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Canadians deploying to AFG (early days, merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Spr Earl
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Chartering of aircraft has become a necessity due to our lack of transport aircraft larger than the CC-130 Hercs. Canada has chartered planes for a DART mission to Turkey and to move troops from Bosnia to Macedonia in Aug 2001. I‘m not sure how they got the troops to Afganistan last yr. But the CF did charter planes from civil airlines (Air Transit for one...) to help move tps to Wainwright for Ex Resolute Warrior this spring...
 
Armymedic, I had a feeling it was due to an absence of appropriate heavy-lift aircraft (i.e. >C130). Apart from troop transport, would the CF be chartering aircraft as large as the C5 Galaxy, or the AN124 Condor for heavy equipment transport? Something tells me, "not so much." Deployment would have to be severely hindered for me to have a problem with chartering. ATBE, our troops and our stuff will get there one way or another, and we know what the real priorities are, anyhow.

My father also advocates that riding in a taxi is more economical in the long run than owning a vehicle... but even I know that he privately values his car like a cowboy does his horse. ;)
 
Armymedic, I had a feeling it was due to an absence of appropriate heavy-lift aircraft (i.e. >C130). Apart from troop transport, would the CF be chartering aircraft as large as the C5 Galaxy, or the AN124 Condor for heavy equipment transport? Something tells me, "not so much." Deployment would have to be severely hindered for me to have a problem with chartering. ATBE, our troops and our stuff will get there one way or another, and we know what the real priorities are, anyhow.

My father also advocates that riding in a taxi is more economical in the long run than owning a vehicle... but even I know that he privately values his car like a cowboy does his horse. ;)
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2971004.stm

Peacekeepers killed in Kabul blast


A helicopter landed to provide medical assistance
A car bomb has killed four international peacekeepers and injured dozens of other people in an apparent suicide attack on a bus in the Afghan capital, Kabul.
The force of the explosion threw the vehicle off the road, a few kilometres east of the city centre, near a base used by German and Dutch troops of the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf).

The attack is the deadliest assault on the Isaf force since it arrived in Afghanistan to support the government of Hamid Karzai after the removal of the Taleban.

President Karzai offered his condolences and said the peacekeepers had given their lives for the Afghan people.

Isaf had confirmed that three German soldiers had been killed before the German authorities said a fourth was also dead.

The other 29 peacekeepers on board the bus were injured, at least seven seriously, as were several Afghan civilians who were near the scene of the blast.

US military sources said the attack was carried out by a suicide bomber, who drove a taxi filled with explosives towards the bus, then blew it up.

Peacekeeping force
Isaf has UN mandate to help Afghan Transitional Authority maintain security
Aims to develop reliable security structures, identify reconstruction needs and train Afghan security forces
Comprises 4,600 troops from 29 nations, currently led by Germany and the Netherlands
Area of responsibility limited to Kabul and vicinity
Commander is Lt General Norbert van Heyst of the German Army

The 33 peacekeepers were being driven to the airport to fly home to Germany after a six-month tour of duty in Afghanistan.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder condemned the attack as the "cowardly and devious" work of terrorists.

An Isaf spokesman said an investigation had been launched into the cause of the blast in close co-operation with the Afghan authorities.

The BBC‘s Kylie Morris in Kabul says the road where the explosion occurred is busy and lined with stalls. Some of the casualties are thought to have been seriously wounded.

The area was quickly blocked off and a German military helicopter landed on the road to give medical assistance.

The injured were then taken to military hospitals.

More attacks

About 5,000 international peacekeepers have been deployed to patrol the streets of Kabul and to provide security for the capital.

Our correspondent says it is too early to say who was responsible for the blast, but local Afghan officials have blamed the attack on remnants of al-Qaeda or Taleban.


German soldiers are part of the Kabul peacekeeping force

Anti-government forces have been issuing pamphlets calling on Afghans to rid their country of the peacekeeping forces, our correspondent adds.

Suspected Taleban fighters have been stepping up attacks in recent weeks, particularly in the south and east of Afghanistan.

About 40 Taleban fighters were killed recently in the south of the country in a battle with Afghan government forces.

Saturday‘s explosion was the second violent incident involving German peacekeepers in Kabul in recent weeks.

On 29 May, a German soldier was killed and another wounded when their vehicle hit a landmine near Kabul.

And last month more than 60 Spanish peacekeepers were killed when a plane that was flying them home from their mission in Afghanistan crashed.

***
Things are getting real hot over there...
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2968138.stm

High alert after Afghan battle


Afghan officials said they dumped the bodies to warn the Taleban
Afghan soldiers remain on high alert in the south of the country following Wednesday‘s clash with Taleban fighters that left 49 people dead.
The battle in Kandahar province near the Pakistan border was one of the deadliest since the fall of the Taleban regime in 2001.

"We are still on high alert mode and ready for any further Taleban attacks," Kandahar military commander General Khan Mohammad told the AFP news agency.

After the clash, the pro-government Afghan militiamen dumped around 22 Taleban bodies over the border in Pakistan but later retrieved some of them following Pakistani protests.

We have lodged a written protest with Afghan officials and told them that it was an attempt to malign Pakistan

Saqib Aziz, Pakistan district administrator

The fighting broke out when around 100 suspected Taleban fighters armed with rifles, machine guns and rocket launchers attacked the pro-government troops.

Forty Taleban fighters and nine Afghan militiamen were killed.

Bodies retrieved

A row quickly erupted between Afghan and Pakistani officials about the origin of the Taleban fighters.

Afghan officials claimed the Taleban fighters had crossed from Pakistan.

The officials ordered 22 bodies to be dumped at the Killi Faizu refugee camp just inside Pakistani territory


Reports varied about the fate of the bodies although Afghan officials accept that they retrieved some.



Saqib Aziz, administrator of Pakistan‘s Qila Abdullah district, said the Afghan authorities had retrieved the bodies.

He added: "We have officially lodged a written protest with Afghan officials and told them that it was an attempt to malign Pakistan.

"If [the dead] were Pakistanis then why did the Afghan authorities accept their bodies?"

Authorities in the Afghan town of Spin Boldak said they had taken back only 14 of the bodies.

Deputy district governor of Spin Boldak Sayd Jan told Afghan Islamic Press (AIP): "The bodies of some of the Taleban had been taken by their relatives [in Pakistan]."

He said the bodies were dumped in Pakistan "to show the fate of those who confront our government will be like these [dead Taleban fighters]. Even if a thousand people come from Pakistan, we will confront them".

Mr Sayd Jan said there were no further problems in the area.

Residents of Spin Boldak told AIP the Taleban fighters were encircled and killed after running out of ammunition.

The battle was the culmination of about a week of sporadic clashes around Spin Boldak, with suspected Taleban fighters staging hit-and-run attacks on local forces.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3014363.stm

Afghan war ‘far from over‘

Stephen Cviic
BBC News



The US envoy met leaders in Kabul
US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage has been having talks in Afghanistan with President Hamid Karzai. One-and-a-half years after the US and its allies took control, peacekeepers are on the ground but the war is far from over.

Afghanistan today is a patchwork of local fiefdoms, mostly run by former militia leaders or warlords.

These local rulers owe nominal allegiance to the central government in Kabul, but despite this they often behave independently.

Kabul itself is a special case because it is home to President Karzai and to an international peace-keeping force of 5,000 men.

There are real doubts that the Taleban can be fully defeated and local warlords‘ power broken

In addition to the international peace-keepers, there are a total of 8,000 US troops on the ground in Afghanistan, involved mainly in military operations.

The war in Afghanistan is far from over.

The Taleban have regrouped in rural areas of the south, and there has recently been an upsurge in violence around the city of Kandahar.

Many Western aid workers have left the area in fear for their lives.

National army

The United Nations will shortly begin efforts to demobilise militia men all over the country, in preparation for national elections in June next year.

By that time, security is supposed to have passed partly into the hands of the new national army, which is currently being trained by the Americans.

Around 4,000 men have already been through the process; the army is eventually meant to number 70,000.


Afghan army due to take over security before elections next year
Although the US has always said it does not want to be involved in nation-building, it is helping to fund both infrastructure projects - such as the rebuilding of the main highway from Kabul to Kandahar - and the training of new tax and customs collectors.

Millions of Afghan refugees have returned to the country since the end of the war, and the Americans have recently set up local reconstruction teams to be deployed around the country.

But there is little sense of economic progress, and there are real doubts about whether the Taleban can be fully defeated and the power of local warlords broken.
 
http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id=7CB8CC37-4358-49A9-B741-ADD05CFDAD87

Kabul heats up as Canada to deploy
Bomb kills four Germans

Michael Friscolanti
National Post, with files from news services


Monday, June 09, 2003
ADVERTISEMENT


A weekend suicide bombing that killed four German peacekeepers in Afghanistan is a chilling sign of things to come for Canadian soldiers deploying to the region this summer, according to military experts who fear Canadian casualties are all but inevitable.

Defence analysts believe the upcoming deployment, like many peacekeeping missions, will be hampered by strict rules of engagement that essentially force soldiers to sit back and wait to be attacked.

"The only way you can stop this sort of thing is if you go out there and get the bad guys," said David Bercuson, the director of the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

"But if you don‘t have the rules of engagement to be able to do it, then you cannot stop them from coming. I hope people are prepared for, unfortunately, what is going to happen."

What is likely to happen, he said, is a scenario similar to what happened on Saturday, when a suicide bomber in Kabul drove a taxi laden with explosives into the side of a bus carrying German soldiers. The troops, who had spent months patrolling the capital, were en route to the airport for a flight home.

"You‘re a sitting duck," Dr. Bercuson said.

The attack, quickly blamed on Osama bin Laden‘s al-Qaeda network, killed four soldiers, one Afghan civilian and the taxi driver.

"We found several pieces of a body and one hand still attached to the steering wheel," said General Abdul Raouf Taj, a district police commander.

Lieutenant-Colonel Thomas Lobbering, a spokesman for the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), said the unit received daily threats that a suicide bomber may strike, but preventing such attacks is almost impossible.

"Although we have warnings, and in this particular case we had that beforehand, that something might happen at a certain time, at a certain place, it is always impossible to predict," he said.

ISAF, an international effort to bring peace and security to the Afghan capital, boosted security measures following the bombing, including halting all transport buses, but Lt.-Col. Lobbering said more attacks were expected.

"The type of terrorist attacks and the amount of terrorist attacks is in line with what we have been expecting, and what we still expect, I am sorry to say, for the upcoming future," he said.

Yesterday, military experts accused the federal government of grossly underestimating the looming danger facing the 1,800 Canadian soldiers scheduled to join ISAF this summer as part of Operation Athena.

Major-General Lewis MacKenzie, who commanded peacekeeping missions in Bosnia, said he is well aware that risk is an inherent part of military operations. However, he fears the government is not giving the troops enough leeway to protect themselves in an environment that many people misinterpret as being safe.

"This magic term ‘peacekeeping‘ is interpreted by the vast majority of the Canadian population as helping little old ladies across the street," he said. "That‘s wrong."

Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said he hopes Canadian commanders in Kabul give their troops the freedom to sway from the rules if it means protecting themselves and their fellow soldiers.

"You don‘t put your soldiers at risk without giving them the option to use their initiative," he said.

"We‘ll sort out the court martials and all that later."

Saturday‘s suicide bombing added yet another level of complexity to an upcoming mission already plagued by equipment shortages and bureaucratic red tape.

The Canadian Forces is scrambling to acquire equipment for its mission in Afghanistan, including badly needed night-vision goggles, laser rifle sights and unmanned aerial vehicles. Last week, the government acknowledged the cost of the mission would exceed the $200-million set aside for the deployment.

On a political level, critics have charged that the Liberal government only agreed to join the mission so it could avoid having to send troops to the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

"It was a very political decision and it had not been properly considered before it was made," said Leon Benoit, the defence critic for the Canadian Alliance. "So I am concerned. We‘ve seen that before with especially UN missions, where the rules of engagement simply don‘t allow for proper protection."

Lieutenant Hollie Ryan, a spokeswoman for the Department of National Defence, would not comment specifically on Saturday‘s bombing, but she said Canadian troops are not going into Afghanistan "with their eyes closed."

"We recognize that we‘re going into an area [where] there are still threats to our security," she said.

"It‘s still a dangerous area. The Canadian Forces members are fully prepared for whatever scenarios they might face over there."

mfriscolanti@nationalpost.com

© Copyright 2003 National Post
 
I guess this qualifies as a 'substantiated' rumour ... does anyone know any more about this?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/09/21/pf-637957.html

Full text:

September 21, 2004
Canucks into danger zone
OUR SOLDIERS READY TO TAKE ON AFGHAN WARLORDS
By STEPHANIE RUBEC, OTTAWA BUREAU, SUN MEDIA

Prime Minister Paul Martin is expected to answer a call today to send Canadian troops into Afghanistan's badlands. Martin will meet privately today with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai in New York at the opening of the UN's General Assembly to discuss Canada's contribution to a provincial reconstruction team.

A senior federal official said Martin will discuss creating the team in an effort to boost security in the war-torn border regions of Afghanistan, where warlords and Taliban factions continue to fight for control.

"And I think that we will likely end up with a provincial reconstruction team sometime in the next several months," the senior official said.

That could see some of the 700 troops from CFB Petawawa, set to replace the existing Canadian contingent in Kabul this February, head into rural Afghanistan. In the past, Martin has adamantly rejected sending soldiers into the badlands until a plan was put in place for emergency evacuations.

RECONSTRUCTION TEAMS

Martin has kept Canadians in Kabul working as a part of the NATO-led force providing security in the capital.

So far only the United States and New Zealand have deployed reconstruction teams. They are made up of civilians tasked to rebuild rural Afghanistan's infrastructure, justice and education systems, and of soldiers who protect them and area residents.

Ashraf Hidari, spokesman for Afghanistan's embassy in Washington, D.C., said that a commitment from Canada is expected to cause European nations to follow suit.

Karzai sees the provincial teams as key to the ongoing campaign to win the hearts and minds of Afghanis.

Hidari said Karzai will also ask for more financial aid and would "appreciate further assistance from Canada."

The Canadian contingent in Kabul was cut from 2,000 to roughly 700 in August to give the army a break from deployments.

A defence department spokesman said the military is considering "all options" for the February deployment but no decision has yet been made.
 
If you read the article the USA and New Zealand sent civilians and if Canada was going to send anybody it should be civilians too, but it looks from reading the article some of the 700 troops going in the next rotation my be diverted for other operations.  Do we have the extra engineers too send.
 
The construction troops in the CERs (and 4 ESR) would each be capable of participating in such a task in place of some civilians. 
 
This is interesting, because one of my other jobs here in Afgh  is to assist in the planning of whatever Canada will committ to Afghanistan after this Roto. As of today (22 Sep) no decision has been announced, although  a Provincial Reconstruction Team is one of the options being briefed to the CDS. Unfortunately there are a number of mistakes/misconceptions in the article:

A senior federal official said Martin will discuss creating the team in an effort to boost security in the war-torn border regions of Afghanistan, where warlords and Taliban factions continue to fight for control.

Without getting too specific due to OPSEC, this approaches exaggeration. Only the southeast frontier facing Pakistan can really be considered "war torn", and we are not looking at going there. There is a widespread danger from IEDs/VBIEDs/suicide bombers, especially in Kabul, but that does not really equate to  "war torn". The North is pretty quiet,  Kabul is so-so (we'll see what happens in the next while...) and the West (around Herat) is quiet now after the US and the Afgh govt persuaded the two local warlords to accept other employment. Their heavy weapons are being cantoned as we read this. Herat is probably one of the more secure places just at the moment, although we are all waiting to see what the ACF will unleash in order to try to derail the Presidential elections on October 09. They have already ramped up offensive ops along the Pak frontier in the southeastern provinces.(Although they are getting caught between the OEF forces and the Pak Army, who deployed a Corps along their frontier.

"That could see some of the 700 troops from CFB Petawawa, set to replace the existing Canadian contingent in Kabul this February, head into rural Afghanistan. In the past, Martin has adamantly rejected sending soldiers into the badlands until a plan was put in place for emergency evacuations.

It might, but IMHO that would be pretty quick. A better guess would be in August. We really need to see how the Afgh Provincial Elections turn out in the spring, since the ACF will likely spend the winter reconstituting and planning. If the Provincial Elections go to sh*t, all bets might be off.

Martin has kept Canadians in Kabul working as a part of the NATO-led force providing security in the capital.

This statement is wrong, except that their operations outside the city contribute to its security.Canadians have been operating well beyond the city for months now, but still inside the ISAF AOO (which was just re-jigged) .

So far only the United States and New Zealand have deployed reconstruction teams.

This is completely wrong and has been wrong for months. While the US has 17 PRTs, the UK, Germans and  other nations are running several PRTs in the North. The Koreans also operate a PRT under the US, in Parwan province near where I am at Bagram.

They are made up of civilians tasked to rebuild rural Afghanistan's infrastructure, justice and education systems, and of soldiers who protect them and area residents.

No, they are primarily military organizations, which facilitate the actions of the Govt of Afghanistan agencies like Ministry of the Interior,  foreign Government Organizations (GOs)  like US Dept of State or USAID, and in a few cases NGOs. As a rule they do NOT do any humanitarian work, as the NGOs take care of this. They are commanded by a military officer, and the military is the backbone, although the civilian component is vital. The military presence is strong enough to provide for hte force protection of the PRT should things turn ugly(which can happen-PRTs have been attacked). They focus primarily on rebuilding the infrastructure that supports the Afghan Govt, so that it  can effectively run the country. They do NOT "protect area residents" unless the PRT forces are dealing with a threat that is also a threat to the PRT itself. They are not "the Cavalry" (and that includes US PRTs). Protection of local residents is very clearly the responsibility of the Afghan National Police (ANP) trained by the US and Germans, and the Afghan National Army trained by the US and Canada. The PRT forces may be involved in assisting with the training of the ANP/ANA.

The really important point is that there are several different options on the table, and PRT is just one. Cheers.


.

 
Thank you, for the correct info,"horses mouth" ;).  Doesn't this link up to the "civi's are in the dark" thread, when our own media doesn't care enough to get facts straight before "posting". 
Hmm, I think we have higher standards on this internet website about qualifying information than our press. :-[
 
Who's up next for rotation in Afghanistan? 
I missed my chance with the vandoos roto, so I don't want to miss the next one. 
Also, even if its the RCR or the PPCLI, is it possible for a guy form 34 brigade to go?
 
There are NO R031 Infantry positions in Afghan.

There are CIMIC and HUMINT positions.
Or D&S duties in the "secret" middle east airbase we like to call Mirage  ;D
 
And one has to assume that there will be NO R031 positions anytime soon either eh?  
Ah well sucks to be me.  

Yeah I have a few buddies that just came back from those "secret" bases there hehe.  I just want to get deployed on an interesting tour, I'll see what comes up.
 
I have no idea where 34 Bde is but I woudl suggest that in the next year you might (will) start seeing augmentation go up with the deployment of multiple battlegroups again....
 
34 brigade is in eastern Quebec.  Mostly Montreal regiments, reserves. 
And they are encouraging news!
 
if the order for the rotos is RCR(roto 0), Vandoo(roto 1), PPCLI(roto 2), then I assume the Patricias will be contributing to the BG in Feb 06? Or after our forces wide mini 'stand down' this year, is the order going to change?
 
The rumour around the left coast (from the CO and Bde Comd) is that there is going to be a CRIC company going in late 2005/early 2006. I plan on being there!
 
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