CFHA Residential Housing Unit (RHU)-old PMQ [MERGED]

[Stoker]

And unfortunately, Petawawa is wrong in using the PMed Techs to do this.  CFHA is its own entity and should be hiring a civilian company to come in and do it.  Glad I stood my ground on that when I was in Kingston or we'd have been in the PMQs all the time.  :

Wouldn't CFHA drag their feet like they do with everything else, at least with PMED its a military entity and should action it fast. I don't know what PMED is doing in Pet but they action things fast in Halifax.

 

[startbutton]

Wouldn't CFHA drag their feet like they do with everything else, at least with PMED its a military entity and should action it fast. I don't know what PMED is doing in Pet but they action things fast in Halifax.

Yes CFHA does tend to drag their feet on somethings .... especially if it involves money. The CoC was going to get the PMeds to come in and do their tests because of that very reason and they were fedup with it , funny thing is when housing found out is when they moved very fast to rectify the problems .

 

[PMedMoe]

Wouldn't CFHA drag their feet like they do with everything else, at least with PMED its a military entity and should action it fast. I don't know what PMED is doing in Pet but they action things fast in Halifax.

All I'm saying is that using the PMeds for this kind of thing could be considered a conflict of interest.  I'd be curious to find out who pays for it.

And as I said, if we had done it in Kingston, we would have never got anything else done.

 

[PuckChaser]

And as I said, if we had done it in Kingston, we would have never got anything else done.

Probably a good comment on the state of the PMQs in Kingston.  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

Probably a good comment on the state of the PMQs in Kingston.  ;D

Or the people living in them. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Can't argue there, I've seen small zoos kept in PMQs....

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

And unfortunately, Petawawa is wrong in using the PMed Techs to do this.  CFHA is its own entity and should be hiring a civilian company to come in and do it.  Glad I stood my ground on that when I was in Kingston or we'd have been in the PMQs all the time.  :

Yes CFHA is their own entity but the structures are still owned by the Base Commander and Base Engineer, they are entirely within their authority to have a PMed inspection of the property as any other CF controlled facility. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Yes CFHA is their own entity but the structures are still owned by the Base Commander and Base Engineer, they are entirely within their authority to have a PMed inspection of the property as any other CF controlled facility.

Normally only in extreme circumstances, but hey, I don't make the rules.  :dunno:

The CF is not responsible for the health of dependents.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Normally only in extreme circumstances, but hey, I don't make the rules.  :dunno:

The CF is not responsible for the health of dependents.

Absolutely and this is where we fall into the cyclical debate.  The CF is not responsible for dependant health care, this is a known fact (although the CF Member lives there to and the CF is responsible for his/her health).  The CF is however liable for the health conditions of all facilities under their control.

 

[PMedMoe]

The CF is however liable for the health conditions of all facilities under their control.

As I said, I don't make the rules.  Every base is different.  In Kingston, they don't touch the PMQs.  In Ottawa, only self-help housing gets looked at.  Any other base, I don't know.

And nine times out of ten, there is either: a) nothing wrong with the PMQ; or b) recommendations are made and not acted upon by the occupant.

In lots of cases, the people just want to move because they don't like the PMQ.  At least, that's been my experience.  In one case, I'm pretty sure the occupant was trying to blame all of his family's health problems on the CF.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

As I said, I don't make the rules.  Every base is different.  In Kingston, they don't touch the PMQs.  In Ottawa, only self-help housing gets looked at.  Any other base, I don't know.

And nine times out of ten, there is either: a) nothing wrong with the PMQ; or b) recommendations are made and not acted upon by the occupant.

In lots of cases, the people just want to move because they don't like the PMQ.  At least, that's been my experience.  In one case, I'm pretty sure the occupant was trying to blame all of his family's health problems on the CF.

That my man I will not argue with you on at all.

 

[PMedMoe]

That my man I will not argue with you on at all.

Which is one of the main reasons we try not to get involved. 

 

[chriscalow]

Well things just got out of hand real quick. My son has had asthma flare ups everyday for a week since being back to the Q from a month away visiting family while I was on tasking. This morning, full on asthma attack. Wife fed up. They are moving back with family until I can get this sorted. I can't blame her. It's hard to watch a 19 month old baby struggle for air.

I'm not blaming anyone for his condition, but it truly seems that this rhu is certainly affecting him. I really hope housing helps me out on this. I don't want any money from them, just a new Q in a better state of repair. I am very anxious about what they are going to say tomorrow.

This post isn't a poke at anyone, just a nervous father venting.

 

[chriscalow]

The following is what I sent to CFHA today.  Am I being unreasonable making this request? .....

Hello, I am writing to request a new PMQ.  I currently live at ----------------, and since moving in last fall, we have found this unit to be unsuitable. There are a number of issues, and I have attached photographs as applicable.

My first concern is that my wife, and son have mild asthma, and it is definitely irritated by mould found in our PMQ.  My son more so, being an infant, though my wife has noticed a prominent increase in the use of her medication as well.  We can provide a note from my son's Doctor verifying this if needed.  A PMQ in a better state of repair could alleviate some of his suffering.  We have not been home for the last month, and he went without issue, and within a 24 hour period of being back to this PMQ, he has had flare ups daily.  This morning, 9 Apr 12, we woke up to him having a full blown asthma attack, and spent the day trying to care for him.  Once he was removed from the RHU, his condition improved dramatically, allowing his medication to take hold.  We have tried to clean the mould IAW the suggestions in the CMHC link from your web page, but the mould returns.

Heating this unit has proven very inefficient, all winter, this unit did not have any snow on the roof.  This is an indication of major heat loss through the roof, which is quite run down.  The bedrooms upstairs were absolutely frigid, to the point that we ended up moving my son downstairs for the winter months, and purchasing a portable electric heater for our room, just to keep it tolerable.  Between paying to heat the outdoors, and the added cost of running the portable heater, our hydro bill doubled for the month of January.  We had done the commercial window treatments on all the glass in the house, to little effect. 

My wife has begun packing and is on the verge of leaving over this matter.  We spent Christmas leave away from the PMQ with our family, and my son had no asthmatic reactions.  She came back to -------------- with me following leave, the flare ups continued, and so returned to her famliy's residence mid February, and stayed down there as I was on a tasking.  We returned -----------, in hopes that opening windows etc, would help and with the warmer weather we could do that.  He is still reacting.  She is talking about moving herself and my son down home until this is resolved, and I really can't do anything but agree, it's my son's health.

We have found units empty right across the street, and have looked them over.  I understand that there are several reasons for why there are empty RHU's across the north and south townsites, and understand completely, however, we have found them to be a great improvement over what we currently are dealing with.  Specifically --------------.  As far as I can see from the outside, they appear to be in much better condition than my current RHU.  They appear to be much cleaner. The open concept style would allow us to keep a closer eye on our son from where we are to where ever he goes tearing off to.  The yards are fenced in, and would allow him to play safely and secure outside without having dogs running up on him in our own yard (he is also allergic to dogs, causing more asthma issues).  I still have not determined where these dogs come from, but if I do, SPCA will be getting called very quick.  The roofing appears to be relatively new, and the exterior has been recently finished as well. 

We noticed that the floors are somewhat worn, but we have no problem with this, and would not request that any work be done on them, in order to facilitate a move asap, with no cost to your organization.  We are prepared to take one of these units "as is", as long as we can take a quick look inside to ensure there is no mould issues. All we are asking for is to exchange the keys.  We feel that a move across the street would greatly improve our quality of life by allowing us to have a safer environment for our son to grow up.  It would be our cheapest option as we would not need to hire a truck or anything and that would help us out as well.

We are not looking to have CFHA assist us in a move in anyway, financially or otherwise.  Only to allocate a PMQ that is safe for my son, more suitible to our family and to enhance our quality of life.  We very much enjoy living on base, and especially the area we are in, with the close proximity to the park and that there are several young families on our street.

Thank you very much for your consideration in this matter.

 

[trenchfoot]

Receive any news back on being able to get a new PMQ?

 

[dapaterson]

A letter to the editor from today's Fredericton Daily Gleaner, on the state of PMQs:

This is in response to Courtney Wall's commentary published last week about the state of PMQs for military families in Oromocto.

What an incredible load of self-entitled tripe! I have close to four decades of military service and I have not heard so much nonsense in a long time.

PMQ communities have gone downhill, but it is not the fault of the Canadian Forces Housing Agency. It has a lot to do with the residents themselves, from pets roaming at large, to loud music all hours of the day, to throwing one's garbage out the front door and expecting someone else to take it to the curb, tearing apart cars on the front lawn, not to mention vandalizing houses while drunk, and numerous other social ills the modern PMQ resident seems to be afflicted with.

These ills were curbed before as units were inspected inside and out annually to made sure tenants were living up to their rental agreements. Those who did not faced military justice.

This does not happen anymore. But that is not CFHA's fault. That is the fault of the well paid, over entitled residents who seem to feel they have Charter rights to a PMQ because they are in the military.

Mould is an issue and one that CFHA is using its limited resources to correct.

If you did not destroy the lawn, break windows and the hundreds of other things that residents do and taxpayers pay for, there would be a lot more money for mould issues.

If you went and got an O-ring for that leaking tap instead having of CFHA pay $100 to have a plumber do it, there would be more money for mould. Choices, people!

Ms. Wall goes on about the three strikes policy. Imagine, your landlord holding you accountable for not paying the utilities, making you haul away the wrecked car in the driveway or not allowing you to wreck your taxpayer-funded lawn.

The horror! The fact is, the utility company will cut off a PMQ and not re-connect until the bill is paid. That means, Ms. Wall, if you do not pay your bills and then move out, that PMQ cannot be rented until the bill is paid. So guess who has to take on that irresponsibility - we taxpayers.

If you ruin a lawn or break windows, guess who - we taxpayers.

"It's a military dwelling made for military personnel to live in. Yet they can throw us out." It is not a right! It is a privilege, and judging by my recent drive through the PMQs, a very abused one indeed.

Try living in a rental in Fredericton. You have to give damage deposit, first and last month rent, and you are expected to paint the place if you damage the paint. You are expected to mow the lawn more than once a year.

It never ceases to amaze me how some soldiers can afford BMWs, Harleys and $60K trucks, but cannot claim ownership of a $100 lawn mower.

The fact is that PMQs are long past their use. There is no one in the military making less than the average New Brunswicker and they all manage to pay $800 rents and $1,000 mortgages. It seems to me that a little responsibility and a little less entitlement might make a better person.

Yes, you will not have a Harley or BMW or both, but you will experience pride of ownership and learn to look after something. At least, if you want to get your investment back, you will have to look after it!

Wayne Fraser lives in Oromocto.

 

[PuckChaser]

Mr Wayne Fraser needs to get off his high horse. I'm sure there's quite a few people who take care of their PMQs only to have them fall apart around them. You put people in a ghetto with crappy homes for $900 a month, and they'll treat them like crap. You give them a new(er) PMQ and they'll gladly pay a little more to rent it.

My backyard floods (2-3 ft of water) in the spring because the drainage ditch was not completed properly. According to Mr. Fraser I should fix that myself like a good soldier.

Funny thing is, the troops that are breaking windows and charging the taxpayer money are also taxpayers, and contribute just as much share to the replacement and repair of those damages as anyone else. Always love that "you belong to the taxpayer line". Surprise, we're taxpayers too.

 

[dapaterson]

Mr Wayne Fraser needs to get off his high horse. I'm sure there's quite a few people who take care of their PMQs only to have them fall apart around them. You put people in a ghetto with crappy homes for $900 a month, and they'll treat them like crap. You give them a new(er) PMQ and they'll gladly pay a little more to rent it.

If it's so bad, move to town, and see if your landlord is anywhere near as tolerant as the CFHA - hint - he or she won't be.

My backyard floods (2-3 ft of water) in the spring because the drainage ditch was not completed properly. According to Mr. Fraser I should fix that myself like a good soldier.

Not at all.  CFHA should be correcting that fault.

Funny thing is, the troops that are breaking windows and charging the taxpayer money are also taxpayers, and contribute just as much share to the replacement and repair of those damages as anyone else. Always love that "you belong to the taxpayer line". Surprise, we're taxpayers too.

Troops that are breaking the windows in the Qs, parking their cars on the lawn, and refusing to mow the lawn are hooligans whose chain of command should be coming down on them like a ton of bricks so the CF can be rid of them, and replace them with professionals.

 

[fraserdw]

You should post the original letter from Courtney Wall, she had a pretty high horse too, claiming rights to this and that.  I have read both of these.  As for the tax payer, the argument is rather circular, I think in 27 years I have taken far more out of the treasury than I ever put in, unless of course you are paying 110% rate. 

 

[dapaterson]

As requested, the original letter that promted the reply above, from a resident of the PMQ patch in Gagetown.

With the PMQs at CFB Gagetown being in the news a lot lately, I would like to share my experiences, as I have lived in military housing for 18 years. I also grew up in them.

They have gone downhill since they became the responsibility of the Canadian Forces Housing Agency.

When the military gave the houses over to CFHA, things slowly fell apart. I remember living in a house that was full of mould. It was growing everywhere - even inside cupboards, among other places. We were told to wash it and forget about it. Finally we had to get my husband's work involved to get us out of there.

The comment about the mould testing being time-consuming and not practical don't fly. I talked to some people who said they wouldn't mind the cost coming out of the PMQ fund. But the problem is, we have no say in what we want and don't want.

Mould is just one part of this whole disturbing trend. For those who don't know, CFHA has implemented a new "three-strikes and you're out" policy. Strikes include being close to disconnection on power, water or Enbridge Gas; not taking your outdoor car shelter down by summer; and parking on the lawn. If you get three of these, you will be thrown out of the PMQ. It's a military dwelling made for military personnel to live in. Yet they can throw us out.

My friend who is in Afghanistan right now received a letter over there this week saying if he didn't take his car shelter down, they would evict them. His wife had talked to CFHA weeks ago and they said because he was deployed, the rule could be bent until he returned. But this week his wife got a call from her husband saying they are being evicted because of the car shelter.

Once upon a time, living here was a dream. Your house was always looked after, no matter how small or big the project. These homes were affordable. The advent of the CFHA changed all that.

Now the CFHA is involved in monitoring whether we pay our bills on time. Have you ever heard of a landlord who is involved in every aspect of your life like that? CFHA is allowed to call the utilities to find out if you're behind in your payments. And if you are behind in paying, it's a strike against you.

Have you ever heard of anything so ridiculous? Welcome to our world!

PMQs are suppose to be affordable living space for us, but they no longer are. Strikes here, strikes there. Driving by, you would think they are in good shape esthetically, but inside it's another story.

I have cupboards in my kitchen that I can't reach without a ladder and the paint used to come off on my dishes. I asked CFHA to redo my cupboards and was told I couldn't live here while it's being done. But I found out that some people have had new cupboards put in.

They sent someone to repaint my cupboards but they just painted over it and now the dishes stick to the cupboard.

I know these houses were built in the 1960s, but it's time to do the upgrading inside and stop with the upgrades outside.

People have actually started buying houses as it's just as cheap to buy as it is to rent a PMQ. Rent goes up every year and sometimes twice a year. CFHA keeps saying that it's comparable to housing in Fredericton. I assure you, the houses in Fredericton don't look like ours on the inside.

To letter writer John Wells: I don't know if you are or were military or not, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Mould is just scratching the surface. I could fill a whole newspaper on what happens around here. And yes, military people are still too nervous to ask for help from the media.

Courtney Wall lives in Oromocto. Send comments to letters@dailygleaner.com.