CF Looking at Donkeys as Load Carriers in AFG
- Thread starter The Bread Guy
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Whiffle tree had popped into my mind, as did the ditty "The old grey mare, she pooped on the whiffle tree, pooped on the whiffletree, pooped on the whiffle tree, the old grey mare, she pooped on the whiffle tree many long years ago."
Edit. Google is my friend. The whiffle tree is the swinging bar that the harness is hitched to, so that ain't it.
Edit. Google is my friend. The whiffle tree is the swinging bar that the harness is hitched to, so that ain't it.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Damm there goes my plans to have a drink with an ass of a veteran 
Canadian military dumps plans to use donkeys in resupply efforts
September, 2, 2009 - 02:20 pm Graveland, Bill - (THE CANADIAN PRESS) KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - They may be the cream of the crop when it comes to strength, stubbornness and agility, but it turns out that in Afghanistan, the donkey makes a lousy soldier.
A trial project to use the humble beast of burden to help resupply Canadian soldiers out in the field came to an abrupt halt this summer.
The idea was to help ease the load for Canadian troops contending with the often difficult Afghan terrain. There are mountains, irrigation canals, grape fields, mud-walled compounds and wadis - dry riverbeds that carry water during heavy rains.
Roadways can be narrow and the choice of thoroughfares limited, making vehicles carrying Canadian and Afghan soldiers particularly susceptible to deadly improvised explosive devices, the weapon of choice for Taliban insurgents.
However, the practical considerations involved with using donkeys made the idea less effective in practice than it appeared it would be in theory, said Capt. Kirk Watson, whose unit - G-4 Ops, based at Kandahar Airfield - is in charge of logistics.
"We got to a point where we fielded a few donkeys on patrols and unfortunately we lost a couple - one actually drowned and another actually deserted and ran off," Watson explained.
"After that we took a significant amount of time and reviewed the particular project and moved forward without it."
With heat during the summer months surpassing 50 C, it is next to impossible for a soldier in full battle gear to carry enough water and ammunition to survive. The plan was to purchase up to 30 specially trained donkeys and turn them over to a unit of Afghan soldiers and their Canadian mentors.
The hope was the donkey, which can survive with little water and carry more than 350 pounds of gear - nearly 160 kilograms worth - would be able to help.
But the animal didn't live up to the billing that has made it popular with United States and British soldiers, who use pack animals to support special operations in the mountains. The Americans studied the use of camels, dogs and mules - but the donkey came out tops in the ratings.
The last time Canadian troops used donkeys was during operations in northern Sicily in the Second World War.
"At the end of the day - was it a good idea? Yeah, it was definitely a good idea," Watson said.
"Was this particular taskforce ready to employ it? No."
The recent Canadian deployment of a half-dozen used Chinook helicopters has rendered the need for the donkeys a moot point, he added.
"The amount of stuff you can load into a chopper - whether it's sling-loaded (suspended underneath) or you can throw in the back - is ideal," Watson said.
"At the end of the day, if there is a position that's on a mountain and you are utilizing a Chinook, you don't even have to land it. You just have to get in proximity to release the material and drop it off."
The military is also using heavy trucks to make sure the troops are resupplied.
Even though the donkey brigade idea initially elicted a few snide remarks and some laughter, Watson called it a shame it didn't work out.
"You always want to have something in your back pocket, but it just happened donkeys weren't as easy to hold in your back pocket as a Chinook or a truck," he chuckled.
"Unfortunately, they were a little more temperamental."
Read
Canadian military dumps plans to use donkeys in resupply efforts
September, 2, 2009 - 02:20 pm Graveland, Bill - (THE CANADIAN PRESS) KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - They may be the cream of the crop when it comes to strength, stubbornness and agility, but it turns out that in Afghanistan, the donkey makes a lousy soldier.
A trial project to use the humble beast of burden to help resupply Canadian soldiers out in the field came to an abrupt halt this summer.
The idea was to help ease the load for Canadian troops contending with the often difficult Afghan terrain. There are mountains, irrigation canals, grape fields, mud-walled compounds and wadis - dry riverbeds that carry water during heavy rains.
Roadways can be narrow and the choice of thoroughfares limited, making vehicles carrying Canadian and Afghan soldiers particularly susceptible to deadly improvised explosive devices, the weapon of choice for Taliban insurgents.
However, the practical considerations involved with using donkeys made the idea less effective in practice than it appeared it would be in theory, said Capt. Kirk Watson, whose unit - G-4 Ops, based at Kandahar Airfield - is in charge of logistics.
"We got to a point where we fielded a few donkeys on patrols and unfortunately we lost a couple - one actually drowned and another actually deserted and ran off," Watson explained.
"After that we took a significant amount of time and reviewed the particular project and moved forward without it."
With heat during the summer months surpassing 50 C, it is next to impossible for a soldier in full battle gear to carry enough water and ammunition to survive. The plan was to purchase up to 30 specially trained donkeys and turn them over to a unit of Afghan soldiers and their Canadian mentors.
The hope was the donkey, which can survive with little water and carry more than 350 pounds of gear - nearly 160 kilograms worth - would be able to help.
But the animal didn't live up to the billing that has made it popular with United States and British soldiers, who use pack animals to support special operations in the mountains. The Americans studied the use of camels, dogs and mules - but the donkey came out tops in the ratings.
The last time Canadian troops used donkeys was during operations in northern Sicily in the Second World War.
"At the end of the day - was it a good idea? Yeah, it was definitely a good idea," Watson said.
"Was this particular taskforce ready to employ it? No."
The recent Canadian deployment of a half-dozen used Chinook helicopters has rendered the need for the donkeys a moot point, he added.
"The amount of stuff you can load into a chopper - whether it's sling-loaded (suspended underneath) or you can throw in the back - is ideal," Watson said.
"At the end of the day, if there is a position that's on a mountain and you are utilizing a Chinook, you don't even have to land it. You just have to get in proximity to release the material and drop it off."
The military is also using heavy trucks to make sure the troops are resupplied.
Even though the donkey brigade idea initially elicted a few snide remarks and some laughter, Watson called it a shame it didn't work out.
"You always want to have something in your back pocket, but it just happened donkeys weren't as easy to hold in your back pocket as a Chinook or a truck," he chuckled.
"Unfortunately, they were a little more temperamental."
Read
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See also:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/82039.0.html
although the referenced article mis-spells the ass-master's name.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/82039.0.html
although the referenced article mis-spells the ass-master's name.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Funny I was just reading “Vancouver Defended” last night and there is a part of the book where the 15th field artillery brigade started experimenting with mechanization (1928 if I recall correctly) by hiring local trucks to pull their guns. The men were impressed by the speed of the march (10mph average) over the horses and the greatly reduced workload by not having horses that required feeding and tending.
Having been on an attachment to an Allied animal-transported pack artillery regiment many years ago, I would like to add a couple of comments.
Animal transport is very expensive in terms of people to look after the animals and in terms of continually requiring food and water. A horse-drawn field battery requires about fifty percent more personnel than a vehicle-drawn one. As Colin P noted, there is also the speed factor. And, of course, they require halts for water. There are very good reasons why they were replaced in military service, except in very specialized situations.
A small pack train of donkeys cannot really lift much more than part of the stuff the troops are humping. Perhaps that is why they have a use with SOF who operate in small parties, than in support of a dismounted company.
Still, it was a worth a try. BZ for trying.
Animal transport is very expensive in terms of people to look after the animals and in terms of continually requiring food and water. A horse-drawn field battery requires about fifty percent more personnel than a vehicle-drawn one. As Colin P noted, there is also the speed factor. And, of course, they require halts for water. There are very good reasons why they were replaced in military service, except in very specialized situations.
A small pack train of donkeys cannot really lift much more than part of the stuff the troops are humping. Perhaps that is why they have a use with SOF who operate in small parties, than in support of a dismounted company.
Still, it was a worth a try. BZ for trying.
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I guess now those fine folks at PETA will have to dump all their plans for a "Stop the Evil Canadian Military Turning Innocent Donkeys into War Crimals" Campaign. Oh well gives them more time to focus on their study on the psychological damage caused my leash walking of your dog.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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So you are saying that my idea of strapping taliban caught redhanded to pigs and making them walk through IED areas might just offend PETA?
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I saw this recently on the Discovery Channel:
http://www.history.co.uk/shows/deep-wreck-mysteries/deep-wreck-mysteries/episodes.html
"Search for the Bone Wreck" tells the story of "the 9,000-tonne White Star liner Armenian had been carrying a cargo of 3,000 mules, destined for the trenches of France, when it was torpedoed by a German U-boat on June 28, 1915."
http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/livingcornwall/Divers-grim-discovery-liner-sunk-U-boat/article-480889-detail/article.html
It shows how much the Army relied upon mules in WW1.
http://www.history.co.uk/shows/deep-wreck-mysteries/deep-wreck-mysteries/episodes.html
"Search for the Bone Wreck" tells the story of "the 9,000-tonne White Star liner Armenian had been carrying a cargo of 3,000 mules, destined for the trenches of France, when it was torpedoed by a German U-boat on June 28, 1915."
http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/livingcornwall/Divers-grim-discovery-liner-sunk-U-boat/article-480889-detail/article.html
It shows how much the Army relied upon mules in WW1.
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I guess the subtitle should read: "Fewer Asses in the Log Branch"
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