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i understood it. i guess some people just take it the wrong way.
Canadians serving with the USMC
- Thread starter Ex-Dragoon
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I just think that y'all oughtta know that large numbers of Canadians have already served honorably in the U.S. Armed Services,especially during the Vietnam years.In fact ,3244 became naturalized citizens during that time.My source is " Unknown Warriors" byFred Gaffen. The book was published by Dundurn Press in1990.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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While at a book store I picked up a book that had letters sent to Michael Moore from soldiers and families of soldiers. (I'm sure some of you will suggest Michael more made up every single letter, i don't care thats not my point 
)
One mother of a soldier wrote him thanking him for whatever it was, she went on to say that the US military would not pay for her to fly her to her sons funeral. She however got a letter from the government a few months later offering her a free plane ticket to go and see president bush when he was doing some kind of campaign thing. Pretty sad.
Reading further there seemed to be a lot of letters from soldiers currently serving in Iraq and soldiers who just got home from Iraq. They commented a lot saying the minute they started questioning why they were in Iraq or basically said "we shouldn't be here" all their "brothers" started turning against them and ostracizing them. Just reading message forums, stories on line and the odd clip in the news I see the same thing. These soldiers quickly go from brave heroic soldier defending democracy, honour and freedom to coward, traitor and selfish bastard who turns their back on their squad. These aren't reserves called up for active duty and running away college money stuffed into a back pack but guys who have been over there and did their time. I think it's sad how quickly these guys are given cold shoulders when they hop off the wagon.
My question is, do you think that the attitude these soldiers face from their peers and other pro war supports could be one of the leading factors as to why they think it's better to desert the army or go AWOL? I've seen guys get the cold shoulder and you can tell they are the 'out' guy just by looking at them. How they walk, carry themselves, talk. It just kills their spirit. And thats in peace time on a dinky little tasking, not a war.
I'm not trying to justify deserting or AWOL in the least but maybe the whole 'Your with us or against us, it's anti-American not to support the war' attitude is actually causing some of these guys to head up to Canada because they feel they don't have a choice.
I think opening up the US Marines to Canadian soldiers is a horrible idea.
Why?
I'd head south and sign up in a heartbeat. I've many friends in the reserves who i think would. I'd imagine members of the regular force would. Lots of young Canadians would join the marines instead of the Canadian forces. Think we have a small army now? It would get a lot smaller.
)One mother of a soldier wrote him thanking him for whatever it was, she went on to say that the US military would not pay for her to fly her to her sons funeral. She however got a letter from the government a few months later offering her a free plane ticket to go and see president bush when he was doing some kind of campaign thing. Pretty sad.
Reading further there seemed to be a lot of letters from soldiers currently serving in Iraq and soldiers who just got home from Iraq. They commented a lot saying the minute they started questioning why they were in Iraq or basically said "we shouldn't be here" all their "brothers" started turning against them and ostracizing them. Just reading message forums, stories on line and the odd clip in the news I see the same thing. These soldiers quickly go from brave heroic soldier defending democracy, honour and freedom to coward, traitor and selfish bastard who turns their back on their squad. These aren't reserves called up for active duty and running away college money stuffed into a back pack but guys who have been over there and did their time. I think it's sad how quickly these guys are given cold shoulders when they hop off the wagon.
My question is, do you think that the attitude these soldiers face from their peers and other pro war supports could be one of the leading factors as to why they think it's better to desert the army or go AWOL? I've seen guys get the cold shoulder and you can tell they are the 'out' guy just by looking at them. How they walk, carry themselves, talk. It just kills their spirit. And thats in peace time on a dinky little tasking, not a war.
I'm not trying to justify deserting or AWOL in the least but maybe the whole 'Your with us or against us, it's anti-American not to support the war' attitude is actually causing some of these guys to head up to Canada because they feel they don't have a choice.
I think opening up the US Marines to Canadian soldiers is a horrible idea.
Why?
I'd head south and sign up in a heartbeat. I've many friends in the reserves who i think would. I'd imagine members of the regular force would. Lots of young Canadians would join the marines instead of the Canadian forces. Think we have a small army now? It would get a lot smaller.
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Well, first off, soldiers really have no business questioning government policy. Debating it is ok, I'm sure that someone wouldn't "get the cold shoulder" for wanting to discuss how much merit there is in what they're doing. I couldn't see anyone being ostricized like that though, unless he walked around muttering "this is wrong, we shouldn't be here" on a regular basis. If he's allowing those thoughts to affect his morale and performance, it's going to affect the morale of everyone around him. I certainly wouldn't want to be around someone like that. The soldiers over there now have a tough enough job as it is...the last thing they need is one of their own falling apart at the seams and telling them that what they're doing is useless or wrong.
.....the US military did not have to lease a Russian built aircraft to get to south east Asia..
Now that is a pretty asinine comment to make. Would it have made your happier it we took 24 trips with a freaking Herc? I thought the object of the game was to get there ASAP.
Now that is a pretty asinine comment to make. Would it have made your happier it we took 24 trips with a freaking Herc? I thought the object of the game was to get there ASAP.
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I guess places like Korea, the Medak pocket and Afghanistan don't count then. :
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Thank you for the clarification.
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
I think opening up the US Marines to Canadian soldiers is a horrible idea.
Why?
I'd head south and sign up in a heartbeat. I've many friends in the reserves who i think would. I'd imagine members of the regular force would. Lots of young Canadians would join the marines instead of the Canadian forces. Think we have a small army now? It would get a lot smaller.
You arent alone when you say that ghost, I know for sure there would be a few troops from my unit that would go south for it... all of the good ones too.I'll admit it, i'd be tempted to do it too.When you work in the military, and then being offerred a job in the marines..... its almost like a job promotion really.. sorry to say =/.As proud as I am, and everyone else likely is, of the CF and Canada, no one can deny that the United States military is the best war machine in the world, period.Like going from junior league hockey to the NHL =/
I guess im just jealous, I wish our military was as established and powerful as theirs
Ahhh the lure of power
Why?
I'd head south and sign up in a heartbeat. I've many friends in the reserves who i think would. I'd imagine members of the regular force would. Lots of young Canadians would join the marines instead of the Canadian forces. Think we have a small army now? It would get a lot smaller.
You arent alone when you say that ghost, I know for sure there would be a few troops from my unit that would go south for it... all of the good ones too.I'll admit it, i'd be tempted to do it too.When you work in the military, and then being offerred a job in the marines..... its almost like a job promotion really.. sorry to say =/.As proud as I am, and everyone else likely is, of the CF and Canada, no one can deny that the United States military is the best war machine in the world, period.Like going from junior league hockey to the NHL =/
I guess im just jealous, I wish our military was as established and powerful as theirs
Ahhh the lure of power
There was no political statement meant at all. It was strictly a downrange shot at yourself for making that comment. Funding for equipment and manpower has always been an issue up here but at least someone took some initiative and got the job done for a change. If you notice I made no mention of MM or his drivel
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gunner56 said:
Don't you mean Unknown Valour? I had that book. Green and yellow cover, til about 6 yrs ago, I lent it to the CO of my unit. He was Viet Nam Vet (RAA 70-71). Poof, he got posted and took that book. That was a good book, and he was a good CO too, allthough he used to 'weird out' on occasion, especially when we were 'full tac' in the 'light green'.
Cheers,
Wes
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
I dunno... Im tempted to agree with you Baker, and the idea of the US deciding to open its ranks to Canucks isnt exactly very far fetched either.Its a little bit of a boost before they would need to go conscripting youngsters.I'd bet if someone brought the idea up to the president and his staff (theyve likely considered it already, but who knows) theyd probobly look into it quite a bit... although, like someone else said, the politicians over here would go nuts... and im not sure how well received our troops would be by our own citizens if they were to leave canada and fight for the yankees..
But if they were allowed to wear a small non obstrusive flag or insignia somewhere on the uniform, that would be great... any kind of recognition would be great really.
I dunno quite what to think of the whole thing yet.
But if they were allowed to wear a small non obstrusive flag or insignia somewhere on the uniform, that would be great... any kind of recognition would be great really.
I dunno quite what to think of the whole thing yet.
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jmackenzie_15 said:
I actually spoke to a US army recruiter about it before. A while ago I was looking into transfering to the US forces, and the recruiters apologized profusely but said there was nothing they could do to help me get a green card. When I started talking about how the US government should look into opening up the military to Canadian citizens, the recruiter went and got me the e-mail addresses for several US senators. He seemed to think it was a good idea and that if the right senator got wind of it, they'd be interested in pursuing it.
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
With the talk of conscription in the US, you would think the president would opt to get a few thousand more guys out of canada before resorting to conscripting kids off the street wouldnt you think?
I can't really see any detrimental effects on the AMERICAN SIDE of allowing canucks to join up, so I don't see why they wouldnt really.Anyone have any input?
I can't really see any detrimental effects on the AMERICAN SIDE of allowing canucks to join up, so I don't see why they wouldnt really.Anyone have any input?
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
Another thing id like to point out is, for everybody thinking 'what would it be like in the marines ???' you should check into how much they get paid.
It isnt much.
http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2003paytable.pdf
It isnt much.
http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2003paytable.pdf
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jmackenzie_15 said:
A) My buddy in the US Army says that despite the lower pay at junior levels, there is more service and perks (like a 30,000 signing bonus for an 11x slot). Canada pays well, put then leaves everything to the soldier to supply his own way.
B) If your primary motive is pay, you're in the wrong job sector.
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
I was just bringing up the pay thing as an additional factor,(Im not expecting 70,000 dollars, come on) I didnt realize how little they got paid untill today.But yeah, they do have housing and medical bills for free too, so i dunno...
do the marines get taxed while over seas?
do the marines get taxed while over seas?
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Not to harp on about pay and incentives, but wouldn't a Canadian serving in the US still be entitled to benefits under the GI Bill? That would be great incentive.
I am glad this thread got started, I have often wondered why the US was so reluctant to allow us to come down and serve (I too looked into it while in the Mo)
Maybe one thing they are considering is how many soldiers from Canada would release and then be able to compete for jobs with other American born citizens. Could there possibly be a way around that by not requiring green cards for Military Service?
Good one you Baker, I am glad to see someone in the US Military wants to take action on this, please keep us updated.
I am glad this thread got started, I have often wondered why the US was so reluctant to allow us to come down and serve (I too looked into it while in the Mo)
Maybe one thing they are considering is how many soldiers from Canada would release and then be able to compete for jobs with other American born citizens. Could there possibly be a way around that by not requiring green cards for Military Service?
Good one you Baker, I am glad to see someone in the US Military wants to take action on this, please keep us updated.
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