CANFORGEN 97/08 LDA FAQs

[armyvern]

Excellent point,I hadnt thought of it that way (due to the fact I know I'm safe for a while!)So add to the fact that you can't deploy anymore,or do your job anymore,you also loose a bucket load of money going to instruct.... and still spend lots of time in the field too ...  :

Edited to ensure accuracy.  >

Everyone knows that Army Courses ... don't go in the field I guess, nor apparently do their instructors.

Can I shut down the busiest POL section in the CF now - who needs it anymore ?? 

 

[armyvern]

I thought the members in the schools in Gagetown where in the field ALL the time.

Well, I used to see mine sometimes ...

But, you've got it pretty much bang on.

 

[Harris]

So I assume Reg Force pers posted to Reserve Units will not be entitled either?

 

[X-mo-1979]

I thought the members in the schools in Gagetown where in the field ALL the time.

Not all the time.We did come back in to sign course reports and take over the next course going out.

And Vern is right,I spent more time in the field in Gagetown that I would in Petawawa (not during this work up training from hell) normally.

I guess it depends if the unit OC's go to the field I guess. ;D

Oh well,I'm not in Gagetown anymore.

So I assume Reg Force pers posted to Reserve Units will not be entitled either?

Nope nada penny.Where some guy's get sent to have a break...end's up being a break in the bank account.

 

[aesop081]

So I assume Reg Force pers posted to Reserve Units will not be entitled either?

That would make sense since the entitelment for the land duty allowance is tied to the unit you are posted to. Reserve units are not entitled to land duty allowance therefore its members, RegF or ResF are not entitled to it.

 

[PiperDown]

I may be way out of my line here, but the big surprise for me is all the MP units getting field pay..

 

[footslogger]

Yeah, I can see some of the instructors here at the school in Wx being a little upset at this turn of events.  There was some speculation that we were going to recieve this new allowance.  Oh well, posted back to Battalion next month anyways.  Can't see this being a very good way to attract people to want to come here, no PLD, no field allowance, can't get leave in the summer, worked like dogs, could go on and on....

 

[armyvern]

Just a question: Doesn't it say in the instruction that any month with 10+ casual days counts for a point right?

So.. it's not a TOTAL 100% COMPLETE waste (just 95%) being in a place like Gagtown at the schools, you'll still get points for being out on those CAP, DP, etc etc courses.....you just won't get the allowance paid automatically each and every month like other people, right?

So it definitely sucks at the time but it should still add up when you are in receipt of the allowance again...

Is this right? Or is my thinking totally off base here?

No, you're correct in that the instructors would collect casual and accumulate 1 point for a month with 10+ (which essentially means they'll get the casual rate +1 point every month.

Meanwhile ... some of the Units below (say one of those MP PLs) will collect their points and the full field pay every month ... whilst serving not a day in the field that month.

I guess that's the kick in the teeth you knew had to happen to someone (as it occurs with every new policy) -- this time it's CTC, CFSME, and LFAA (TC) getting 'er square in the gonads again ... BOHICA

 

[blacktriangle]

Wow they shafted the schools. No incentive to get a PLQ here!

 

[X-mo-1979]

Whats the difference.The D/S need drivers admin Nco's,en force

 

[MJP]

Wow they shafted the schools. No incentive to get a PLQ here!

Meh 6 of one and half a dozen of another.  I really feel for the instructors that do go to the field incredible amounts of the time and hopefully with the 10 days+ thingy they won't be getting left behind their peers in Bn.  That said there are tons and tons of people at all TCs that never see the field except for extremely busy times when they are pressed into service for short periods of time. 

Some of you see it as a detriment for people wanting to be posted to schools.  Where I see it as incentive for some long time school clingers to get back into the game and let some other guys have a break from operations for a few years.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If the criteria is the unit or individual should be expected to be in the field for 60 days in a year (which I thought was one of the criteria) I don't see how staff at the schools wouldn't qualify.  I have no idea how the MP's operate so I won't comment on their field expectations.

 

[PO2FinClk]

If the criteria is the unit or individual should be expected to be in the field for 60 days in a year (which I thought was one of the criteria)

That is correct, CO's reported back these expected amounts of time to be spent the field annually. So if a unit did not report back accurately, then they can now see themselves being left out.

 

[vonGarvin]

In my time at the Armour School (for three years), on average, I spent more time in the field in any of the given three years than I have spent in the past year: and I'm in a unit on the road to high readiness. 
Here I've spent roughly 2.5 months in the field since last August.  In the year prior to that, at the school, where I was in STANDARDS (not even one of the "lucky" ones who did course after course) I would easily spend over 2.5 months out of 12 in the sticks.

But here's the catcher.  As staff, you rotate in and out of the field.  So, you head out at 6 am on day 1, return at 6 am on day 2, go back out at 6 am on day 3 and so forth.  No FOA entitlement, even though you are virtually in the field for the entire time.  You see, you get back home at around 8 am (no sleep from the day "in the field", doing assessments, paperwork, etc), get home.  Get a nap.  Get up.  Go to sleep.  Up at 4 am, etc ad nauseum.

All this to spare the school the field pay because it came from their budget.  In the end, who gets it?  The individual.

And another thing: some people would spend so much time in the field, they looked forward to going to "field" units to get a stable home life!  Especially the drivers at the Armour School.  Heck, we'd have a parade, I'd see some Cpls, think that they were candidates, only to be told "No, they've been here for three years now...".  Wow, just wow.

 

[X-mo-1979]

In my time at the Armour School (for three years), on average, I spent more time in the field in any of the given three years than I have spent in the past year: and I'm in a unit on the road to high readiness. 
Here I've spent roughly 2.5 months in the field since last August.  In the year prior to that, at the school, where I was in STANDARDS (not even one of the "lucky" ones who did course after course) I would easily spend over 2.5 months out of 12 in the sticks.

But here's the catcher.  As staff, you rotate in and out of the field.  So, you head out at 6 am on day 1, return at 6 am on day 2, go back out at 6 am on day 3 and so forth.  No FOA entitlement, even though you are virtually in the field for the entire time.  You see, you get back home at around 8 am (no sleep from the day "in the field", doing assessments, paperwork, etc), get home.  Get a nap.  Get up.  Go to sleep.  Up at 4 am, etc ad nauseum.

All this to spare the school the field pay because it came from their budget.  In the end, who gets it?  The individual.

And another thing: some people would spend so much time in the field, they looked forward to going to "field" units to get a stable home life!  Especially the drivers at the Armour School.  Heck, we'd have a parade, I'd see some Cpls, think that they were candidates, only to be told "No, they've been here for three years now...".  Wow, just wow.

How many times did we wake up and be heading out the gateway at 5h00?
When they posted me there they told me how great it was, cause you got a schedule for the full year and you could plan with your family!Honey I may be home for a week in june!(until some useless idoit couldnt go to the field...again.)

 

[PiperDown]

The designation on who gets "Field unit" status and who doesn't came from recommendations from unit COs.

Obviously someone was looking out for the interests of the MP units, and conversely no-one was looking out for the interests of some of our training establishments.
I do know that some combat arm schools have instructors with more time in field than field units... but, someone in that system decided that because instructors don't always sleep in the field (I know, the 2 hour break to go back to garrison every other day is not much of a break) they don't require field unit designation.

Hopefully as time goes on, some of these units will revisit their decision.

Cheers,

 

[armyvern]

Some of you see it as a detriment for people wanting to be posted to schools.  Where I see it as incentive for some long time school clingers to get back into the game and let some other guys have a break from operations for a few years.

Nice thought -- although I tend to disagree with the thought that "clingers" are keeping some of those guys who need breaks out of the not-so-highly-coveted instructor positions within the schools.

After all, the line-up isn't that long - if it even really exists - for those in the Bns to give up their PLD, Field Pay, and 'other-than-New Brunswick' lower provincial tax rates and the opportunity to earn all that tax-free cash now being garnered on deployments. Especially so if they're currently situated in that big booming town of Edmonton and would have to see their wife come here to low economy and decreased employment opportunities.

Although clingers do exist, I'd be quite willing to lay my hard earned cash on it being more a matter of those combat troops refusing to come to this location, not the other way around.

 

[MJP]

Nice thought -- although I tend to disagree with the thought that "clingers" are keeping some of those guys who need breaks out of the not-so-highly-coveted instructor positions within the schools.

After all, the line-up isn't that long - if it even really exists - for those in the Bns to give up their PLD, Field Pay, and 'other-than-New Brunswick' lower provincial tax rates and the opportunity to earn all that tax-free cash now being garnered on deployments. Especially so if they're currently situated in that big booming town of Edmonton and would have to see their wife come here to low economy and decreased employment opportunities.

Although clingers do exist, I'd be quite willing to lay my hard earned cash on it being more a matter of those combat troops refusing to come to this location, not the other way around.

LOL I never said there was a line-up.......geez that would imply that people consider it a good go

I realize your talking about one location and I'm basing my observations on the 3 TCs I'm familar with and applying it to all but looking at our postings in/out list on our M drive I only see two cancellations of postings out (of NCOs/officers that would be instructors) and one of the guys is overseas right now.  However I see 4 confirmed cancellations of postings from instructors not wanting to leave various TCs.  One I know for sure doesn't want to leave becasue he has a nice side business on the go.  Coming to Bn would ruin his precious business plan.  There is always two sides of the coin, I know personally I don't want to go to a school but was willing to go after TF3-09 to have a break.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Ok I can see your point about not physically staying out in the field for the instructors as technically they didn't spend the minimum required amount.  What about those staff tasked to drive candidates around or demo platoon or enemy force that do stay in the field for the duration.  Do they need to apply individually now?

 

[X-mo-1979]

Some of you see it as a detriment for people wanting to be posted to schools.  Where I see it as incentive for some long time school clingers to get back into the game and let some other guys have a break from operations for a few years.

Why would it?The school tool's are use to living off their pay,as they have been in NB since J-7 was built.The guy's there will not get use to an extra 700 dollars a month,as a sgt getting posted to the school will be losing money.