also,  talk to the US about democracy VS talking to a Canadian about democracy.... they will be similar BUT they won't be the same.

No kidding.  Down there, they elect their senators.  I'm waiting for the Canadian "progressive democracy" community to wind itself up in fits over how to oppose the government's new senate legislation.

 

[The Bread Guy]

- Lets let LEFT balance right, and make a bunch of 'Pinochet 'T Shirts to balance all of the Ernesto 'Che' (Psycopathic Murderer who starved the wives and children of defecting Cuban pilots in bamboo cages on the Islas del Pinos) Guavera T-shirts all of our Commie indoctrinated university 'youth' like to wear. 

Sort of like "Kill the whales, and seals too" t-shirts?     How's this......

 

[TCBF]

Darn it Tony, we need a snappy graphic silksceen like the famous 'Che in a beret' one the comrades flout so much.  Think 'Propaganda 101.' 

Tom

 

[The Bread Guy]

How's about these, Tom?  Let me know, and I'll send you the t-shirt of your choice....  ;D

 

[TCBF]

Do they come in tan?

;D

Tom

 

[The Bread Guy]

More like this?  If you'll wear it, PM me with a snail mail address, and I'll send you a white one (can't do the tan so well from the ink jet)....