Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[Shamrock]

While its good that he made apologies, both written and in address made, he's worked with a Vets hospital and donate $200 to charity, it still doesn't excuse him from his crime and disgusting behavior.  Now was a chance to set a well publicized precedent that the monument is not a gutter or a pile of trash.  I'm from Ottawa so I see people all the time drop cigarette butts around it, spit their gum out, and when I saw the photo of that got waving while he peed I was very angry. 

This guy should have a criminal charge against him.

Law & Order, what would that accomplish? What are the ramifications of that?  What are the purposes of punishment, and is your statement in accordance with them?

How much would it cost to send the clown through the court system?  Think they have time to hear his trial?

 

[Teflon]

Anyone else want their intoxicated activities documented on the 11 O'Clock news?  I'm sure the padre can recall a line or two about throwing stones.

If I every commit such an despicable act of disrespect and filth as that  intoxicated or otherwise then YES, by all means document it on the 11 O/clock news, the morning news and any other news!

INTOXICATION IS NOT a defence, vindication or even an excuse for such despicable act!

yes he gave an apology - Because he is sorry about what this has done to him

yes he did volenteer work with vets and made a donation - why because hes had to

 

[alfie]

I don't mean to take away from his offense, as all CF know it doesn't matter how sorry you are you have to still do your time, I just think that the NDP have no credibility to speak on any CF issue at this point

 

[career_radio-checker]

Law & Order, what would that accomplish? What are the ramifications of that?  What are the purposes of punishment, and is your statement in accordance with them?

How much would it cost to send the clown through the court system?  Think they have time to hear his trial?

You want to put a monetary value on his crime? Would the crown spare expenses in the prosecution of a murderer?

I'm not saying he should hang from the highest tree, and actually think that he has learned a lesson and proved it by taking the initiative before a prosecution ordered him to do community service.

So in short, IMHO the issue is settled, his name and photo are well known to vets, he made up for his crime on his own time (the true sign of remorse) and probably won't go near the NWM anytime soon. I don't think he needs to be prosecuted, but I would never use the "how much would it cost to prosecute him" excuse to justify my opinion.

 

[lawandorder]

Its just that in Canadian courts defense and prosecution are based heavily on precedent.

What if July 1, 2007 someone pisses all over the Monument again?  Can he just go and do community service, Apologize about it, donate $200 and go on his way?  He can just say "the guy last year got off the hook after saying sorry and doing community service, why can't I?"

Now I'm not saying the only solution to the problem is handing out criminal charges.  I think we should have a presence at the memorial at all times.  Perhaps in the form of a Ceremonial Guard, or any other solution?

The Americans take great pride in the protection of their tomb of the unknown soldier and the rest of their monuments to the fallen.  Why can't we?

Thats just my idea of a solution. 

 

[Haggis]

Its just that in Canadian courts defense and prosecution are based heavily on precedent.

What if July 1, 2007 someone pisses all over the Monument again?  Can he just go and do community service, Apologize about it, donate $200 and go on his way?  He can just say "the guy last year got off the hook after saying sorry and doing community service, why can't I?"

And the learned judge who sits his trial can just as easily say "And you didn't learn a thing from his experience, son.  $400, 300 hours of community service at a veterans facility or MFRC and six months of probation.  If not, you go to jail.  Next case, please."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Please folks, lets keep this in perspective. He has already had the most "punishment" this country can offer,...public humiliation.

You wish to incarcerate an intoxicated man who seems to show remorse, for pissing? [ Yes, I realize the location]

Sober real criminals walk away from much more henious crimes against living people for less....................

 

[orange.paint]

And the criminals lawyer can cite what happened to the previous person who decided to exudate on the monument.

Why this country don't set EXAMPLES to prevent future crimes leaves me quite flummoxed.

But as with cocaine use in the army,a precedence is set once the first person gets away with it.It's hard to left the first guy off and nail the next guy to the wall.

Do I think this guy has paid?Personally no.Besides a few weeks in the hot seat this topic quickly left the mainstream media.And as for his "taking initiative"I'm sure his lawyer may have suggested it as a way to reduce his sentence.I highly doubt it's his good nature and love for the veteran's that made him volunteer.It's more along the lines of his love for personal freedom(not in prison).....which is kind of ironic when you think about it.

Isn't that what the war monument represents?
Freedom?

Please folks, lets keep this in perspective. He has already had the most "punishment" this country can offer,...public humiliation.

You wish to incarcerate an intoxicated man who seems to show remorse, for pissing? [ Yes, I realize the location]

Sober real criminals walk away from much more henious crimes against living people for less....................

You are absolutely right people in this country walk away from much more heinous crimes.However this boarders on nationalism,hence the differnt views on this iniquitous act.As for him showing remorse,in my opinion it's as I said earlier.Nothing more than a lawyer telling a client what to do.

However that's just my personal view.

 

[Shamrock]

Why this country don't set EXAMPLES to prevent future crimes leaves me quite flummoxed.

You tell us, what sort of example would you have had set from you?

Let's be frank.  Canada has it's own set of morales and values; military monuments aren't high up on that list.  How many of you people demanding a watch be set up on the Memorial would be willing to do it yourself?

Without pay?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

You tell us, what sort of example would you have had set from you?

Lets see, jail? 

Hmm, three squares a day[ and no dishes], an hour or two of workout time, a nap,watch a little tube, write a letter, go to bed for 8/9 hours sleep........yea real friggin' tough.

I keep sayin' it, [ Thanks Para]..............folks, 99% of jail time is a friggin' joke. Better he did something productive than enjoy relaxing.....

 

[orange.paint]

You tell us, what sort of example would you have had set from you?

Charged with mischief IAW:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec430.html

Think that's pretty fair.

How many of you people demanding a watch be set up on the Memorial would be willing to do it yourself?

Without pay?

1 pers right here.If I was living in the area.Lets face it,I've guarded a regimental Guidon many,many times for no extra pay.Stood guard on a front gate with no ammo many times,no extra pay.What would be the difference?Duties as such should be held in the highest honor/privilege by soldiers.

"Respect and uphold the customs and traditions of the Canadian Forces and of your branch. Honour the memory of those who fought for the freedom of Canada."

Again that's my opinion.

(side note to Bruce)You posted as I was posting.How would someone like this be looked at in our prision system.I have never been inside one.Yourself being a per's who works there,how would someone like this be treated by other inmates?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Most would go for a piss with him next time......

 

[geo]

- In my last post, I asked a question......

What have we (a national we) done to make sure that this sort of thing will never happen again.

Everyone is still talking about crucifying the dunce who did it last year..... what is being done, TODAY, to make sure it isn`t repeated?

 

[career_radio-checker]

- In my last post, I asked a question......

What have we (a national we) done to make sure that this sort of thing will never happen again.

Everyone is still talking about crucifying the dunce who did it last year..... what is being done, TODAY, to make sure it isn`t repeated?

The NWM is right in the middle of Confederation square, it's a high traffic zone, PMO accross the street = security cameras, police presence was extremely high there during the last October 28 "bring the troops home" rally. And Ottawa is full of citizens who will pull right into the middle of the square (in front of the monument) to stop kids from skate bording on the monument (I know, I witnessed it myself before I could even say a word to the little snots  ) That's more 'security' than most government buildings get.

 

[geo]

...Yet we had two peeing incidents anyway.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...Yet we had two peeing incidents anyway.

...and just what would a sentry do to stop someone anyway, put out a drip pan?

 

[Timmy!]

...Yet we had two peeing incidents anyway.

Too bad you couldn't charge the ground with little power, after hours, close to NMW. Then their little wee-wees would get a good zap.


:dontpanic:

 

[geo]

...and just what would a sentry do to stop someone anyway, put out a drip pan?

From personal experience, the simple presence of someone would have motivated the err......pee er to go elsewhere.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Thousands of onlookers didn't.........

I'm not trying to be confrontational here but, stupid drunk people do stupid drunk things and then they sober up and go @#$%@*%

 

[Fry]

Drunk or not, respect is respect. It's evident that this individual was lacking it. I've drank at a bud's house which wasn't far from a WW1 Memorial, but you don't see me pissing on or even near it.

He's been punished, nothing more we can do, really. I think they should close up monuments in locations like that, for the night. That way, if anyone's caught desecrating it in any form, they can also be charged with trespassing. That, or like what many mentioned before, have the reserves guard it, or a volunteer program.

Too many have sacrificed themselves so we can have discussions like this today. We should at least honor what they've done by preventing this from ever happening again.