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Canadians taking flak over Afghan gun battle

tomahawk6

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060428.wxafghan28/BNStory/International/home

Issue would be addressed in the investigation of friendly fire I would think. As I have stated previously closer coordination between Afghan security forces and the coalition might avoid a problem's in the future.
 
Afghan police say nine of their colleagues were killed in the fight
"We've been fighting 25 years, and we never lost so many men in one battle," Mr. Safullah said. "This is because of bad co-ordination with the Canadians and Americans."

::)
 
The Americans upon their handover to the Canadians told them that the ANA will take a bullet for them as long as they trust us.

It seems the Canadians would drag their heels when the ANA asked for help because we needed 48 hours prior while we could go to their camp and try to snatch up personal for what we had going on.  This has pissed off some ANA highers and they are losing their patience with us and the troops on the ground are seeing this and getting a little annoyed about the whole situation.
 
I can't believe I'm saying this but Maj Grimshaw is a fine officer and I'm sure he takes this VERY seriously.
 
I love stories like this - taken at face value, no context, no real background.

To the media:  Afghanistan is a complex country and people in authority there will often state things as "fact" in order to support their own positions and their own agenda.  There is rampant dishonesty and corruption, even within the Afghan National Police (and despite the best efforts to stamp it out) and there's nothing preventing them from embellishing events to suit their own purposes.  The fact that the story quotes "intercepted" Taliban traffic conveniently provided by the ANP and conveniently supporting their version of events makes me even more suspicious.

The fact of the matter is that accusing a Canadian unit of cowardice without substantiating facts is disingenious at best and, at worst, serves to assist the Taliban's propaganda machine.
 
I think that if the Taliban/Al Queda (SP) want to believe we are cowards then that's great.  Nothing like underestimating your enemy.
 
I will concure with Quagmire %110, Major Grimshaw is one of the best officers that I have served under in my seventeen years in the military, but...
to an Afghnai that has no real contact with Coalition forces on the ground (more so Canadaian Forces), this sort of "misinformation", taken at face value can have a detrimental affect on the "hearts and minds".
The fact of the matter is that accusing a Canadian unit of cowardice without substantiating facts is disingenious at best and, at worst, serves to assist the Taliban's propaganda machine.
So then, if all of this is misinformation, they must assume that those specific individuals are in fact--at least AQ/TB supporters, no?. If not, do you just chalk this up as legitimate ANP/ANA frustrations at the lack of coordination between the different friendly forces on the ground?

In any case, all of the comments made will undoughtibly have some affect on the local populace good or bad, only time will tell I guess...




 
The coward quote
"The U.S. troops are fleeing Afghanistan; it's great," one insurgent fighter said to another in a radio transmission intercepted by Afghan police during the April 14 battle. "Now we have Canadians, and they are cowards."

is from an insurgent.
 
I second Teddy Ruxpin on this one.
Exaggeration is an Afghan national sport, as one Officer I met in Qalat put it... Without knowing what exactly went on, and the media now throwing this in the air, I have a feeling a lot of people will take it as gospel, especially within Afghanistan.
 
So then, if all of this is misinformation, they must assume that those specific individuals are in fact--at least AQ/TB supporters, no?. If not, do you just chalk this up as legitimate ANP/ANA frustrations at the lack of coordination between the different friendly forces on the ground?

That's the crux of the problem.  The situation on the ground WRT Afghans is typically so complex that knowing real, underlying motives is extremely difficult.  Are the ANP correct?  Is the chief a TB sympathizer?  Is this a ploy to gain more equipment/funding from the international community/central government?  Does it reflect NDS/ANA/ANP internal tension and politics we're not aware of?  On and on...

The coward quote
"The U.S. troops are fleeing Afghanistan; it's great," one insurgent fighter said to another in a radio transmission intercepted by Afghan police during the April 14 battle. "Now we have Canadians, and they are cowards."

is from an insurgent.

It could well be...none of us know and the reporter could well be correct.  However, from the same story...

Mr. Safullah's men didn't have any radios either, and only three had mobile phones. The Roshan mobile network is weak in this part of the country, the commander said, and the signal died when his officers took cover in the fields.

Just sayin'  ;)
 
Good eye Teddy!
The criticism about the Canadians' lack of boldness echoed the triumphant assessment made by the Taliban during the heat of battle that day.
I misread that part, I thought the intercept came after the drama, not while it was going on,hmmm...
 
Canadians taking flak over Afghan gun battle
GRAEME SMITH

From Friday's Globe and Mail

SANGISAR, AFGHANISTAN — Canadian soldiers are struggling to persuade their Afghan allies that they behaved properly during a pitched battle April 14 that ripped through this district about 25 kilometres southwest of Kandahar city.

Afghan police say nine of their colleagues were killed in the fight, and they criticize the Canadians for staying on the fringes while the poorly equipped Afghans endured several hours of running battle among the grapevines, wheat fields and mud compounds of Sangisar.

It's difficult for the Canadian military to answer those accusations directly, because a continuing friendly-fire investigation prevents soldiers from discussing details of April 14. Troops say they weren't afraid of the Good Friday battle, and they won praise for the discipline they showed as they held back from a muddled fight on unfamiliar turf in which they risked shooting their allies.

But the military is having to work hard to address the Afghan complaints. In a land where trust is more powerful than guns, Canadian military officials say, it's crucial for Canadians to repair their damaged relationship with the local Afghan police.

Last week, that task fell to Major Nick Grimshaw, commander of Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

He travelled for three days through the districts southwest of Kandahar city and met with the local leaders whose men fought and died on Good Friday.

"Hopefully we can co-ordinate much better, next time we show up," Major Grimshaw said, standing in the courtyard of the Maywand district headquarters and facing a crowd of disgruntled Afghans.

The district leader, Haji Safullah, refused to be placated.

"We've been fighting 25 years, and we never lost so many men in one battle," Mr. Safullah said. "This is because of bad co-ordination with the Canadians and Americans." Major Grimshaw nodded gravely.

"There was bad co-ordination," he said.

"My subcommanders were brave," Mr. Safullah said.

"Yes, I'm sorry we lost them," Major Grimshaw said.

Dusk was falling as they spoke, and Bravo Company decided to spend the night camping inside Mr. Safullah's compound. As soldiers pitched their cots under the cedars and pines, a warning circulated quietly among the soldiers: The Afghan police are angry; don't take off your body armour.

The district headquarters has high walls topped with barbed wire, but the Canadians took more precautions than they did the night before, when they slept in the open desert overlooking a suspected Taliban smuggling route. Extra patrols crunched along Mr. Safullah's gravel driveway, while sentries manned the gun turrets of the armoured vehicles.

After saying goodnight to Major Grimshaw, the Afghan commander expressed more anger and confusion. The military shouldn't bother investigating the accusations of friendly fire that emerged from the Good Friday battle, he said, because such accidents are normal in war.

But he was less forgiving about what he described as a lack of boldness by the Canadian troops.

"We thought the Canadians were behind us," Mr. Safullah said. "But they weren't, and some of my men got shot."

The criticism about the Canadians' lack of boldness echoed the triumphant assessment made by the Taliban during the heat of battle that day.

"The U.S. troops are fleeing Afghanistan; it's great," one insurgent fighter said to another in a radio transmission intercepted by Afghan police during the April 14 battle. "Now we have Canadians, and they are cowards."

The chronology of the battle offered by the Afghan police can't be confirmed, but witnesses gave similar accounts in three separate interviews. Early in the morning, Taliban ambushed the Afghan police on Highway 1, the paved road leading from the city of Kandahar to Helmand province. Afghan authorities had known about groups of Taliban gathering in the area for days, so dozens of Afghan soldiers and police were nearby and rushed into battle.

Maywand police estimate there were roughly 170 Taliban fighters.

Others describe a smaller number of insurgents, but heavily armed. From his headquarters, Mr. Safullah worried about his own officers' equipment: The government hadn't given them any ammunition for their Kalashnikov rifles, so he spent his own money on bullets, giving each officer a couple of magazines.

Mr. Safullah's men didn't have any radios either, and only three had mobile phones. The Roshan mobile network is weak in this part of the country, the commander said, and the signal died when his officers took cover in the fields.

The Canadian convoy rolled up Highway 1 several hours after the shooting started, and largely stayed back from the daylong fight. The Canadians fired only twice.

The first time was when they arrived, shooting 1,200 metres across an open field in the direction of thick foliage alongside a canal, where they saw incoming fire. By one account, a soldier from the Afghan National Army ran out and waved his arms, trying to stop the Canadians from firing because they were hitting friendly positions -- although nobody was hurt -- and the ANA soldier was hit from behind by a Taliban sniper who saw him wave.

The second burst of Canadian fire happened after part of the convoy drove up a side road and got hit with a volley of rocket-propelled grenades. The grenades came from behind a mud wall about 500 metres away, and the Canadians crumbled the wall with blasts from the turret gun of a light-armoured vehicle.

The Canadians couldn't go farther into the battle, Major Grimshaw said, because they didn't know what was happening.

"We showed up ready to fight, and we did," Major Grimshaw said. "But we exercised restraint because it was unclear where the enemy was, due to a lack of co-ordination. We could have done something more severe, but my soldiers are well trained and they exercised restraint."

Bravo company had another reason for not plunging into the warren of mud compounds in Sangisar. If they had pushed south and chased the Taliban, they would have been channelled into narrow roads bordered by mud walls and fragile wooden bridges.

Two days later, an LAV on patrol would get stuck for hours in the soft-shouldered ditch in exactly the same spot. Showing restraint didn't make the Canadians popular with the local police, Major Grimshaw said, but it was a wise decision.

"I'm very proud of what my soldiers did," he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060428.wxafghan28/BNStory/International/home
 
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