Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

[btrudy]

Honestly the culture of the Army is different. DO you have parades just for the sake of having them?

We paraded every morning to see if everyone was there and not off somewhere else. It was also to pass on relevant information to the troops.

So "this meeting could have been an e-mail" in parade form?

Parades aren’t burdensome unless they’re turned into something unreasonable. A town hall or an AMA, is also a parade, just that people don’t think of it as such, but it is.

Ummm... How exactly are you defining "parade" here? OED uses "a formal occasion when soldiers march or stand in lines so that they can be inspected (= looked at and approved) by their officers or other important people", which is rather in line with how I'd define it.

A town hall, where you have people go sit down in a room together and listen to a dude talk, maybe ask a few questions, would not be something that I'd ever call a parade.

 

[OldSolduer]

So "this meeting could have been an e-mail" in parade form?



Ummm... How exactly are you defining "parade" here? OED uses "a formal occasion when soldiers march or stand in lines so that they can be inspected (= looked at and approved) by their officers or other important people", which is rather in line with how I'd define it.

A town hall, where you have people go sit down in a room together and listen to a dude talk, maybe ask a few questions, would not be something that I'd ever call a parade.

We get it you don’t like parades.

I’ll make this simple: in the infantry we do strange things like account for our soldiers, ensure they are tasked trained etc. I’m sure you do the same only differently.

The infantry is a different culture from the rest and even within the infantry customs and traditions vary.
Give it a rest

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So "this meeting could have been an e-mail" in parade form?

One of the funniest and, concurrently, stupidest things anyone has said on here.

You obviously need some Regt/Bn time.

Ummm... How exactly are you defining "parade" here? OED uses "a formal occasion when soldiers march or stand in lines so that they can be inspected (= looked at and approved) by their officers or other important people", which is rather in line with how I'd define it.

A town hall, where you have people go sit down in a room together and listen to a dude talk, maybe ask a few questions, would not be something that I'd ever call a parade.

MS Middlemiss shared the same (wrong, mind you) opinion on what constitutes a parade in the CAF. I’ve attended more than 1 town hall that was deemed a parade.

Para 5, if you don’t like long reads:

Middlemiss R. J. (Master Seaman), R. v. - Chief Military Judge

Get quick, easy access to all Government of Canada services and information.

decisia.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca

Are you a CIC Officer by any chance? A very, very junior one?

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . How exactly are you defining "parade" here? . . .

Parade. A requirement to be somewhere, at a specific time, to do a specific task.

e.g., in the Militia, "Parade Night" means the scheduled training session; for drivers, "First Parade" means checking fuel and lubricant levels, tire pressure, vehicle cleanliness and damage, etc before starting a driving task; "Orders Parade" means a Summary Trial, okay there is usually some drill involved in that one; . . .

 

[btrudy]

My dudes, the thread is a discussion on the ceremonial aspects associated with a change of command.

I mean, I get that sometimes people for some reason use the term "parade" to mean "a mandatory event", even if the event in question doesn't at all resemble the actual definition of the word parade (which, for what it's worth, also doesn't carry the connotations of "a mandatory event").

But in a discussion on this particular topic, using a completely different definition of the term is just going to throw things off on a tangent.

Parade. A requirement to be somewhere, at a specific time, to do a specific task.

e.g., in the Militia, "Parade Night" means the scheduled training session;

Case in point here I guess, considering that in the militia, "Parade Nights" aren't mandatory, and you can miss a reasonable number of them without being declared NES.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Parades have their time and place, it's part of the military experience. But to be culmination of a clear out process for an individual seems a waste of resources to me.

If the infantry have nothing better to do then go ahead dig in and enjoy but some of us have work to do.

As an aside we took a week to prepare for a CoC parade at CFJSR. But the week was a silly week too... Lots of parade practice and sports.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some might not remember this, but the RCAF seems proud to include this under the Showcasing the RCAF folder. This was definitely deemed worth the effort and hours and costs.

Public Duties (UK) - Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

For the first time in its 94-year history, the Royal Canadian Air Force sent a contingent to the United Kingdom to perform Public Duties for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

www.canada.ca

True, and good show on them, but I'd be curious to know more about how they got into the rotation for that duty - does someone in Big Air Force "ask", or does someone above Big Air Force say "it's your time, folks," or some other mystical bureaucratic process?

Not that they shouldn't have a go, by any means, but the highlighted fact alone would be proof of the lower priority more-elaborate drill/ceremonial has in the Air Force ....

For the first time in its 94-year history, the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) sent a contingent to the United Kingdom to perform Public Duties for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II ...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Parades have their time and place, it's part of the military experience. But to be culmination of a clear out process for an individual seems a waste of resources to me.

If the infantry have nothing better to do then go ahead dig in and enjoy but some of us have work to do.

As an aside we took a week to prepare for a CoC parade at CFJSR. But the week was a silly week too... Lots of parade practice and sports.

In the army I think it has it's roots in whether the troops were willing to follow said CO, in a way test to see their loyalty and confidence in the new CO.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In the army I think it has it's roots in whether the troops were willing to follow said CO, in a way test to see their loyalty and confidence in the new CO.

Want to have a test ? Make it optional.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Want to have a test ? Make it optional.

Never give soldiers an option. Same thing with "treating them like adults."

Treat soldiers like soldiers. Soldiers receive direction and orders and they are expected to follow them (unless theyre unlawful, obviously). Every soldier in the Battalion from Private to the CO is expected to follow and obey orders from "DEU 1A, 0830hrs" to "Charile Team, take that trench."

That obedience is formed and honed on the square and there is no optional choices when you're ordered to turn left or right.

 

[Quirky]

If the Army has no better things to do, they could very well be gainfully employed as Wing Auxiliary Security Forces.

I’ve always wondered who the Primary Security Forces are. MPs and 60-70 year old Commissionaires?

 

[dapaterson]

The new NDHQ at Carling Campus has frequent patrols by an aggressive auxiliary force.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Never give soldiers an option. Same thing with "treating them like adults."

Treat soldiers like soldiers. Soldiers receive direction and orders and they are expected to follow them (unless theyre unlawful, obviously). Every soldier in the Battalion from Private to the CO is expected to follow and obey orders from "DEU 1A, 0830hrs" to "Charile Team, take that trench."

That obedience is formed and honed on the square and there is no optional choices when you're ordered to turn left or right

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I've had great success treating people like adults, and giving them freedom and responsibility to complete tasks in their own method. The few that take negative advantage of that don't last long.

And their dedication to following orders has never let me down. It funny and surprising what a little empathy shared adversity will get you as a leader.

 

[OldSolduer]

Never give soldiers an option. Same thing with "treating them like adults."

Treat soldiers like soldiers. Soldiers receive direction and orders and they are expected to follow them (unless theyre unlawful, obviously). Every soldier in the Battalion from Private to the CO is expected to follow and obey orders from "DEU 1A, 0830hrs" to "Charile Team, take that trench."

That obedience is formed and honed on the square and there is no optional choices when you're ordered to turn left or right.

This.

If The RCAF or RCN want to dispense with parades go ahead.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This.

If The RCAF or RCN want to dispense with parades go ahead.

No one has said get rid of all parades. Parades are a part of the military experience. Its CoC parades people are talking about, or at least I am.

 

[OldSolduer]

No one has said get rid of all parades. Parades are a part of the military experience. Its CoC parades people are talking about, or at least I am.

Gotcha.

IMO they are necessary but hey if you want to get rid of them ….

 

[Halifax Tar]

Gotcha.

IMO they are necessary but hey if you want to get rid of them ….

I mean I don't have a choice. Its just my opinion, and they are like assholes. But I think you will see their format change drastically in the near future WRT to their formality and attendance, same with mess dinners.

 

[OldSolduer]

I mean I don't have a choice. Its just my opinion, and they are like assholes. But I think you will see their format change drastically in the near future WRT to their formality and attendance, same with mess dinners.

I think speaking from an Army perspective the CoCs won’t change much but I’m retired so what do I know? Lol

Mess dinners are all good but the whole can’t use the washroom thing without permission is outdated.

But I retired in 2017….

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I've had great success treating people like adults, and giving them freedom and responsibility to complete tasks in their own method. The few that take negative advantage of that don't last long.

Oh believe me, I wasn't advocating micromanagement or not allowing people freedom or giving them responsibility; I am just more of a fan in giving people their left and right of arc rather than saying "you're all adults, don't be stupid..." because that has blown up in every leader's face at least once. Being told, explicitly, not to kidnap a calf out if the Wainwright training area prevents the "well you didn't say anything about thar...so..." conversation from happening.

And their dedication to following orders has never let me down. It funny and surprising what a little empathy shared adversity will get you as a leader.

We are both in agreement here. This is part in parcel with walking the walk when you talk the talk. I have never given direction or orders I myself won't adhere to.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I’ve always wondered who the Primary Security Forces are. MPs and 60-70 year old Commissionaires?

I am in the room and armed with several strongly worded letters.