Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan

[Armymedic]

From a legal POV, how can he possibly be convicted of disgraceful conduct if he was found not guilty of the actual acts (murder, attempted murder and negligent performance of duty) the acts for which, presumably, the disgraceful conduct conviction refer to?

I suspect (my personal opinion, not a legal one) he was found not guilty because they could not prove without a reasonable doubt that he committed the murder, or that his actions were those that "a group of reasonable persons in the same situation would have done".

As for dishonourable conduct, to harm a prisoner or to shoot a corpse on the battlefield could be considered such...

just my  :2c:

 

[40below]

Simple, if the panel may have decided that there was doubt about the living status of the casualty and decided he was likely dead or near death. Shooting rounds into the body could easily be considered - disgraceful conduct, as it covers a wide range of actions.

“93. Every person who behaves in a cruel or disgraceful manner is guilty of an offence and on
conviction is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.”

It's a bit like Schroedinger's Cat, isn't it? If he pumped rounds into a living body it was murder or attempted murder; if he was shooting a dead body, it's committing an indignity to a corpse. Neither crime of which he was convicted of. Hence my confusion about how he could be convicted of an act for which he was not convicted.

 

[Michael OLeary]

It's a bit like Schroedinger's Cat, isn't it? If he pumped rounds into a living body it was murder or attempted murder; if he was shooting a dead body, it's committing an indignity to a corpse. Neither crime of which he was convicted of. Hence my confusion about how he could be convicted of an act for which he was not convicted.

Yes, it is like Schroedinger's Cat, without the facts of the case, we can only surmise if the cat is dead or alive.

 

[HavokFour]

To be clear, we still don't know what his sentence will be for disgraceful conduct, so it's not done quite yet.

This summary so far from the CF:

Well in that case I'm going to brace myself for the worst.

I think I'll get a head start and write my angry letters to whom it may concern now.

 

[observor 69]

The CBC National news at 1700 local interviewed their journalist on the Semrau trail results.
After reporting the results form today she said sentencing is still up in the air as the entire credibility of such court martials is under review.?

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

The CBC National news at 1700 local interviewed their journalist on the Semrau trail results.
After reporting the results form today she said sentencing is still up in the air as the entire credibility of such court martials is under review.?

Under review by whom?  I am not sure the civilian catch and release system would work in the military.

 

[Dog Walker]

Under review by whom?  I am not sure the civilian catch and release system would work in the military.

I think that CBC said where is a pending Charter challenge to the court martial system. 

 

[57Chevy]

The entire credibility ?
DND Introduces Amendments To The National Defence Act
OTTAWA - The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, tabled a bill in Parliament today that introduces significant amendments to the National Defence Act . The amendments contained in Bill C-41, the Strengthening Military Justice in the Defence of Canada Act, reflect recommendations made in the 2003 report by the former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the late Right Honourable Antonio Lamer, as well as by the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs in their May 2009 report, Equal Justice: Reforming Canada’s System of Courts Martial .

This bill is the Government’s legislative response to the Lamer Report recommendations. Two similar bills, C-7 in 2006 and C-45 in 2008, were introduced by the Government but did not advance beyond First Reading.

“In acting upon the recommendations in the Lamer Report and the Senate Committee’s Report, we are continuing to ensure that the military justice system is effective, fair and transparent. This bill is part of an ongoing process to ensure that the military justice system remains one in which Canadians can have trust and confidence,” said Minister MacKay. “The amendments will also improve the efficiency of the grievance system and the military police complaints process.”

“This legislation further enhances the effectiveness of the military justice system in serving the operational needs of the Canadian Forces,” said Brigadier-General Blaise Cathcart, Judge Advocate General.

The amendments tabled today will:

* further enhance the independence of military judges;
* enhance the flexibility of the court martial system by establishing a reserve military judges panel;
* expand the pool of Canadian Forces members eligible to serve on a court martial panel;
* provide for additional sentencing options, including absolute discharges, intermittent
* entences and restitution orders;
* improve the efficiency of the grievance and military police complaints processes; and
* establish the position of the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal in legislation and specify the Provost Marshal’s responsibilities.

The Lamer Report was the first independent review of the provisions and operation of Bill C-25, which amended the National Defence Act in 1998. The Senate Committee’s report made a number of recommendations relating to the military justice system.

          (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[SeanNewman]

I am holding to my word of not posting about military law, but as per the MND's statement, anything done to improve the grievance system would be a step in the right direction.

It is simply cripplingly ineffective now, to the point where some members wait over a year with a black financial cloud hanging over their heads before they can get an answer/decision on something they're entitled to.

 

[McG]

The entire credibility ?
DND Introduces Amendments To The National Defence Act

The NDA is regularly amended on a regular review cycle.  This would have nothing to do with calling into question the credibility of Courts Martial or the Military Justice System.

 

[57Chevy]

From the article;
"Semrau faces a maximum of five years of incarceration, but the judge could impose a lesser penalty, including Semrau's dismissal from the Canadian Forces."

Is dismissal considered a lesser penalty ?

 

[Infanteer]

Yes.

 

[57Chevy]

Yes.

Is that because he would automatically get the boot after doing "pen work" for five years ?

 

[dapaterson]

NDA s139 ( http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/N-5/FullText.html ):

Scale of punishments
139. (1) The following punishments may be imposed in respect of service offences and each of those punishments is a punishment less than every punishment preceding it:
(a) imprisonment for life;
(b) imprisonment for two years or more;
(c) dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service;
(d) imprisonment for less than two years;
(e) dismissal from Her Majesty’s service;
(f) detention;
(g) reduction in rank;
(h) forfeiture of seniority;
(i) severe reprimand;
(j) reprimand;
(k) fine; and
(l) minor punishments.

Definition of “less punishment”

(2) Where a punishment for an offence is specified by the Code of Service Discipline and it is further provided in the alternative that on conviction the offender is liable to less punishment, the expression “less punishment” means any one or more of the punishments lower in the scale of punishments than the specified punishment.

 

[40below]

Is that because he would automatically get the boot after doing "pen work" for five years ?

In the absence of the death penalty, taking away a citizen's liberty through confinement is the most powerful sanction that a state can impose. Taking away someone's job falls below that.

 

[tomahawk6]

Captain Semrau is acquitted of the main charge but found guilty and lesser charges is BS. This was more a political trial than a criminal one. The prosecution was never going to get a conviction on the main charge. This is similar to the Haditha case where an officer was acquitted on the main charge but was convicted of making a false statement about an event that never happened. Talk about Orwellian. Bottom line Semrau wont go to prison but his military career is over.

 

[57Chevy]

In the absence of the death penalty, taking away a citizen's liberty through confinement is the most powerful sanction that a state can impose. Taking away someone's job falls below that.

I know. But there are other such lesser punishments as listed in the above scale.
I always thought that you got the boot after doing 2 years or more in jail.
And from what I read in that scale, he could be rewarded a slap on the wrist.

 

[Infanteer]

Captain Semrau is acquitted of the main charge but found guilty and lesser charges is BS. This was more a political trial than a criminal one. The prosecution was never going to get a conviction on the main charge. This is similar to the Haditha case where an officer was acquitted on the main charge but was convicted of making a false statement about an event that never happened. Talk about Orwellian. Bottom line Semrau wont go to prison but his military career is over.

You know it was over as soon as the charges were laid....

 

[40below]

I know. But there are other such lesser punishments as listed in the above scale.
I always thought that you got the boot after doing 2 years or more in jail.
And from what I read in that scale, he could be rewarded a slap on the wrist.

Sorta. Courts martial only have the power to sentence an offender to terms of up to two years less a day at Club Ed. He goes into the federal system if he gets federal time. Here's hoping he doesn't.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Captain Semrau is acquitted of the main charge but found guilty and lesser charges is BS. This was more a political trial than a criminal one. The prosecution was never going to get a conviction on the main charge. This is similar to the Haditha case where an officer was acquitted on the main charge but was convicted of making a false statement about an event that never happened. Talk about Orwellian. Bottom line Semrau wont go to prison but his military career is over.

I could not agree more.  IMO this trial smells more of political optics and pandering to the PC'ness ingrained in parts of today's society.  Thus, why I did not trust the system and was shocked and pleased of the acquittal but disappointed to see a conviction on the lessor charge.  I hate to see the "Rat" even win this much of what I am sure is satisfaction.