Capped course, recruits to wait another year?

[TCBF]

Edit*  WRT to my last post, not TCBFs..."

- Mine too, I was digressing...

;D

Now, back to our scheduled programming:

You are correct. A bit of  "Perseverance" (more than just a word on my hat badge) would serve him well here, and idealy a young recruit is motivated enough to weather set-backs such as a delayed course.  However, in some bellies, the fire is slow to kindle.

 

[Hot Lips]

Does anyone think that if you look around, in our Canadian society we have young individuals who have been pampered and soft? (not all)

Are their attitudes different on a whole then ours were?

We questioned very little when I was in my teens and early twenties...you did what you were told at work and you either learned to like it or you got on with something else but employers did not change their approach or attitude to suit their employees.

If these young people do not like the restrictions or limitations, such as waiting without complaining...well then either be assertive and proactive or whine and fly to hell somewhere else.

My 2 cents

HL

 

[m410]

To the original poster:

Courses are only "capped" at their maximum course load (and sometimes a little above it) as laid out in the Training Plan, which is the course's master document.  At WATC and on Western Area CITY courses they've long abandoned the "optimum course load" in the TP and maximum is the new optimum.  I'm sure your area is the same.  I've taught a couple BMQs over the max course load (one started with 51 candidates in 4 sections).  In my opinion, running courses over the max load, especially platoon tactics courses like BIQ (BMQ and SQ are more about the section size than course size) is irresponsible.  The only way BIQ will be "capped" at your training centre is that it will simply run large instead of huge.

Unfortunately the number of courses running is not sufficient for the current intake of recruits.  This stems from: a) many recruits, b) few instructors.  So some people are going to be left behind.  About 50% of SQ-qualified recruits at my unit won't be getting their course this year unless something changes at the last minute.  Which is a damned dirty shame.  But the army is climbing out of a hole that took 10 years to dig.  We have the money, we don't have the instructors.

For the record, I don't think its pampered and soft to want to be trained promptly.  I'm not sure why your post has drawn such attacks.  Just know that nobody is out to screw the troops here.  Hard decisions are being made but there isn't a lot of choice.

I could do some of your homework and get WATC's reserve BIQ dates but the facts are that there will be no spots for out of area troops if all of 39 CBG gets only 30 spots (split between 4 units).

In the meantime, try to keep morale up amongst those soldiers not getting trained.  The degree of bitterness they take from this experience will be reduced by good leadership and comradeship, and by good training at the unit.

 

[Gasmonkey]

first off, the whole quitting thing, none of them are thinking about quiting, I dont think. I just think its a shame to keep them without training for a whole year, think of all the stuff they can apply there training too, and it also helps keep them motivated, having a hook and all. anyways, I am at a cybercafe and it is closing, will be on in the next couple days.

Thanks to all who replied.

 

[tannerthehammer]

ya that is BS, they should get them on a course somewhere else at least...I'm honestly not shocked at all...It's too bad really...

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

BS? Would you rather have those troops poorly trained, rather than wait another year?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

BS? Would you rather have those troops poorly trained, rather than wait another year?

By sending them to one of the other Area's?  Not sure what you mean...

I will say this, you have a snowball's chance in hell in getting course loaded in LFAA...we don't have enough staff here this summer for ARTS...

 

[TCBF]

" Would you rather have those troops poorly trained, rather than wait another year?"

- What do you mean, poorly trained?  a PO Check is a PO Check.  A Handling Test is a Handling Test.  More damage is done to the CF by 'passing failures' on orders from above than by overloading courses.  Most will remember CFRS Corwallis's platoon barracks holding 120 optimal or 160 maximum - platoons over 100 were common.  It was nothing to have half of the eighteen platoons zero loaded and still have one thousand recruits in house.  Whoever arrived by plane, bus, car, train or boat by Sunday night was in that week's pick-up platoon.  Maybe 48 this week, maybe 137 the next. The org was a Pl Comd (WO or Sgt), a Trg Sgt, four Squad NCOs (MCpls) and four squads of thirty or more recruits each. 

Long hours? Yes - but so what?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I remember that TCBF (from a recruit perspective that is  ;D).

12 Platoon, Course 8930.

On top of our 125ish recruits were started with, in 6 squads, then there was all of the RTU canoe's that were sent to us...5 atleast I think??

Maybe its time for some "outside the box" thinking on how to get on with the missions, and train the newbies too.  I know in our Area, everyone who can be used is being used, including staff from the HQ.  Unit C Clk's are teaching on SQs, etc etc. 

 

[pissedpat]

From what I have heard from the grumpy people I have run into over the last few years, LFWA is a bit bad for poorly bumping courses, or more specificaly mishandeling the responce to courses cancelled or over filled out east. Buddy from my unit reported to Bordon ready for his QL5 weaptech only to be informed after arriving there that it had been cancelled, a infinteer I spent some time in Wainwright last year with fumed a bit about getting to the airport only to be informed that his ticket had been cancelled with the note attached to the cancelation "course cancelled" This is more of a left hand not knowing what the right is doing and specificly a chain in command breakdown for the passage of information, likely near the unit level in some cases, brigade in others. "Capped" or cancelled courses will unfortunetly be around untill there are enough instructers, trainging days and budgets to feed the entire army. And even once everything is perfect shit happens and some people will not get their course. Maybe next year.

 

[The_Pipes]

When I did my DP1/BIQ there was someone from my unit on our course who had just gotten his course, after four years of being in. Meaning he was jerked around by the system for 4 years... being SQ qualified for 4 years. Did he complain, did he quit? No and currently he's up in Pet on his Mod 6 Inf. Good things happen for those who wait. Look on the brightside if you didn't get it then you can do a year with your unit and go up next summer and have already DONE and LEARNED most of what will be covered on course and it'll be easier for you and you can have a better chance at top candidate. I myself was given the IPSW course last summer. I show up to get on the mass bus up to Meaford and right before stepping on the bus I'm told it was cancelled and take all my kit home all bitter, but it wasn't the end of the world... Nothing to quit over. Others were given drivers courses and actually made it up to Meaford before they were told their course was cancelled. Sometimes one just has to suck it up and soldier on.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

To a point ( there IS a point where jerking people around is NOT ON ) I agree, but...there should still be MAJOR efforts underway to make this not an acceptable practice.

We SHOULD be able to train the people that volunteer and are EAGER to serve to the best of their capacity.

LFAA is now running 2 Platoons of YRAP instructors (Year Round ARTS Program).  BMQ to PLQ as I understand, is their mandate.  Not sure if this includes Combat Arms MOC courses, but you might see something like this in your own LFCA TC/LFWA TC and SQFT to help get troops thru their courses to being PCF (do we still use that term???) qualified.

The wheels turn, slower, however they turn in the big green machine.  Fixes, not perfect ones, will come.
I mean, think of it...they DID finally issue everyone the new CADPAT rain gear...wait.  No they didn't.

But..the wheels turn !
Mud

 

[The_Pipes]

LFCA [31CBG anyway] seems to be striving to train instructors so that these situations don't happen and there's plenty of people to instruct on courses even with all those tasked out and on rottos. So it would appear things are going to change for the better... but as I tried to portray in my last post, not getting a course is no reason to quit [although I have heard less legitimate ones ;D]

 

[pissedpat]

The wheels turn, slower, however they turn in the big green machine.  Fixes, not perfect ones, will come.
I mean, think of it...they DID finally issue everyone the new CADPAT rain gear...wait.  No they didn't.

Well, they have finally issued everyone CADPAT uniforms... I guess that is a good sign. Up until a year ago new recruits were still getting olive drab from some units. People that were NES for the last few years still turn it in today. I am not holding my breath on the rain gear, I recognize that oxygen is more important then being colour coordinated in bad weather.

Pat