CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[SeaKingTacco]

Baz- I agree with you. All I am saying is that, if I had the power to roll back the clock to 1993, I would break Jean Chretien's pen and we would have gotten the EH-101.

Now? No- we are way too far down range with Cyclone. We will do fine with her.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It could have been worse, they might have jumped into the USCG SA366 G1 Dauphin contract!

Let's hope the final completion of the Cyclone contract encourages others to buy them so the parts supply is robust.

 

[Baz]

Baz- I agree with you. All I am saying is that, if I had the power to roll back the clock to 1993, I would break Jean Chretien's pen and we would have gotten the EH-101.

Now? No- we are way too far down range with Cyclone. We will do fine with her.

My comment wasn't directed at you.  Absolutely I would have stayed with the EH-101 once we went down that path.

I am glad we got the tail ramp though... remember the original 101 (nor the Merlin) has that.  It will give us more flexibility in a world that is hard to crystal ball.

But I stand by my comments that those who are directly involved should just let us get on with it...

 

[MilEME09]

It could have been worse, they might have jumped into the USCG SA366 G1 Dauphin contract!

Let's hope the final completion of the Cyclone contract encourages others to buy them so the parts supply is robust.

Either that or buy in bulk now and put it in war stocks

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We will need to order another dozen with only 4 equipped for ASW when we get the Mistrals  8)

 

[suffolkowner]

Maybe once the Cyclone is up in running they could replace the Comorants in the SAR role?

 

[dapaterson]

Maybe once the Cyclone is up in running they could replace the Comorants in the SAR role?

Not enough are being purchased for that.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Worries about noise?

Residents near Victoria International Airport are demanding a federal environmental assessment into noise levels associated with Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone helicopters using the government’s new $155-million hangar and operations base.

Ben Casson, a retired Alberta prosecutor and provincial court judge now living in North Saanich, said that Ottawa has failed to consider the public impact of the new helicopters flying to and from the 443 Maritime Helicopter Squadron’s base.

“I’m not an activist, but maybe I should be,” Casson said in an interview. “I want to expose the process they followed on this project. They deliberately avoided public input. It’s horrific what they’ve attempted to do.”

He fears that the Cyclone helicopters — the long-awaited replacement for the aging CH-124 Sea King helicopters — will conduct flights at all times of the day and night. Duties could include training missions as well as enforcement of environmental, drug and fisheries laws “without any consultation whatsoever” of the affected public, he said ....

 

[Ostrozac]

Worries about noise?

A quick look at Air Canada's website shows that Airbus 319 and 320 are already operating out of YYJ. Is a Cyclone really that much louder than a commercial jet? I find that difficult to believe.

 

[Good2Golf]

Imagine, helicopters operating to, in part, uphold laws...it's..."HORRIFIC!"

Noise: About as much noise as the commuter helicopter that lands in the downtown harbour or the medevac helicopter that frequently lands at the Vic General in Saanich. 

#NIMBY

 

[dimsum]

Imagine, helicopters operating to, in part, uphold laws...it's..."HORRIFIC!"

Noise: About as much noise as the commuter helicopter that lands in the downtown harbour or the medevac helicopter that frequently lands at the Vic General in Saanich. 

#NIMBY

I guess it's time for the "who was here longer - you or the airport" game.

 

[Good2Golf]

I guess it's time for the "who was here longer - you or the airport" game.

Using CFB Downsview, or say, Dwyer Hill, as model for precedents, I think I know who will win the coin toss, eventually...

 

[suffolkowner]

Not enough are being purchased for that.

I was suggesting the acquisition of more Cyclones to replace the Comorants. I know many people consider the Cyclone to be an inferior aircraft but we would gain back fleet commonality and economies of scale that might have been part of the original plan. Fond as the Canadian Forces are of running diverse equipment fleets.

 

[George Wallace]

A quick look at Air Canada's website shows that Airbus 319 and 320 are already operating out of YYJ. Is a Cyclone really that much louder than a commercial jet? I find that difficult to believe.

The military flights mentioned in the complaint are at any time 24 and 7 through 365/6.  Civilian airlines flying in and out of airports are restricted in many municipalities to operating hours that mean "No flying hours" that vary from six to seven or eight hours from around mid-night to six am. 

That said, I have no compassion for anyone who purchases property near an airport, much the same as someone who purchases property near a pig farm, and then complains that their neighbours are too noisy or the smell is offensive.  Makes the point that even supposedly intelligent persons can be candidates for Darwin Awards.

 

[FSTO]

The military flights mentioned in the complaint are at any time 24 and 7 through 365/6.  Civilian airlines flying in and out of airports are restricted in many municipalities to operating hours that mean "No flying hours" that vary from six to seven or eight hours from around mid-night to six am. 

That said, I have no compassion for anyone who purchases property near an airport, much the same as someone who purchases property near a pig farm, and then complains that their neighbours are too noisy or the smell is offensive.  Makes the point that even supposedly intelligent persons can be candidates for Darwin Awards.

Night flight training usually ends at midnight. Operational flights are 24/7 but its not like there will be hundreds of aircraft supporting the massive fleet we have operating off the coast of BC.

To the gentleman in North Saanich, you bought a house near an airport, do you think it is going to be silent all the time? Oh and are you going to start to complain about the smells from the dairy and horse farms in the area as well? Dolt.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well, lets see here:

The Cyclones are not primary SAR birds. Those are the Cormorant up in Comox, except during the Swiftsure race when they usually bring one down to be closer to the action in case of trouble.

The Navy is not a constabulary: It does not do law enforcement with its ASW helicopters, and extremely seldom has to assist with enforcement of border security.

We have six, and in the foreseeable future (25 yrs horizon) not likely more than eight, helicopter carrying ships on the West Coast. Considering deployment patterns, training requirements and likely emergencies, how many flights between say 20h00 and 06h00 can we expect in any given year? I am a normal human being and I suspect that I have enough fingers to count those.

And I am in full agreement with George: People that decide of their own free will to go live by an airport have no business complaining about noise. Besides, they likely benefited from a lower price on their dwelling because of the airport noise.

 

[Underway]

It could have been worse, they might have jumped into the USCG SA366 G1 Dauphin contract!

Let's hope the final completion of the Cyclone contract encourages others to buy them so the parts supply is robust.

Cyclone is in competition for the German Sea King replacement.  Cross your fingers...

I always thought that we should get some commando variants to supplement the tac hel squadrons.  Wasn't there and option for 8 more helo's at some point?  Did that disapear when they reorg'd the contract?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That brochure is painful to read, they should shorten it to say: "Canada has already paid to fix the majority of the issues and you can piggyback on their pain"

 

[Baz]

I always thought that we should get some commando variants to supplement the tac hel squadrons.  Wasn't there and option for 8 more helo's at some point?  Did that disapear when they reorg'd the contract?

No, there was never that option.

The initial EH-101 purchase was for 50 aircraft, 15 for SAR and 35 for MH.  That was scaled back to the absolute minimum, to meet RCN CONOPs, of 28, during the election of 1993.  In effect, we peeled off any thought of having any for attrition.

There were staff papers during the SFCT period that suggested acquiring 12-15 extra aircraft in littoral maneuver (not commando) config.

 

[Underway]

No, there was never that option.

The initial EH-101 purchase was for 50 aircraft, 15 for SAR and 35 for MH.  That was scaled back to the absolute minimum, to meet RCN CONOPs, of 28, during the election of 1993.  In effect, we peeled off any thought of having any for attrition.

There were staff papers during the SFCT period that suggested acquiring 12-15 extra aircraft in littoral maneuver (not commando) config.

I'm assuming that littoral maneuver type are the pic on the right side.

Would that even be useful to the RCAF?  Assuming no "littoral" maneouver requirements would a mid lift helo be valuable for tac hel purposes?  Or just redundant with the Chinooks now online.