CAP vs. other infantry courses

[30 for 30]

Question regarding Common Army Phase:

Can anyone assess whether one leaves this course (9 or so weeks long) with...

A similar level of infantry training to that learned on a reserve pte's inf crse?
A similar level of inf trg to that learned on a regular pte's inf crse?
Neither?

Thanks for any input.

 

[medaid]

I say no. CAP candidates do not learn to use the C6, Carl G, M72 or 60mm (which I believe are all part of your DP1 Inf course, reg or reserve). CAP is a very compacted and rushed combination of SQ basics (patrolling, section attacks, C7/C9/Grenade/9mm quals) and PLQ basics (lead a patrol, lead a section attack etc).  Thats the best way to describe it.

And it's 11 weeks long.

C6 & Carl G are covered at the SQ level for NCMs.

 

[Big Foot]

And it's 11 weeks long.

Just a quick little correction, the OIC of CAP stated at RMC MOC Weekend back in March that CAP is now 10 weeks long, and that candidates will be living in a tent city.

 

[armyvern]

10 weeks. Tent city. And, oh what a tent city it is building up to be. It's going to be a busy, busy, busy summer around here.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

10 weeks. Tent city. And, oh what a tent city it is building up to be. It's going to be a busy, busy, busy summer around here.

Must be up by the old Range Control gate/water tower is it? 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

10 weeks. Tent city. And, oh what a tent city it is building up to be. It's going to be a busy, busy, busy summer around here.

Wonder where they are going to put it?

I know that CFSME has just expanded its semi-permanent Tent City to make room for the influx of the Reserve Engineer Serials.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

First a correction to my last post, I spent 11 weeks on CAP.

ArmyVern, tent city for CAP eh? Last summer I remember a fairly large tent city for all the 'Mo courses, but the CAP courses were in the shacks. Whats the deal?  

That would have been only for CFSME, I haven't seen anywhere else on Base Gagetown (proper) that tents are used.

 

[armyvern]

Wonder where they are going to put it?

I know that CFSME has just expanded its semi-permanent Tent City to make room for the influx of the Reserve Engineer Serials.

Have you seen the schedule for this upcoming summer block??

A few hundred more (a lot more hundreds actually) students being run through = more tents required to house the overflow.

If you thought it was a booming canvas city last year --- wait for the metropolis that's coming this year. It'll probably visible from the Space Shuttle.

NFLD Sapper, LFAA (TC) housed some of their candidates under canvas last year as well IIRC.

Anway, the concrete pads are going down, the water lines are being run ...

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Have you seen the schedule for this upcoming summer block??

A few (a lot more hundreds actually) hundred more students being run through = more tents required to house the overflow.

If you thought it was a booming canvas city last year --- wait for the metropolis that's coming this year. It'll probably visible from the Space Shuttle.

(NFLD Sapper, LFAA (TC) housed some of their candidates under canvas last year as well IIRC)

Hadn't noticed that Vern as I usually passed right by M-5 and the L-Lines.

Still begs the question where in the hell are they going to set them up to?

 

[Redeye]

Other than the fact that it's run by the Infantry School, it's a stretch to call it an infantry course - it really isn't.

So they're going under canvas for the whole summer?!  Wow.  That sucks.  I guess stacking 8 to a room in H-3 just wasn't doing the trick anymore.  Am I ever glad that's behind me - it was still pretty comfy there when I went through!

 

[armyvern]

Other than the fact that it's run by the Infantry School, it's a stretch to call it an infantry course - it really isn't.

So they're going under canvas for the whole summer?!   Wow.  That sucks.  I guess stacking 8 to a room in H-3 just wasn't doing the trick anymore.  Am I ever glad that's behind me - it was still pretty comfy there when I went through!

There'll STILL be students stacked 8/room in students quarters. That's not changing.

Things like this are what happens when one increases by 150% the number of students coming through during peak time periods --- with ZERO increase to infrastructure or support resources required to look after them.

I'm quite glad that I will not be amongst those candidates this year, although there are a vast number of people doing huge things to try to accomodate all of them in as comfortable a manner as we possibly can.

I'm actually quite glad that I'm not of the EME type here these days, although we are of the same branch; their VOR rate is going to be phenomenal ... and I'm still not convinced they'll be able to sustain sp in an adequate fashion to ensure viable completion of training for all those going through. The tree limbs here -- are getting pretty heavy and extremely fatigued.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

There'll STILL be students stacked 8/room in students quarters. That's not changing.

Things like this are what happens when one increases by 150% the number of students coming through during peak time periods --- with ZERO increase to infrastructure or support resources required to look after them.

I'm quite glad that I will not be amongst those candidates this year, although there are a vast number of people doing huge things to try to accomodate all of them in as comfortable a manner as we possibly can.

Hmm... maybe CTC HQ should move out of the H-Lines and construct a new HQ building, that would at least give some more rooms back for courses.  ;D

 

[McG]

Other than the fact that it's run by the Infantry School, it's a stretch to call it an infantry course - it really isn't.

There may be a reason that the name changed (6 years + back) from BIOC Ph II to CAP ... and it was a common course for at least a handful of years before the name changed.

Dropping a week is IMHO a bad idea.

Maybe there will be more better use made of the weekends.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

How is the base infastructure going to support this summer's trg then? I'm thinking about the mess hall and supply....the current mess hall could BARELY handle the number that were there last summer (lines out the door and around the building) and that was with 2 RCR's shacks being empty (them being overseas and all). They did a superb job feeding everyone, but I'm trying to imagine how they are going to manage with the increase that Vern says is happening plus the fact that this summer 2 RCR's troops are going to be there and they need to eat too (those who live in the shacks).

And as for supply...again, last summer there were (what appeared to be) big time shortages of field kit for all the courses. C9 parts weren't there, threadbare nuke bags issued in lieu of small packs to those who didn't already have them (90% of the CAP candidates), no replacement tac vests if you broke one, boot/helmet/gas mask/rucks/you name it shortages. Again, supply did a GREAT job with what they had....but how are they going to manage this summer then.

Aldershot can only absorb so many extra courses.

My 2 cent solutions:

1. Use the flying kitchens and mess tents (might be in short supply this year)

2. Everyone coming for CAP should have everything issued at THEIR supporting Base and not by 3 ASG (well emergency issues not withstanding)


BTW which RCR shacks are you refering too?

If you mean D-27 IIRC it belongs to CTC/3 ASG and not The RCR's eventhough The RCR crest is still up on the shack

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Weekends? What are those? We spent (most, we did get a one or two full weekends off that summer) our friday nights marking time in PT gear + gas masks (nice and sweaty, attracting all the skeeters) until 11pm. Then Saturday morning doing some more Confirmation of Combat Knowledge, the afternoon and Sunday until 4pm was then 'free' to us to clean kit for Sunday night's kit inspections after weapons draw...which went to 11pm again and then back to the weekly grind. IMHO, CAP candidates NEED their weekends to rest and clean kit for the following week.

I remember last summer, however, that many of the reserve engineer courses didn't get weekends off. They trained 6 days a week, with Sunday off to clean kit.

Umm.... yes and no

Each course had a "Project" to do whether it was build picnic tables for the Maritime Club, constructing a walking trail or improving the demo stands at SW-6.

BTW kit is cleaned every night and NOT just on the weekends.

EDITED TO ADD

This was for the NCM courses not sure on the Officers side of the house.

 

[armyvern]

How is the base infastructure going to support this summer's trg then? I'm thinking about the mess hall and supply....the current mess hall could BARELY handle the number that were there last summer (lines out the door and around the building) and that was with 2 RCR's shacks being empty (them being overseas and all). They did a superb job feeding everyone, but I'm trying to imagine how they are going to manage with the increase that Vern says is happening plus the fact that this summer 2 RCR's troops are going to be there and they need to eat too (those who live in the shacks).

And as for supply...again, last summer there were (what appeared to be) big time shortages of field kit for all the courses. C9 parts weren't there, threadbare nuke bags issued in lieu of small packs to those who didn't already have them (90% of the CAP candidates), no replacement tac vests if you broke one, boot/helmet/gas mask/rucks/you name it shortages. Again, supply did a GREAT job with what they had....but how are they going to manage this summer then.

Aldershot can only absorb so many extra courses.

We are going to do it by working our asses off and doing the best we can with the resources that we have. That's all we can do. Want to imagine -- just harken back to how this base looked when 2 RCR was still in-house and the rest of the BG was here too training for TF1-07 deployment. There's plenty of remarks in a thread relating to the shittiness of that occurance.

No doubt, we'll be the ones to suffer the bitching that is associated with long lineups for clothing, kit, food etc ... but we'll be doing the very best we can with what we have.

The Army is indeed growing. Well at least the HARD Army is growing. Sadly though, all those huge increases in hard army manning levels which have been witnessed in recent years (with huge growth this year and next forecast) ... did not trickle down.

The Head has grown exponentially, yet somewhere in the process the tail has become neglected and is still manned as a Priority 6 VCDS manning priority rate at year 2000 manning levels. That's pre-9/11 for crying out loud -- and we have not been increased a bit to accomodate for the rest of the Army's huge growth either PY-wise or infrastructure wise. In fact, we've LOST positions here on this base from those Y2K Pri 6 levels.

That's not a choice we made, but it's one we get to deal with --- and we'll do the very best that we can; unfortunately ... we will only be able to sustain that for so long before that tree branch comes crashing to the ground. The CoC is trying hard to get us extra funding to deal with this temporarily (SWE to hire civ staff tempo to assist in the summer etc), but it's going to have to get fixed permanently if the Army wants to continue it's rapid growth. The stress levels on the sp soldiers here and on their families is already strained to it's max.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

IMHO, CAP candidates NEED their weekends to rest and clean kit for the following week.

All training is for war, and war is hell.  There are no weekends off in war, I hope they can handle that.  I have a friend who is a Traf Tech who, the last I heard, was on his 109th straight day of work. ( 12 hours shifts minimum IIRC on his last tour at KAF. )

 

[NL_engineer]

Have you seen the schedule for this upcoming summer block??

A few hundred more (a lot more hundreds actually) students being run through = more tents required to house the overflow.

If you thought it was a booming canvas city last year --- wait for the metropolis that's coming this year. It'll probably visible from the Space Shuttle.

NFLD Sapper, LFAA (TC) housed some of their candidates under canvas last year as well IIRC.

Anway, the concrete pads are going down, the water lines are being run ...

Where are they being built?  I have only taken one trip down that way this year, it doesn't look any different then last year. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No, really?

Maybe if you stop bitching and moaning about how OCdts need weekends off because they have boo-boo's...people will stop pointing out stuff like that out.  And getting all cocky as a 21 year old OCdt on here isn't probably going to help.  But feel free.

 

[medaid]

Maybe if you stop bitching and moaning about how OCdts need weekends off because they have boo-boo's...people will stop pointing out stuff like that out.  And getting all cocky as a 21 year old OCdt on here isn't probably going to help.  But feel free.

Want to talk about wars and training? How bout we're not training like we should be fighting? How about the equipment provided for the candidates are often falling apart and even after exchange are still falling apart?

Sure there's no weekend off in war, but guess what? Training isn't war. You also get HLTA remember?

Good one on OCdts need weekends off because they have boo-boos. Because YOU have never been injured and had to take time off? Because MCpls, Sgt, Capt, WO, Maj have NEVER been injured during their career that's forced them to take time off? Give me a break. Quit talking out of your ass.

They cram allot of info into a VERY short amount of time. Often times you don't have enough time to absorb or rest. Why do you think CAP has one of the highest injury and failure rates for courses in the Army? One of, not the highest.