CF Trying to Make Best Use of Video Games

[The Bread Guy]

MERX listing - .pdf attached below

....The objective of this contract is to conduct an in depth serious Video Games (VG), Application Programming Interfaces (API) and Video Game Consoles (VGC) review as part of the DRDC Valcartier Serious Gaming Initiative. The scope of this Statement Of Work (SOW) consists in a detailed search for and review of actual serious VG and API, and in a detailed review of selected VGC, both relevant to Defence and Security (D&S) contexts and immersive environments. The review shall focus on factual information, specification and feature evaluations and D&S context applicability for each reviewed serious VG and API.

VG have been originally designed to entertain. Quickly some users have identified the potential of exploiting these VG for non-entertainment applications. Recently, the launch of the Serious Gaming Initiative (in 2002) drastically increased the usage of VG to address utilitarian applications such as education, health, financial and D&S. Nowadays, the domain of VG and serious gaming growth so quickly that it became difficult to follow this initiative. A State of the Art (SotA) is then required to obtain an overview of current initiatives and also to assess possibilities to exploit VG and API for D&S applications and VGC for immersive environments.....

More on link

 

[Snafu-Bar]

In other words they are considering putting something together much along the lines of America's Army?

If so it has it's merits and abilities to teach interactivly and safely. Nothing can replace DOING it live, but when costs are factored in as well as safety i think it's got a very solid base with which to work from. Sounds interesting.

Cheers

 

[brihard]

No real surprise. Other countries have been using rebuilds of commercial computer games with some success. The Aussies rebuilt Operation Flashpoint to conduct some simulation training, and the Americans have used versions of the Close Combat game engine for tactical command training. It's only natural we'd express some interest in something similar.

 

[wannabe SF member]

I'm not sure I undertand. ???

Would it be like AA and be destined to the public for recruitment purposes or would it's uses be for training and simulation?

 

[Snafu-Bar]

With good enough programmers and a solid flexible engine anything can be accomplished really. The only limit then becomes code time and content for realism.

Think of the medical aspects allowing for virtual surgery, or teaching recruits on weapons training in close combat, breach and clear tactics(most of the latter has been covered by tons of games)

Forcus on individual aspects of each MOC for example would be a great asset to allow for rapid training in some aspects of the daily routine.

Endless possibilities.

 

[Pieman]

  In other words they are considering putting something together much along the lines of America's Army?

That has already been done: http://www.armyelearning.ca/cfda/
Although it is a SWAT 4 mod.

With good enough programmers and a solid flexible engine anything can be accomplished really. The only limit then becomes code time and content for realism.

Making something like this happen to the AA quality does not take too much personnel, but takes a lot of resources to obtain rights to the game engines. Mods are semi-flexable, and you can run into serious problems very quickly in development when you take a 'real world' approach. Obtaining rights to the source code is massively expensive for good game engines.

 

[wannabe SF member]

Doesn't the fact that it's a non profit endeavour cancel out the need to pay royalties for a game engine, especially for an organization affiliated to the government?
Also, I don't think they'd actually go for a top of the line engine like euphoria or Crytek since they're not trying to make an AAA game so don't the prices for older engines go down with time?

 

[Pieman]

think they'd actually go for a top of the line engine like euphoria or Crytek since they're not trying to make an AAA game so don't the prices for older engines go down with time?

Companies do a great job of bleeding the value of their game engines out. Cost goes down, but very slowly.

They are tight with the cost because their next generation game engine is normally built on top of the older ones. Give out your information, you are always risking someone swiping your ideas.

For the new Unreal 3 game Engine you are looking at the 20 million range for a license. Games are a big business these days. For the older engine released in 2000 you are still around 7 million.

This is affordable, but it is a matter of whether or not people want to spend the money on it.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

If it's going to be used for "educational purposes" i'm guessing that some company out there would be willing to lend the engine for the possibilities of any royalties or potential sales through advertising or some such partnership.

As long as it's not something from EA  >

 

[Pieman]

If it's going to be used for "educational purposes" i'm guessing that some company out there would be willing to lend the engine for the possibilities of any royalties or potential sales through advertising or some such partnership.

It is called a non-profit license, and most companies offer it. Cheaper than a license where you intend to sell a product, but still very expensive.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Steel Beast pro 

 

[adaminc]

They should use the unreal or crysis engines. If LucasArts was releasing Force Unleashed onto the PC, I would've suggested they used it, but apparently, PC's can't handle the game (Bunch of BS)

 

[Blindspot]

They should use the unreal or crysis engines. If LucasArts was releasing Force Unleashed onto the PC, I would've suggested they used it, but apparently, PC's can't handle the game (Bunch of BS)

America's Army uses the Unreal engine.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

The game engine's are created on the PC and ported into whatever platform it's being developed for.

Any gaming console is a PC in proprietary clothing with the hardware SPEC made to thier wishes, then software is created and ported onto it.

The Unreal engine isn't the best option, and from the sounds of what the Crysis engine is capable of it's probably the better choice. It also depends on the learning curves involved and the actual ease of creation using it.

All depends on what they have in mind and how much resource they can throw at it to accomplish thier task. Either way it sounds like fun and look forward to how it developes.

8)

 

[adaminc]

The only problem with the crysis engine is that you need heavy resources (SLI systems) to make full use of it. Maybe the CF can coax LucasArts into letting them use their engine for Force Unleashed, the physics engine and particle engines are amazing!

 

[TacticalW]

That would be pretty amazing, especially if it delivers the same quality as AA. It's done wonders for recruitment there and here I believe it would do the same and hopefully raise awareness of the Canadian Forces among the population. Although to get it to that level they "need" to spend a good amount of resources for it and get a decent engine. The pay off could be big if done right.

I think the Unreal Engine would be a great choice as well, it can pull off realistic games very well. Red Orchestra (most realistic WW2 Sim) used it and it was mighty fantastic.

You can bet I'll make time to play a game called Canadian Army. Although by the time it's out I think I'll be on my first contract - or second.

 

[H3LLQc]

Considering the emphasis on "immersive environments" and the fact that Valcartier has a CAVE http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/CAVE/, it is very likely that this contract aims at developping customized Video Game for a very specific purpose in the CAVE.

 

[40below]

How is this different than the "synthetic environments" that the CF already uses and is developing? There's another one opening at the CFSCE school this fall for signallers.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Check out these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkbxjFt4qnk

Threat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4SAVeNjss0&feature=related

Leo2A4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDC5W8iHF6M&feature=related

TOW tracking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_47SUnyKlc&feature=related

CO planning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvNvFDRpxk&feature=related

Convoy escort IED attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJpYpGTwgJw&feature=related

CV90 and artillery (french)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHx-q0X7v-4

more arty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu6T957sUvY

 

[Pieman]

Considering the emphasis on "immersive environments" and the fact that Valcartier has a CAVE http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/CAVE/, it is very likely that this contract aims at developping customized Video Game for a very specific purpose in the CAVE.

CAVE systems have been around for years and are in my opinion ineffective. They are big, expensive, and cumbersome to use. When you stand in a cave you get disorientated, and there is little or no sense of realism to the environment you are interacting with. You can create an immersive environment in more clever ways now using Augmented Reality technology which is much more effective. Cheaper too.

Looking over the original post, the contract is for someone to come in and do an analysis on the types of systems out there. I know a number of people in the CF now that can tell them what is what. Not sure what the need to spend money on an external contract is for.