CBC News Story about Discipline Problems in the CF

[the 48th regulator]

I wonder how many cases of PTSD were pre-existing and people only started coming forward after we went to A'stan?

Excellent question.

However, considering the length of time we have been there, are you suggesting that the MSM has finally seen the results of the cases that they have ignored?  (They being the MSM, albeit the military is just as guilty).  As we should start to be seeing cases of ignored troops, IMO, from the sandbox finally reporting their pain.

Again, good point.

dileas

tess

 

[PMedMoe]

Excellent question.

However, considering the length of time we have been there, are you suggesting that the MSM has finally seen the results of the cases that they have ignored?  (They being the MSM, albeit the military is just as guilty).

I was thinking along the lines of someone who may have had undiagnosed PTSD prior to even joining the military or before we deployed to A'stan.  The MSM spin is that these problems have only come to light since we've been in Afghanistan and are thereby caused by the location of the tour itself.  How many people are included in their results who have never deployed (there or anywhere) or who had a condition that was exacerbated by deployment (and not necessarily this one in particular)?

 

[the 48th regulator]

I was thinking along the lines of someone who may have had undiagnosed PTSD prior to even joining the military or before we deployed to A'stan.   The MSM spin is that these problems have only come to light since we've been in Afghanistan and are thereby caused by the location of the tour itself.  How many people are included in their results who have never deployed (there or anywhere) or who had a condition that was exacerbated by deployment (and not necessarily this one in particular)?

That does not say much about the process of the recruiting, training and integration of people.

I thought you were talking about the stats, as compared to the troops who have suffered before hand, with regards to other operational tours.  I was with you until this post.   :-\

dileas

tess

 

[PMedMoe]

I thought you were talking about the stats, as compared to the troops who have suffered before hand, with regards to other operational tours.  I was with you until this post. 

Actually, that's exactly what I was talking about.  Maybe I just expanded a bit too much.  :-[

That does not say much about the process of the recruiting, training and integration of people.

Personally, I don't remember being interviewed by a psychiatrist or psychologist before getting in (and I wasn't, only interviewed by a Log Officer).  I hope that certain people are "weeded out" before they become a problem, but who's to say what gets by the recruiting process (and other processes)?

After all, some people have lived with conditions for a long time and are very adept at hiding them.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Actually, that's exactly what I was talking about.  Maybe I just expanded a bit too much.  :-[

Personally, I don't remember being interviewed by a psychiatrist or psychologist before getting in (and I wasn't, only interviewed by a Log Officer).  I hope that certain people are "weeded out" before they become a problem, but who's to say what gets by the recruiting process (and other processes)?

After all, some people have lived with conditions for a long time and are very adept at hiding them.

hmm,

Good point.

So what you are suggesting is adding a category of those that have suffered post recruitment sufferers of PTSD to the list.

Maybe we need the MSM or the Government to quantify those that have suffered a traumatic experience, before hand, that have joined. 

dileas

tess

 

[PMedMoe]

hmm,

Good point.

So what you are suggesting is adding a category of those that have suffered post recruitment sufferers of PTSD to the list.

Maybe we need the MSM or the Government to quantify those that have suffered a traumatic experience, before hand, that have joined. 

dileas

tess

Actually, Tess, maybe you're reading too much into my comments (although, I've had a few beer tonight).  What I was trying to say, in a nutshell, is that the article seems to be trying to blame many of the discipline problems and the cases of PTSD on the tour in Afghanistan.

In February 2008, Canadian Press that the number of former soldiers suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder has tripled over a five-year period beginning in 2002, from 1,802 to 6,504. As well, 1,300 Forces members who served in Afghanistan were screened after deployment, with results showing that almost one-third had symptoms that suggested one or more mental health problems.

Maybe the discipline problems and the PTSD are not related to the tour at all or were pre-existing problems that only came to a head after the tour, but were always present.  The tour may be a catalyst for some and/or an excuse for others.

Edit to add:  Maybe some problems aren't post-recruitment but pre-recruitment.  Who knows?  Who has stats on that?

 

[Garett]

I think there is a spike in summary trials during the first few months after a unit redeploys, but its understandable because the young guys have more trouble adapting to the change in environment. I don't think its because of PTSD from what I've seen, just the boys going from being watched by a Sect Comd 24/7 to being home alone playing video games (or whatever else) too late into the night. If you'll read the article you'll also see where it says that 90.8% of people are found guilt at summary trial, that hasn't changed over the years.

 

[North Star]

Did anyone bother to track who was being charged? I mean, let's face it...it could be that the boredom of guys stuck in pat platoons is contributing to the increase in charges filed. To be blunt, the CBC never really did any homework on this...they saw "increase in charges", and then filled in the blanks with speculation and the "A" word.

I also agree with the comment that increased training for Presiding Officers plays a part. I have taken the training myself and can say that after, I was no longer afraid of inadvertently "violating" someone's "rights".

 

[Blackadder1916]

Did anyone bother to track who was being charged? I mean, let's face it...it could be that the boredom of guys stuck in pat platoons is contributing to the increase in charges filed. To be blunt, the CBC never really did any homework on this...they saw "increase in charges", and then filled in the blanks with speculation and the "A" word.

On this I would disagree.  They may be lacking in some understanding about the nuances of summary charges, but so do some serving members (usually the guys who get repeatedly charged), however judging from the article, PA (and perhaps JAG) are the primary ones to blame for any misinterpretation in this article.

CBC News repeatedly asked the public affairs office at the Department of National Defence to supply someone for an interview to help explain the phenomenon. Instead, DND provided e-mail responses to specific questions on the AWOL figures and other numbers. Weeks later, an interview was declined.

Links were provided to JAG annual reports — with the earliest dating from 1998-99 — and these do shed some light on internal concerns about the increase in the number of charges.

The Defence Department said that to provide details of AWOL charges would require staff to look at over 200 pages of documents for each charge.

Recent JAG summary trial reports available online don't make reference to individual bases or exact locations where the charges originated. However, earlier ones from the late 1990s and early 2000 did.