CBSA: Help Us Catch War Criminals in Canada

[Fishbone Jones]

This will be my last comment on  this subject, as it appears to have derailed the topic, and I admit that the comment was unfair and painted the larger group with a broad brush.

I am not being critical of the way I was being treated. The entire time I was treated in a friendly, professional manner, as I would expect. I wasn't hassled, made to feel like a criminal, talked down to, or lectured. I was forthright with the fact that I had exceeded the limit by a mistake on my part, and was fully prepared to pay any duty, penalties, etc. that were owed. I understood and accepted that the inconvenience that I was experiencing was part of them doing the job.

Since moving to the US in 2001 I've travelled home to Canada at least once a year, and this was the only time I've had issues entering Canada.
Not so when entering the US, but that has more to say about the differences in attitudes from one country to the other.

The problem I had was that no one at that particular crossing was able to figure out a simple conversion. Something that they need to be able to do day in and day out. It's not like I was the first person to bring goods into Canada from the US which was marked in Imperial measures instead of Metric measures. I have a problem with not being able to do the job you are supposed to be trained to do. It's not like they were having difficulty with figuring out what classification the product fell under in the multiple listings for tobacco types, each with it's own tariff rate. It's not like it was a piece of equipment that could fall into one of a hundred different classifications. They were stumped with a simple conversion, something that they learned through out their entire academic career. They even tried to look it up on the office computer, and couldn't find the correct information.

Of course, you volunteered to tell them how to convert it, right?

 

[Good2Golf]

Of course, you volunteered to tell them how to convert it, right?

Maybe the OP didn't realize that the guys might have actually been giving him a break, and were looking for a somewhat believable excuse to do so.  I'm quite sure that had they really wanted to, they could have multiplied oz. by 28.375 to get grams....I think this is called "looking a gift horse in the mouth". 

 

[cupper]

Of course, you volunteered to tell them how to convert it, right?

Apparently the I-Phone app I used to get the correct information for them wasn't trustworthy enough. ;D

Seriously, I showed them the correct info using an app on my I-Phone, and they wouldn't accept it as being correct.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Apparently the I-Phone app I used to get the correct information for them wasn't trustworthy enough. ;D

Seriously, I showed them the correct info using an app on my I-Phone, and they wouldn't accept it as being correct.

At which time, I'm guessing, they were probably thinking to themselves "What does it take for this guy to get the hint that we don't want to charge him?"

Ah well. Guess I'm just lucky that on numerous trips back and forth, I have found our CBSA pers to be professional and personable.

I'll leave it there.

 

[J.J]

This will be my last comment on  this subject, as it appears to have derailed the topic, and I admit that the comment was unfair and painted the larger group with a broad brush.

I am not being critical of the way I was being treated. The entire time I was treated in a friendly, professional manner, as I would expect. I wasn't hassled, made to feel like a criminal, talked down to, or lectured. I was forthright with the fact that I had exceeded the limit by a mistake on my part, and was fully prepared to pay any duty, penalties, etc. that were owed. I understood and accepted that the inconvenience that I was experiencing was part of them doing the job.

Since moving to the US in 2001 I've travelled home to Canada at least once a year, and this was the only time I've had issues entering Canada.
Not so when entering the US, but that has more to say about the differences in attitudes from one country to the other.

The problem I had was that no one at that particular crossing was able to figure out a simple conversion. Something that they need to be able to do day in and day out. It's not like I was the first person to bring goods into Canada from the US which was marked in Imperial measures instead of Metric measures. I have a problem with not being able to do the job you are supposed to be trained to do. It's not like they were having difficulty with figuring out what classification the product fell under in the multiple listings for tobacco types, each with it's own tariff rate. It's not like it was a piece of equipment that could fall into one of a hundred different classifications. They were stumped with a simple conversion, something that they learned through out their entire academic career. They even tried to look it up on the office computer, and couldn't find the correct information.

There are dozens different type of tobacco tariffs, with some having minute differences such as how is it flavoured, is it wine or fruit, where was it manufactured, the amount (if it is more than a certain amount it gets one type of tax etc). Some tobacco is taxed very high and others have the "normal" tax. I found tobacco to be the hardest item to classify due to it's various taxes and the vast differences in the item.  Provincial taxes are always the highest, but if the tobacco was manufactured outside of North America there is now duty and import taxes etc

I doubt the conversion was an issue as the program has it built in.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Easing back into alleged war criminals, #5 is reportedly rounded up....

Tips and information from the Canadian public have resulted in the capture of a fifth individual suspected of being complicit in war crimes or crimes against humanity. This update follows the announcement on July 21, 2011 by the Honourable Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety and the Honourable Jason Kenney, Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, urging Canadians to help in identifying 30 individuals suspected of being complicit in war crimes or crimes against humanity, and who are thought to be hiding out in locations across Canada.  Abraham Bahaty Bayavuge from the Democratic Republic of the Congo was found in Ottawa and is now in CBSA custody ....

Source:  CBSA news release, 28 Jul 11

.... and the nabbed Peruvian should be on his way back shortly:

A suspected war criminal from Peru, who had been hiding illegally in Canada, is being shipped home to face the music.

Manuel De La Torre Herrera, 57, was denied release at a detention review with the Immigration and Refugee Board because is is considered to be an extreme flight risk.

The former police officer in Peru is being escorted back on Friday afternoon.

He came to the GTA in May of 2000 to perform in a music festival and shortly after tried to claim refugee status which was later denied and he went under ground.

"I thank God and Canada that he took me here. I have done nothing wrong. I work here (as a painter) to pay for my children back in Peru," a sobbing Herrera said during the review.

He was arrested in Toronto on Tuesday after a citizen recognized his face that was featured among 30 suspected war criminals sought by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA).

Herrera is alleged to have been involved in state-backed death squads that targeted the then Shining Path guerilla fighters in Peru.

Source:  Toronto Sun, 28 Jul 11

 

[cupper]

I doubt the conversion was an issue as the program has it built in.

No, it was the conversion. The officer that took the tobacco went through the system, figured out the correct tariff rate, but couldn't figure the correct weight to enter. She asked the other officer that was on the desk, the supervisor, and the other officer who was keeping watch on me if they knew how to convert ounces to grams. Two other officers that came in couldn't help either. This went on for 20 minutes. Even after I offered the info.

At which time, I'm guessing, they were probably thinking to themselves "What does it take for this guy to get the hint that we don't want to charge him?"

This went on for 20 minutes inside the building, after spending another 10 minutes going through the car. At no time while I was waiting for a charge did they say anything to me, with the exception of the officer babysitting me, who was discussing the weather in Virginia, and whom I offered the use of the I-Phone app.

So if they were dropping subtle hints, they need to work on their communication skills.
If they were trying to say you don't need to pay, they could have just said go ahead and remember the limit next time.

 

[J.J]

I am not going further derail the original intent of this post. I have my thoughts about this and I will keep them to myself.

Back to the originally scheduled program.

 

[57Chevy]

I think they have done a good job at nabbing some of these numbskulls since the news release dated 21 Jul,
which is what the thread is supposed to be all about.

so can the weights and measures ordeal of the chewing tobacco already.

Thanks  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Amnesty International point:

.... Prioritizing charging individuals with relevant criminal offences, if warranted by the evidence, in Canada or another jurisdiction where a fair trial would be guaranteed ....

Jason Kenney counterpoint:

.... Our primary duty as a government is to protect Canada and Canadians.  Deporting these men discharges this duty and ensures Canada will not become a sanctuary for international war criminals and serious human rights abusers.  We are not obligated to conduct full-blown trials, at the cost of millions of taxpayer dollars, to prosecute every inadmissible individual for crimes committed in distant countries, often decades ago.  In addition to the extraordinary time and cost this would require, it would burden an already-strained legal system and clog our courts with foreign criminals.  Moreover, in many cases the lack of accessible evidence, local witnesses and a meaningful connexion between Canada and the crimes committed would make prosecution a quixotic proposition.  That said, where an individual is the subject of a warrant from a foreign court or tribunal, we will consider turning him over to the appropriate authorities ....

Another counterpoint:

.... you claim to be “concerned about the fact that these cases have been so widely publicized” given the “reputational harm” it may cause these men and the hypothetical risk it may impose on them or their relatives.  No doubt such exquisitely burnished sympathy does you credit.  However, as a former AI member, may I suggest that ostentatious hand-wringing over the good name of war criminals and human rights violators may sit uneasily with those AI members who, perhaps naively, believe your compassion should be reserved for their victims ....

More in the open letters.

 

[The Bread Guy]

MORE criminals (not just war criminals) added to the "help us find them" list!
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/wc-cg/criminality-criminalite-eng.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some info on how long the process might take, in spite of the quick arrests....

"On August 20, 2007, CIC served its first Notice of Revocation of Citizenship to a person suspected of committing war crimes after the Second World War. Branko Rogan was served the Notice for allegedly obtaining his status in Canada by knowingly making false representations and concealing material circumstances regarding his activities as a guard and dealings with prisoners, in the town of Bileca, Bosnia Herzegovina."

April 2011:  Rogan goes to Federal Court of Canada to seek a reversal of the revocation of his citizenship - more on that here.

Can't find anything saying he's been shown the door just yet - and he admitted to lying to get into Canada (while denying the war crime charges).

18 Aug 11:  This just in (PDF) from the Federal Court of Canada

The Minister seeks a declaration that Mr. Rogan obtained his Canadian citizenship by false representation or fraud or by knowingly concealing material circumstances. Upon review, the Court finds that at the time that he was working as a prison guard at the detention facilities in Bileca, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Mr. Rogan was well aware of the fact that prisoners were being subjected to physical abuse, including beatings, that he was directly involved in the physical abuse of prisoners, and that he was not acting under duress. Furthermore, the Court finds that Mr. Rogan knowingly misrepresented his educational qualifications in his application for permanent residence, did not accurately disclose his addresses for the period between 1986 and 1994, misrepresented his employment history, and did not answer truthfully and knowingly concealed material information in relation to his involvement in crimes against humanity perpetrated against the male Muslim civilian population of Bileca in the summer of 1992.  As a result, the Court concludes that Mr. Rogan obtained his Canadian citizenship by false representation or fraud and by knowingly concealing material circumstances.

More in full decision here (PDF).

 

[57Chevy]

                              Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act
Federal government nets three men on wanted list
Robert Hiltz, Postmedia News/23 August
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Federal+government+nets+three+wanted+list/5292570/story.html#ixzz1VqkgYlaO

Twenty-four hours after releasing a most-wanted list of people sought for deportation, the government netted three men - including one charged in a $100-million drug bust in 2004.

Xun Ricky Zhang was apprehended by the Canada Border Services Agency on Thursday in Richmond, B.C. Zhang was first ordered deported in 2005 after serving time in prison for his part in producing ecstasy in a Toronto suburb, according to documents filed in an Immigration and Refugee Board appeal. His final 2008 appeal failed because he spent more than two years behind bars.

Zhang, an immigrant from China, was arrested in 2004 after police tracked him and six other men between two homes and two warehouses in Markham, Ont. York Regional Police found over 1,000 kilograms of liquid and powered ecstasy. At the time, police said the amount of the drug found could have produced 10 million ecstasy pills. Zhang had also been convicted of assault, robbery and theft.

A new most-wanted list was released by the government with the names and photographs of 30 men and two women, immigrants who are wanted for deportation because they were convicted of crimes in Canada.

Another man apprehended by authorities, Reginald King, was ordered deported after a 2003 incident in which he repeatedly tried to enter a Toronto nightclub with a loaded weapon, according to court sentencing documents. King was apprehended Friday in Walford, Ont., a small town in northern Ontario, about 200 kilometres east of Sault Ste. Marie.

Walter Ernesto Guzman surrendered to Montreal police Friday and was handed over to the CBSA. He has been convicted of drug trafficking, assault, break and enter and uttering threats.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A few more add-ons to the list, including an alleged war criminal from Senegal and some other bad apples....

Today, the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) added five new profiles of individuals to the "Wanted by the CBSA" list.

The "Wanted by the CBSA" program has proven to be a useful tool in assisting border services officers to locate individuals who are wanted for removal. To date, as a result of the "Wanted by the CBSA" program, Canadians have assisted in locating 25 individuals in Canada, while five individuals were located abroad. In addition, the CBSA has removed 19 of these individuals from Canada. These five new profiles announced today are featured alongside cases highlighted in the past.

Today, it was also confirmed that Damion Rami Butler, an individual who is on the list for serious criminality, was removed from Canada on May 31. On January 18, Butler was apprehended by the Immigration Task Force (which includes officers from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ontario Provincial Police, Toronto police and the CBSA) in the Greater Toronto Area as a result of a tip received from the public ....

CBSA Info-machine, 4 Jun 12