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CANFORGEN on Pay and PIL

........and what happens to the Income Tax adjustment that I declare for my retirement year when the payout doesn't come for two more fiscal calendar (RevCan) years?

Do I have to keep reapplying hoping that it will eventually be payed out and I didn't miss the deadline?

If this was MP pensions, or severence, Parliment would be tied in knots and all other business in Canada would stop until it was fixed for them.

It would seem that both programs, administered by the CF, are just dog fuck time wasters, hoping everyone will just get frustrated and go away without getting their just payment.

Tommy

I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, ``We serve no red-coats here.''
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy, go away'';
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music 'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy, wait outside'';
But it's ``Special train for Atkins'' when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's ``Special train for Atkins'' when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Tommy how's yer soul?''
But it's ``Thin red line of 'eroes'' when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's ``Thin red line of 'eroes'' when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an ``Tommy, fall be'ind,''
But it's ``Please to walk in front, sir,'' when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's ``Please to walk in front, sir,'' when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an'schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Chuck him out, the brute!''
But it's ``Saviour of 'is country,'' when the guns begin to shoot;
Yes it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool--you bet that Tommy sees!

Rudyard Kipling
 
recceguy said:
I've heard that once you retire, it'll take 2-3 years to receive either one, if you're a Reservist. Severance or pension. So it doesn't matter if they are two different distinct issues and definitely not inter-linked, you're still not getting them in a timely fashion.

God forbid if you need your pension payments for mortgages and the like once you retire.
 
Chief Stoker said:
God forbid if you need your pension payments for mortgages and the like once you retire.

That seems to hold no sway with Ottawa. Your predicament is yours. They answer to no one, nor are they beholden to you to give you what is your's in a timely and legal fashion.

Basically, it's "We'll get to you when we get to you and we don't care whether it's your entitled money or not. You are not the boss of us."

I removed the expletive, but it had to do with sex and goats. ;)
 
When I retire, since I made pension payments on time, I would expect it to be the CF's responsibility to return the favor and make those pension payments on time. Is that too much to ask for?
 
I believe there was a CANFORGEN on having your pension delayed because of the PIL wasn't there?
 
Thanks for the Kipling recce.  It's sad to say and think that it will never not be relevant to the experiences of the  troops of yesterday, today or tomorrow.  :(
 
meni0n said:
When I retire, since I made pension payments on time, I would expect it to be the CF's responsibility to return the favor and make those pension payments on time. Is that too much to ask for?

Bingo.

If they can watch it close enough to send me a notice when my payment is $5 short, they should be able to administer the payout with equal zeal.

George's comments are irrelevant to the discussion. This is something I paid into with a reasonable expectation to be treated fairly, timely and competently.

I would expect that if they had to pay the exorbitant compound interest that they charged us to buy back in, on their late payment, they would soon get their shit together and start the cheque machine.

Standard caring seems to be "Tough shit. Live with it."
 
meni0n said:
When I retire, since I made pension payments on time, I would expect it to be the CF's responsibility to return the favor and make those pension payments on time. Is that too much to ask for?

I retired in Sept from multiple Service periods (Reg -> class a/c -> Reg) and had no issues having the pension start as forecast. You are told when to expect initial payment which is normally paid out at the end of the following month for any given month, in this case the first month was Sept so the initial pension came in at the end of Oct. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pen/pa-ap/pb-pp-eng.asp applies. The 4-8 week gap is a result of Forces pay being at the beginning of a pay period whilst the pension is the following month at the end of the period.

On the other hand I was told that it would be 12-15 weeks before I would see the severance pay. So far the only document sent was the calculation from OW which was erroneous and different than the same calculation done by the release office. I do not expect this to be resolved for a while yet.

Edited to better explain the time period
 
I'm pretty fuzzy on how the PiL verification process would/could affect when you might start receiving your CFSA annuity on release, but regardless...

Someone in this particular situation might want to point out the definition of "immediate annuity" in the CFSA:

immediate annuity” means an annuity that becomes
payable to the contributor immediately
on his becoming entitled thereto"


Immediately, not 6, 12, or 24 months later when they get around to sorting this mess out.
 
I know they said they can't tell you the progress of your file but it would be nice to know they received your file.
 
Sheep Dog AT said:
I know they said they can't tell you the progress of your file but it would be nice to know they received your file.

All the documents being sent utilize another document called a 728.  Your OR will receive a copy of it back when the addressee gets what was sent.
 
Just got a letter today from Archives.  They inform me that they may not be making the allotted time and it could take them 6 months.  Well I'm afraid I need to have the severance paper work in by Mar.  At least they were kind enough to direct me to the complaints department.
 
Has there been any talk about a dispute process if a member does not agree with the information used by PIL team in Ottawa to calculate the years of service? Obviously, if a member plans on taking the full amount and it will take six months to get an answer from archives then one will have to take the risk of making the election, putting all as the years of eligible service, and hoping the PIL team gets it right.

Our orderly room has actually said not to put in ATI requests, as this will definitely hold up a members file. I see the logic in this, because the PIL team, who will also need to see the same file, will have to wait until the ATI office is done with it, all to find the same information.
 
I actually got a call from them today. She informed me they gotten find anything and will now see if they can track down my pay records. So I think it was a good idea to send in my info.
 
captloadie said:
Has there been any talk about a dispute process if a member does not agree with the information used by PIL team in Ottawa to calculate the years of service? Obviously, if a member plans on taking the full amount and it will take six months to get an answer from archives then one will have to take the risk of making the election, putting all as the years of eligible service, and hoping the PIL team gets it right.

See below:

16. What should a member do if they disagree with the estimate of their service?

If the member does not agree with their estimate of years of eligible service, members should contact their Unit Orderly Room. Members may be asked to provide documentation supporting previous service. Questions concerning the estimate form should be directed to the member’s Unit Orderly Room. It is important to act promptly if there is a discrepancy, as the election period will not be extended for any reason.
 
I asked that exact question a few months ago and the OUTCAN coord folks told me that due to the amount of incorrect records, they're reviewing the files and asking us to wait.  I'll find and repost the email when I'm in next.
 
ARMY_101 said:
See below:
Great, you quote an FAQ that doesn't answer the question. Unit orderly rooms still only have access to the same sources of information that a member would through a ATI request. All files where greater than 50% or prior service is involved will be reviewed by the PIL team. They will make a determination based on their research. What is the redress for members that don't agree, or have proof that the years of eligible service used by the PIL team is incorrect?
 
captloadie said:
Great, you quote an FAQ that doesn't answer the question. Unit orderly rooms still only have access to the same sources of information that a member would through a ATI request. All files where greater than 50% or prior service is involved will be reviewed by the PIL team. They will make a determination based on their research. What is the redress for members that don't agree, or have proof that the years of eligible service used by the PIL team is incorrect?

The unit OR should be communicating directly with the PIL (DMCA 4) team, or the member could.
 
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