CANFORGEN 97/08 LDA FAQs

[Scoobie Newbie]

Please lets keep it on point here.  I love tangents as much as the next guy but for this topic lets keep it to the pertinent questions and answers.

 

[Timmy!]

Now what about us Garrison folks that are on BDF? It would be pretty sweet to get FOA while waiting for a phone call.  ;D

 

[NCRCrow]

So Navy on BDF could collect Sea Pay and Field Pay...I see nothing!!

You're kidding right?

 

[aesop081]

Funny thing now we have cpl's making much more than some Sgt's!

Hardly anything new......

 

[dapaterson]

Here's a question, with CFSME being designated a field unit (says the grape vine) how would this work out for those of us who go there to support courses but are also on TD?

(points to dapaterson for the answer  ;D)

Did I hear my name?

I THINK an augmentee would receive the casual allowance for days in the field.  For those days, you wouldn't get incidentals.  If attach-posted to a unit entitled, you'd receive the allowance.

However, before you go spending your lucre, wait for the official messages and policies to come out...

 

[NCRCrow]

What criteria makes up the definition of a Field Unit?

What about units with a Base Side such as 2 Svc Battalion?

Do they get the Field Pay entitlement?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Cmbt Arms would be field units.  Any one attached to them from logistics would also get it.  If parade with the base you won't be entitled

 

[armyvern]

Careful there.

When I was 2 Svc Bn ... I brought more home a year in field pay (every year!!) than my husband The RCR who was serving with the Airborne Regt.

After all -- Svc Bns are in the field for Coy exs, Bn exs, Brigade exs, supporting other Units' exs ...

1st Line field Units are first line field Units; that's not limited necessarily to "Combat Arms" Units. Think 2 Fd Amb etc.

 

[George Wallace]

Careful there.

When I was 2 Svc Bn ... I brought more home a year in field pay than my husband The RCR who was serving with the Airborne Regt.

After all -- Svc Bns are in the field for Bn exs, Brigade exs, supporting other Units' exs ...

1st Line field Units are first line field Units. Not necessarily Combat Arms Units. Think 2 Fd Amd etc.

That was before someone came up with the 'brilliant idea' to do away with the Svc Bn and create the GS Bn and CS Bn; one a Base Lodger Unit and the other a disfunctional orphan.

Neither were really Field Units.

Has the "Wheel" come full circle yet?

 

[armyvern]

That was before someone came up with the 'brilliant idea' to do away with the Svc Bn and create the GS Bn and CS Bn; one a Base Lodger Unit and the other a disfunctional orphan.

Neither were really Field Units.

Has the "Wheel" come full circle yet?

No, it was the same way back then.

There was 2 Svc Bn Base Supply, and 2 Svc Bn Field Supply. Two different UICs. Two different postings. Lovely re-org and new name (and apparently the re-org sucks, but I do hear it's going back to the "old" way - it worked).

One is field -- one is not; neither were "Combat Arms".

2 Fd Amb is certainly a field Unit, 2 Cdn Fd Hosp etc --- (that's what the "Fd" in their name stands for) ... and they certainly are not "Combat Arms".

First Line Units do not equal "Combat Arms" Units only.

 

[George Wallace]

Wouldn't it just be easier if everyone just referred to their ORBATs.  Bde Units, including the Svc Bn, are Field.  Base Units are not.  TAC HEL Units, who don't belong to a Bde, but to the Air Force are in a gray area, but they like the Navy, are already collecting various allowances.

One who doesn't belong to a "Field" Unit, is still going to get Field Pay if deployed into the Field. If not they would get TD.  Sometimes TD greatly outweights Field Pay.  Getting more than one allowance for the same tasking/deployment/exercise is rather rare, is it not?

 

[1feral1]

Semi hijack:

Our Fd pay is two tiered, one at about 25 bucks a day, the other at about 46 bucks a day. Depends on how one is living and what rats he is on. Either way, it adds up real fast.

With field time in May and June at Shoalwater Bay, it will be nice for the bonus. TD for the trip up and down. SWB is a shytehole, max isolation, beasts great (crocs)and small (poisonus ticks etc), oh joy!

 

[armyvern]

Wouldn't it just be easier if everyone just referred to their ORBATs.  Bde Units, including the Svc Bn, are Field.  Base Units are not.  TAC HEL Units, who don't belong to a Bde, but to the Air Force are in a gray area, but they like the Navy, are already collecting various allowances.

One who doesn't belong to a "Field" Unit, is still going to get Field Pay if deployed into the Field. If not they would get TD.  Sometimes TD greatly outweights Field Pay.  Getting more than one allowance for the same tasking/deployment/exercise is rather rare, is it not?

I'm sure the second paragraphers will fall into the TD or Casual Field pay area.

As for your first --- uggghhh --- going through the ORBAT just happens to be this weeks big task. Thank's for reminding me, and it's not even Monday morning dammit. 

 

[NCRCrow]

So you saying that it might be broken down to Billet/Position Number within a Unit/ Bde to receive Field Pay Allowance.

 

[dapaterson]

No, it will be units designated to receive it, and every position within the unit.  Any other method would be like reviewing every berth on one of HMC Ships, and assessing it individually for Sea Duty Allowance.

I'm not certain what will happen to the schools.

Big hand, small map: Arty, Armd, Engr and Inf units should receive it, along with the Svc Bns, HQ & Sigs Sqn for the CMBGs, and probably the non-Air Crew positions within the Tac Hel Sqns - there may be "double jeopardy" rules to keep aircrew from getting both Air Crew allowance and Land Duty Allowance (the latest name I've heard whispered in the hallowed halls of Ottawa).

 

[aesop081]

there may be "double jeopardy" rules to keep aircrew from getting both Air Crew allowance and Land Duty Allowance (the latest name I've heard whispered in the hallowed halls of Ottawa).

Why would there be ? CH-124 crews already draw both aircrew allowance and sea duty allowance so why would Tac Hel aircrews not be allowed to draw both aircrew allowance and field ops allowance ? Sounds like a redress served on a silver platter to me.

 

[dapaterson]

I stand corrected - my time in CF aircraft is somewhat limited (a trip from St-Hubert to Valcartier in a Chinook, the return trip that was aborted halfway along, and a ride from the airfield across the road in Valcartier).  I know that some allowances preclude each other; I didn't know that aircrew allowances have no such restrictions.

 

[NCRCrow]

Sea King Crews get both!

So you are saying that 427 TAC HEL is (will be) a designated "Field Unit"

If you are hurt for more than 6 months does your Field pay cease?

 

[PO2FinClk]

As alluded by Vern and emphasized by dapaterson, this allowance will be administered in line as other enviromental allowances, which has also been explained in other threads.

The key phrasing at this point is that a unit must expect "to be in the field for at least 60 days in a year to receive" this allowance. The quoted portion is from a DPPD email on the subject and those posted to such units would be in receipt of this allowance (FEA, FDA or LDA). Also, as is the case where "units" are not expected to meet this criteria but individuals within the units are, then these positions would be desiganted as such and be in receipt of the allowance. The same methodology is applied to both AIRCRA & SDA (amongst others) where messages are released denoting these positions.

Anybody else not meeting either criteria above would then be subject to Casual Allowances, or FOA, as is the case for any other allowance. If pers posted to schools are expected to be in the field for more then 60 days in the year, then they will get it full time (provided the position was properly staffed and captured by the COC). If not they get the Casual Allowance. If you are incremental at a school, you again get Casual Allowance. As is the case for AIRCRA or SDA, you must be Posted or Att-Posted to the position or unit itself.

Folks, the wheel is not being re-invented here, the same caveats which are currently in place for a myriad of other allowances will also be applied to this one. The only difference here is the environement itself, not how it shall be applied. In order to get the full time allowance, you will have to be "posted into a desginated position".

The culture of entitlement contest as seen in here serves absolutely no purpose when there is ample direction available which clearly denote this type of administration. These issues are no different then doing a search in these forums, search the pubs. Those who are bent on pursuing the "he gets she gets" issue are invited to familiarize themselves with the following refs:
CBI Chap 205 Section 2 Para's 205.30 to 205.395
DPPD Allowance Policy Messages (Designated Positions): http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/allowance/engraph/allow_pol_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=30

 

[vonGarvin]

For those of you on the DIN:
http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2008/096-08_e.asp

Enjoy the oncoming rumour mill!  Especially since the facts are right there for all to see!