CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter

[PuckChaser]

Yup. Almost makes one wish that the previous goverment had sorted it's crap out one way or another so we wouldn't be here today.

40 years of under funding the CAF is a non-partisan issue. Let's not forget who made the biggest stink about sole-sourcing F-35 (hint, it was the dudes who signed the original MOU). Until we have an Australian-level of all party support (or just the big 2, NDP is dead and Greens don't matter), DND will continue to be a political piggy bank and photo-op for the government of the day.

 

[Altair]

Yep.  I recall all of the opposition parties rallying around the cause of a new fighter and a common defence policy.  That happened.  Right?

Completely did not happen, not even close.

That all said, the previous goverment had 10 years, 4 of which were a majority so it's hard to pin all of this charlie foxtrot on the current goverment. Had the last one made any fighter jet a fait accompli we wouldn't be talking about this today.

 

[Altair]

40 years of under funding the CAF is a non-partisan issue. Let's not forget who made the biggest stink about sole-sourcing F-35 (hint, it was the dudes who signed the original MOU). Until we have an Australian-level of all party support (or just the big 2, NDP is dead and Greens don't matter), DND will continue to be a political piggy bank and photo-op for the government of the day.

pretty much.

For the record, I am no fan of this upcoming purchase of the super hornet as much as I wasn't a fan of the f35. A pox on all their houses.

 

[PuckChaser]

That all said, the previous goverment had 10 years, 4 of which were a majority so it's hard to pin all of this charlie foxtrot on the current goverment. Had the last one made any fighter jet a fait accompli we wouldn't be talking about this today.

We'd be just starting talking about replacements for the jets Chretien/Martin should have bought in the 1990s after the Hornets ran out of life around the 2000-2005 timeframe.... like I said, non-partisan.

 

[MarkOttawa]

The suddenly discovered RCAF fighter "capability gap" with regard to NORAD, NATO: video of MND Parliamentary Secretary John Mckay and opposition MPs.  Such be the level of Canadian political discussion of serious defence matters:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/700904003930

Upchuck.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FSTO]

40 years of under funding the CAF is a non-partisan issue. Let's not forget who made the biggest stink about sole-sourcing F-35 (hint, it was the dudes who signed the original MOU). Until we have an Australian-level of all party support (or just the big 2, NDP is dead and Greens don't matter), DND will continue to be a political piggy bank and photo-op for the government of the day.

And that is the crux of our procurement and employment problems in the CAF. We are not a serious country when it comes to defending ourselves.

(I guess BQ leader Bouchard was right!)

 

[George Wallace]

That all said, the previous goverment had 10 years, 4 of which were a majority so it's hard to pin all of this charlie foxtrot on the current goverment. Had the last one made any fighter jet a fait accompli we wouldn't be talking about this today.

Let's see now.  Jean Chretien, you remember him, the guy who scrapped the EH 101 purchase and we are only now getting a replacement, was the one in 1997 who started this whole F-35 process.  Don't go blaming that on the PC's.  The PC's had the brains that if so many billions had been spent, it was an even bigger WASTE to walk away.  Justin Trudeau is not of the same fiscal conservative mindset.  He prefers to throw money around as if it grows on trees.  ....... And as our Deficit grows, he is going to throw Billions away on the F-35 and get ZERO in return? 

 

[tomahawk6]

It seems that Trudeau is going to scrap the F-35 deal through the delay game,meanwhile more SuperHornets will be purchased.

 

[FSTO]

Let's see now.  Jean Chretien, you remember him, the guy who scrapped the EH 101 purchase and we are only now getting a replacement, was the one in 1997 who started this whole F-35 process.  Don't go blaming that on the PC's.  The PC's had the brains that if so many billions had been spent, it was an even bigger WASTE to walk away.  Justin Trudeau is not of the same fiscal conservative mindset.  He prefers to throw money around as if it grows on trees.  ....... And as our Deficit grows, he is going to throw Billions away on the F-35 and get ZERO in return?

And as Mr Anderson said today on CBC's Power and Politics, the consortium of countries financed a competition between Boeing, Lockheed Martin and one other (I thought it was only the two) and Lockheed won the competition with their F35. So we already have had the open competition (which Chretien, Martin and Harper all signed off on) so lets get on with it! I'm not a fan of the F35 but then I'm sceptical of all Air Force claims (no matter what country they come from).

Then again if we were a serious country we would have been flying Phantoms instead of the Starfighters, built 18 frigates instead of 12, would of had no gap between AOR's, flying Merlins instead of Cyclones or had Leopards long before the Centurions were ready for the National War Museum.

Our procurement issues predate the last government and will outlast the next couple of governments unless we (the Canadian Citizens) get our head out of our butts and demand that the Libs and Tories smarten up and work together on the interests of National Defence.

 

[Altair]

Let's see now.  Jean Chretien, you remember him, the guy who scrapped the EH 101 purchase and we are only now getting a replacement, was the one in 1997 who started this whole F-35 process.  Don't go blaming that on the PC's.  The PC's had the brains that if so many billions had been spent, it was an even bigger WASTE to walk away.  Justin Trudeau is not of the same fiscal conservative mindset.  He prefers to throw money around as if it grows on trees.  ....... And as our Deficit grows, he is going to throw Billions away on the F-35 and get ZERO in return?

If that was the case they should have just bought the damn planes when they had the chance.

Instead they played political hot potato with it and I'm sorry my friend, but that is their fault. The last the conservatives mentioned the F 35 it was to say that they were going about doing a reset on the program and left it at that.

So here we are today, and now the Liberals have the chance to buy the only plane they realistically can buy given their views and promises, the Super Hornet.

So to clarify in a way we can all understand, in the manner in which Oprah gives away cars,

The liberals started this sh!t show!

The conservatives continued this sh!t show!

The liberals have put the finishing touches on this sh!t show!

Everybody caused this sh!t show!

 

[Kirkhill]

If that was the case they should have just bought the damn planes when they had the chance.

To be fair:  I have to agree.

They should never have let the 43 BCAD operating cost red herring deflect from the 6 BCAD purchase price.

 

[SupersonicMax]

For the Super Hornet supporters, from my, albeit very limited, experience flying the Super Hornet, it's no better than our Hornets in terms of systems: Same radar, worse targeting pod, same-ish EW, same weapons.  They have slightly better performance (slightly better acceleration, same turn performance, slightly better range/endurance) and can carry more weapons but I don't believe they would add anything to what we can currently do with our Hornets.  Buying Super Hornets would basically mean status quo in terms of capabilities...  Then again, maybe this is what our government is aiming for, but this hasn't really been defined yet.

 

[Kirkhill]

For the Super Hornet supporters, from my, albeit very limited, experience flying the Super Hornet, it's no better than our Hornets in terms of systems: Same radar, worse targeting pod, same-ish EW, same weapons.  They have slightly better performance (slightly better acceleration, same turn performance, slightly better range/endurance) and can carry more weapons but I don't believe they would add anything to what we can currently do with our Hornets.  Buying Super Hornets would basically mean status quo in terms of capabilities...  Then again, maybe this is what our government is aiming for, but this hasn't really been defined yet.

You raise a good point.

How is that defence review coming along?  I wonder what the zeitgeist is on nasty killy machiny things.

 

[Altair]

For the Super Hornet supporters, from my, albeit very limited, experience flying the Super Hornet, it's no better than our Hornets in terms of systems: Same radar, worse targeting pod, same-ish EW, same weapons.  They have slightly better performance (slightly better acceleration, same turn performance, slightly better range/endurance) and can carry more weapons but I don't believe they would add anything to what we can currently do with our Hornets.  Buying Super Hornets would basically mean status quo in terms of capabilities...  Then again, maybe this is what our government is aiming for, but this hasn't really been defined yet.

There should be a poll on which fighter people support on here, because I don't know any super hornet supporters off the top of my head.

 

[PuckChaser]

There should be a poll on which fighter people support on here, because I don't know any super hornet supporters off the top of my head.

I find most Super Hornet supporters are only that way because its the only American counter to F-35. They have no idea why they hate F-35, but someone told them it was bad once, so they're dead set on Super Hornet.

 

[Altair]

I find most Super Hornet supporters are only that way because its the only American counter to F-35. They have no idea why they hate F-35, but someone told them it was bad once, so they're dead set on Super Hornet.

Ya,  I heard about all the problems plaguing the F35 but I didn't just jump on the SH bandwagon.

I started to look into possible alternatives

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.ca/p/lockheed-martin-f-35a-lightning-ii-saab.html?m=1

That was my first stop and I did a bit of research on each one afterwards and I personally like the jas Gripen,  especially if it could be built by bombardier.

Didn't just settle on the only other American jet. Like the liberals seem to...

 

[SupersonicMax]

Please tell me how the Grippen, in terms of capabilities, would compare to our current fleet of Hornet.

 

[PuckChaser]

Its not even dual engine, which is the main drum beat by anti-F-35 people.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Please tell me how the Grippen, in terms of capabilities, would compare to our current fleet of Hornet.

He can't because he doesn't know, his logic probably revolves around the fact Sweden builds furniture that everyone loves so that must cross over to being able to build awesome Fighter Jets  ;D

 

[MarkOttawa]

FSTO: Rick Anderson very off-base: only two JSF competitors (Boeing X-32 the loser) and only US and UK involved in deciding the competion:
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/jsf.htm

Sad how otherwise bright Canadians know so little about defence and care so little, politics aside.

Rant off.

Mark
Ottawa