CF Hair Regulations - superthread [MERGED]

[pbi]

Michael:

There is also the reality of recruiting and retention, and especially in the Reserves, asking females to cut their hair short would be a step in the wrong direction.  Is this not self-evident?

Allowing long hair on males would create similar morale problems...

Because, at the present time, under the present idea of how women want to look, most women don't want to cut their hair that short, right? So, our hair regulations should reflect what is fashionable? What will we do when, inevitably, men's hair styles get longer again (and, BTW, take a look outside-it's happening amongst some high school kids already...) I say there is a slippery slope out there, and in this increasingly litigious country in which we serve, it may only be a matter of time. Cheers.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Michael:



Because, at the present time, under the present idea of how women want to look, most women don't want to cut their hair that short, right? So, our hair regulations should reflect what is fashionable? What will we do when, inevitably, men's hair styles get longer again (and, BTW, take a look outside-it's happening amongst some high school kids already...) I say there is a slippery slope out there, and in this increasingly litigious country in which we serve, it may only be a matter of time. Cheers.

Let them sue.  The hair regs have not changed for men or women since before WW II, so we can still claim tradition.  Though I've seen some pretty big sideburns on 1970s photos.

 

[pbi]

Yes: I can recall the "thumb tack head" look in the early 80's: sides cut short to meet inspection, top left long and floppy. It was ridiculous. As well, I can recall CSMs screeching death and destruction for anybody who shaved their heads.

Today, probably because of our increased involvement in ops, it seems that our soldiers have embraced short hair with a passion. Great, I say. Anyway: my gut feeling is in agreement with you: bring 'em on, because to me the real issue is a military cultural one. I only wanted to voice a long-held concern. Cheers.

 

[NMPeters]

It's not exactly true that the hair regs have not changed since WW II. They have for women. It used to be that women's hair was either put up or it had to be short enough that it did not reach the bottom of the collar. It also used to be that any hair clips used could not be shown. That has changed. I don't know exactly what it is, but I do recall the length of hair being changed to something longer for those women who are growing their hair out and your hair clips can now show so long as they match the colour of your hair. I think there is now also something obscure about braids. Now I have to admit, for most of my life, I've been cutting my hair down to the wood. If it started to even touch my ears I would panic and be into the salon for a cut. I have in the last few months decided that for the first time since I was 11 or 12 to grow my hair out a bit and try something "girly". I figured that I'm at the end of my career and if I really don't like it then I can always go back to the short short hair I'm so fond of. And I have to admit, that the new regulations for those growing hair makes sense. Since it takes a while for hair to grow, trying to put up all those different lengths is not only difficult, but looks like a complete dog's breakfast with pins and pieces of hair sticking out all over the place. Oh, and to top it off, Someone has decided to give me girlie curls as well, which I never knew I had  : How the hell am I suppose to tame that? Pretty sad state when a 41 year-old woman has no clue as to how to put hair up.

But I do think pbi is right. It's only time before this issue is before the courts. But if you're going to get into the different hair standards for men and women, then you have to also acknowledge the different dress standards between men and women. Why are we allowed the choice between the slacks and skirts for the CF or mess kit uniform? Why are we allowed the choice to wear the issued shoes or black pumps if we so desire? It used to be a uniform for men and women was the same pattern, just cut a size smaller for the women. It took years of convincing the uniform gods that women are different, our shapes are different, we look different, in order for them to actually come up with a pattern that is somewhat comfortable for us to wear. Now we want to say we're not different? We don't look different? We shouldn't have different dress or hair standards? And what about the Defence Women's Advisory Group that advises and reports on how developing and ongoing policies affect women. Should we eliminate that? Or the gender integration advisory committee? Do we only pull out the "we are women" card only at certain moments when it suits us? We are either different, or we're not. I have my own very personal and passionate views on these subjects. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[beach_bum]

The new DEU jacket is the same as the mens with the pockets, only they are tailored differently as they should be.  I am not built like a man, therefore, my clothes should not be tailored like mens.  As to the hair, well, I have had both long and short hair in my time in the military.  When it's long, I wear it up in a bun.  When it is short, I keep it tidy.  That is the way it should be.  When I am outside of work, I like to be able to "do" my hair and look girly.    Being treated the same as a man does not mean I am one.  Men and women are different.  That's life.

 

[Inch]

No no, you know - the bob cut - sort of a collar length cut that just kinda hangs there.

Here's an example (a bad one):   http://www.altaspa.net/styles/nustyles/images/bobcut3.jpg

Sloppy sloppy sloppy - too long. One standard, dammit! ONE STANDARD!!!    :crybaby:

Although I'd gladly sacrifice the "one standard" in dress/appearance for a single standard applied on physical fitness regulations. I mean, c'mon, 9 push-ups? I'm all for a modern integrated military but everyone should have to meet the same level across the board.

One standard? This isn't Nazi Germany man, why would we have standards that are at the opposite end of what the society we defend will accept? Sure there are some differences between Joe Civvie and Johnny Military, but for the most part we reflect society with all our standards.  Since you want one standard for hair, why not go back to the days when you couldn't get married without your CO's permission? Heaven forbid the quota was filled for the certain amount of men that could be married.  That would solve the problem of women wanting lady-like haircuts since they wouldn't be allowed to marry and wouldn't need to find a husband.  I think that's a very professional looking haircut and I don't see anything wrong with it.

As for the fitness standards, I agree to some extent. What about how the standards change when you're over 35?

Just my $0.02

Cheers

 

[Hansol]

hehehe hey all,

Right now i have hair that comes down past my eyes. bout 5 inches maybe. I am just wondering whether I should NOT cut it before St Jean, as to give everyone present a good laugh? I think that would be great fun for everyone, myself included. And will it indeed produce a laugh, or will having hair like that create a bad impression with the Sgts and MCpls right off the bat? cheers -Cameron

 

[qor556]

Yea, the physical fitness test for women was such a joke. 9 push ups and 15 sit ups along with the step test (performed at a slower speed) and the grip test. I understand the Canadian military is trying to encourage more women to join but these standards are much too low. During your courses you are expected to do the exact same amount of push ups/sit ups as everyone else so why have such a double-standard? Out on the field, a soldier is a soldier and it should not be any way else.

As for hair regs, it seems it all depends on the unit. You can't go wrong with a neat bun (they were very particular about this on course) and as for colour, I've dyed my hair a couple times and have not heard any complaints (a few jokes tho), as log as you keep it a natural colour although highlights are not acceptable. And as for dyeing your hair and saying "oh the beret covers it", obviously it tends to come off eg. when entering the mess, unless you choose not to take it off, but thats when you are obligated to buy rounds... ^-^

 

[combat_medic]

As far as the physical fitness standard, I had a guy on my basic who was 51, and his standard for the physical was lower than that of any of the girls on course, and yet nobody ever complains about this "double standard". People excuse the fact that even men typically get less fit as they age, and allow them an easier go on the physical, and yet when a woman, who will have a physically harder time anyway, is given a different standard, it's "favouritism". Either you support a single standard across the board for members of all ages, genders etc., or you accept the different standards based on certain mitigating circumstances..

 

[George Wallace]

As far as the physical fitness standard, I had a guy on my basic who was 51, and his standard for the physical was lower than that of any of the girls on course,

Could you post those standards?

I am 51 and the standards I am expected to meet are still higher than a woman half my age.  It really rots my socks off when I do a test and have some fat female nurse, a lot younger than me, do a lot less and a lot slower than me, receive a score two or three times better than mine.

GW

 

[brin11]

CF MINIMUM PHYSICAL FITNESS STANDARDS

Males under 34 Years

Step Test (ml/kg/min)    39
20 M Shuttle Run             6
(stage completed)          
Handgrip                       75
Situps                           19
Pushups                        19

Females under 34 Years

Step Test                     32
20 M Shuttle Run             4
Handgrip                       50
Situps                           15
Pushups                          9

Males over 34 Years

Step Test                      35
20 M Shuttle Run              5
Handgrip                        73
Situps                            17
Pushups                         14

Females over 34 Years

Step Test                      30
20 M Shuttle Run              3
Handgrip                        48
Situps                            12
Pushups                           7

They also mention the following:

CF personnel between the ages of 40-49 years must score a minimum of 6 points on the (CPAFLA) Healthy Physical Activity Participation Questionnaire in order to attempt the 20 MSR.
CF personnel who are 50 years of age and older must score a minimum of 9 points on the (CPAFLA) Healthy Physical Activity Participation Questionnaire in order to attempt the 20 MSR.  

What exactly is this questionnaire and what happens if you fail to qualify to take the fitness test?  Are you put on medical category?

The above info was taken from the following link:

http://www.psphalifax.ns.ca/FleetFitness/expres.asp#EXPRES%2020MSR

 

[combat_medic]

Take a look here: http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/incentive.shtml

It shows that incentive exempt status is level 5.5 for men over 50, and 6 for women under 16. And according to the list, there are 10 different standards for all the different age and gender categories.

 

[brin11]

Too bad there aren't PERIs around anymore to give us the definitive answer.   Oh ya, we got rid of them...  

I haven't done any type of physical standards testing since leaving the reg force in 1991.   I noticed that the physical tests were supposed to be administered to all CF personnel; I guess the reserves don't count.   Under what circumstances are reserve force members tested for a physical fitness standard?   Obviously, we do very little fitness training on "paid" time (as I read in another thread) but do we or do we not have to maintain a tested standard?

I realize I'm hijacking this thread but I really would like to know.    GW, I don't blame you for your "rotten socks", I agree.   I think we've discussed here before about the possibility of having physical standards for trades or positions.   There certainly is for some such as Firefighter and SAR tech.   Obviously there needs to be a minimum physical standard for all personnel but what about increased   standards depending on your job rather than your gender or age?

 

[ackland]

Too bad there aren't PERIs around anymore to give us the definitive answer.   Oh ya, we got rid of them...  

  Under what circumstances are reserve force members tested for a physical fitness standard?   Obviously, we do very little fitness training on "paid" time (as I read in another thread) but do we or do we not have to maintain a tested standard?

Here in LFCA we administer the Express test to all those going on Leadership courses and all new recruits. As for regular class A soldiers there is very little time to incorperate prep for a BFT so it now has slipped away from the priorities. Too bad

 

[George Wallace]

Take a look here: http://www.pspesquimalt.ca/fitness/testing/incentive.shtml

It shows that incentive exempt status is level 5.5 for men over 50, and 6 for women under 16. And according to the list, there are 10 different standards for all the different age and gender categories.

So if I read that right; a 50 year old man is still expected to score higher than a 17 year old girl?

It has been a long time since I have done an Express test.  We have to do the BFT annually (No matter what PSP may say).  We also have monthly tests of 2 mile run, push ups, and situps; all scored by sex and age.

GW

 

[Bushman]

Shaved heads are no good.   You'll get sunburnt in no time.   Get a nice short, neat haircut and that's all you really need to worry about.

hmmm...what about us guys that shave our heads with straight razors every day and have done so for the last 12 years? if i grow my hair i get hair ont he sides but not the top.... LOL!!!!    do we have to grow our hair? even with hair too i get sunburned (very fair skin). can we wear sunscreen or an issued hat??  :-\

 

[QORvanweert]

hmmm...what about us guys that shave our heads with straight razors every day and have done so for the last 12 years? if i grow my hair i get hair ont he sides but not the top.... LOL!!!!     do we have to grow our hair? even with hair too i get sunburned (very fair skin). can we wear sunscreen or an issued hat??    :-\

I started shaving my head this summer and have been doing so once a week since. one day I decided to use my manly charms and go sailing with a female prospect. well, 5 hours later I had turtled the boat 7+ times (jousting in Sunfish is AwEsOmE) and I had an absolutely horrible sunburn. the stupid thing hurt and peeled for the next 15 days. and then I tried to oil it and it became crispy. so, if you are doing a summer BMQ then leave enough on not to get a burn. take my word for it, you cannot sleep with a sunburn.....

 

[Gryphon]

The thing that you have to do when you shave your head, is to let it gradually get used to the sun... I started shaving my head in the middle of my 5s, and I never had any problems.. I always had a bottle of sunscreen with me, and everytime i felt my scalp over heat, more suncreen got lathered on.

 

[Gryphon]

Actually, completely shaving your head is a chargeable offence. Sunburns on your scalp can be extremely harmful.

I thought that too, but apperantly it's not an issue anymore... i'm seeing more and more cueballs on base

 

[Redeye]

It was made "ok" by a CANFORGEN in 2001 - which came out just days before a bunch of folks I was on course with got the bright idea to shave their heads.  The WO went to see if he could get them all charged only to find out they were technically okay.