Canadian soldiers suffer frostbite during winter training

[medicineman]

It would be interesting to see the injury patterns .  Hands and fingers - likely not getting gloves/mitts back on quickly OR wearing gloves instead of mittens, since mittens keep your fingers warmer.  Some people think wearing mittens isn't very "cool"/hard - obviously also don't live or work in cold conditions usually.  Feet - likely not wearing mukluks, not wearing them properly or not changing socks and warming feet when they should.  Face - not wearing balaclava's, face shields, etc.

Where the injuries are often is telling of where the problem is - faces/feet - usually leaders/medics/buddies not looking out for each other, since it's simple to say "Show me our face" or "Look at me" on the march or on breaks, making sure people are warming themselves or changing socks periodically at breaks in the march or during camp routine.  Hands - usually individual soldiers thinking they look dumb wearing mittens...though it can be argued that leaders need to pull those people aside and tell them that mitts are more appropriate for many/most situations and why.  Higher risk in smokers as well, as smoking affects microcirculation to fingies and toesies and elsewhere...besides the obvious bit where they need to hold the cigarette somehow.  There are of course the occasional freezer burn injuries to exposed backsides on the little blue toilet rings, made worse by getting stuck  8).

:2c:

MM

 

[Haggis]

It would be interesting to see the injury patterns .  Hands and fingers - likely not getting gloves/mitts back on quickly OR wearing gloves instead of mittens, since mittens keep your fingers warmer.  Some people think wearing mittens isn't very "cool"/hard - obviously also don't live or work in cold conditions usually.

Not being able to manipulate your weapon as easily in mitts will make people shy away from wearing them. Often they will wear gloves which are ideally suited for dexterity but offer little to no insulation.

Feet - likely not wearing mukluks, not wearing them properly or not changing socks and warming feet when they should.

Was there not a prohibition on driving in mukluks a few years ago? This could have been a contributing factor to armoured troops footwear selection for this activity.

There are of course the occasional freezer burn injuries to exposed backsides on the little blue toilet rings, made worse by getting stuck.

Easily prevented by placing a layer or two of TP over the ring before sitting down.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Haggis]

Easily prevented by placing a layer or two of TP over the ring before sitting down.
[/quote]

Remember all the weekend trips we took to Petawawa in the winter? I used to eat a block of st-Albert's cheese on the way there  to avoid those frozen seats.

One time the cheese had the reverse effect--some (life) lessons aren't learned  in lesson plans  ;D

 

[medicineman]

Not being able to manipulate your weapon as easily in mitts will make people shy away from wearing them. Often they will wear gloves which are ideally suited for dexterity but offer little to no insulation.

Was there not a prohibition on driving in mukluks a few years ago? This could have been a contributing factor to armoured troops footwear selection for this activity.

Easily prevented by placing a layer or two of TP over the ring before sitting down.

I have never heard of a prohibition on driving in mukluks - and I've only been out for a year and a half.  Having said that, nothing surprises me much, though I'd have thought that a prohibition on parachuting in them would have come first...given I had a harder time driving with upsoled combat boots than I ever did with mukuks really makes me wonder why that would happen.  For weapon handling and other dexterity things, I get that, but there are arctic trigger guards and shooting mitts and the charging handles have been changed such that you don't need to do the split finger grasp to cock the C7/8's.  Arctic mitts have room in them to wear a glove liner - get your hand out and then back in as soon as job is done.  I will confess that my last couple years of reserve time I used my Cabellas hunting mitts a lot - built in gloves, finger cover flips back to expose the gloved fingies, then flip back to warm them up.  The bumburn issue was largely a joke on my part...

MM

 

[Haggis]

I have never heard of a prohibition on driving in mukluks - and I've only been out for a year and a half.

  I recall seeing something ... I retired in December so I can't research it any longer.  Hopefully someone with DWAN access will chime in and set me straight.

For weapon handling and other dexterity things, I get that, but there are arctic trigger guards and shooting mitts and the charging handles have been changed such that you don't need to do the split finger grasp to **** the C7/8's.  Arctic mitts have room in them to wear a glove liner - get your hand out and then back in as soon as job is done. 

Yup, got that, but how many troops actually make the effort to set up their rifle/carbine trigger guard correctly for arctic ops with mitts?  Or will they just wear LCF gloves?

The bumburn issue was largely a joke on my part...

Okay.. but my idea worked/works well.

 

[PuckChaser]

I recall seeing something ... I retired in December so I can't research it any longer.  Hopefully someone with DWAN access will chime in and set me straight.

I remember sometime similar being said mid 2000s into early 2010s. I didn't bother checking into it because I drove in them anyways.

 

[Gunner98]

In Shilo and Gagetown the ranges used to close at -35'C without wind chill.  When I was part of the schools in those locations we still went to the field a lot but not always overnight.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I have never heard of a prohibition on driving in mukluks - . . .    The bumburn issue was largely a joke on my part...

Back when the Earth was still cooling (I think it was sometime in the late 1970s) when one dug a hole, large or small depending on quantity, to accommodate human waste during exercises, there was occasion that a small US Army contingent was with us in Wainwright when the weather was appropriate for "winter warfare".  One of the items of comfort gear that they had with them was an all metal, collapsible, portable camping toilet.  While this may have benefits of durability and ease of cleaning it definitely was not ideal when the temp dipped below freezing.  There was more than one Southern gentleman who, unaccustomed to the weather, found himself stuck to the seat.

As for driving in mukluks, I recall a time (also long ago, it might have even been during that Rapier Thrust previously mentioned) when direction came down that drivers had to wear full winter gear (mukluks, parkas, etc) even when behind the wheel.  On a couple of previous exercises (including a 1 Fd Amb winter ex in Wainwright) there had been some casualties that resulted following vehicle breakdown/accident when the crew/occupants were left stranded for prolonged periods without adequate cold weather gear.

 

[Haggis]

I remember sometime similar being said mid 2000s into early 2010s. I didn't bother checking into it because I drove in them anyways.

My memory is kinda fuzzy on it.  the restriction may have been vehicle specific.. I recall something to do with insufficient clearance between the brake and accelerator pedals making it possible to press both while wearing mukluks. Or maybe it was boots, rubber, clumsy.  Like I said..... fuzzy.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Anyone who ever drove an M 113 with a dodgy heater across the Wainwright tundra in January would joyfully tell you to go take a flying fuck at a rolling bagel if you said he couldn't wear his mukluks.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

People don't always listen to 'instruction' either and end up a casualty of the cold.  Last winter, there was a candidate on the Aircrew Arctic Survival course run by CFSSAT, Wpg.  The first serial ran in Jan 2018, one of the student 'insisted' they couldn't work with gloves or mitts on.  Then the staff noticed...the same candidate without a toque or anything on their head.

The staff (mostly SAR Techs) told the mbr to dress right, etc repeatedly.  Student was removed for their own safety shortly after but not without some cold injuries.

It's not exactly warm at Crystal City in January...I recall temps of -50 and colder in the wind.  No gloves/mitts/hat ???

 

[daftandbarmy]

People don't always listen to 'instruction' either and end up a casualty of the cold.  Last winter, there was a candidate on the Aircrew Arctic Survival course run by CFSSAT, Wpg.  The first serial ran in Jan 2018, one of the student 'insisted' they couldn't work with gloves or mitts on.  Then the staff noticed...the same candidate without a toque or anything on their head.

The staff (mostly SAR Techs) told the mbr to dress right, etc repeatedly.  Student was removed for their own safety shortly after but not without some cold injuries.

It's not exactly warm at Crystal City in January...I recall temps of -50 and colder in the wind.  No gloves/mitts/hat ???

Like not wearing a helmet in combat..... people like that need to be released ASAP.

 

[OldSolduer]

Anyone who ever drove an M 113 with a dodgy heater across the Wainwright tundra in January would joyfully tell you to go take a flying frig at a rolling bagel if you said he couldn't wear his mukluks.

Yes I know that feeling all too well.

So today for shytes and giggles I dressed in mukluk like things, ski pants, fleece under a light insulated jacket, with toque and gloves. Shovelled snow for about an hour. No issues other than glasses fogging up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yes I know that feeling all too well.

So today for shytes and giggles I dressed in mukluk like things, ski pants, fleece under a light insulated jacket, with toque and gloves. Shovelled snow for about an hour. No issues other than glasses fogging up.

And it was only Minus 34, right?

 

[GAP]

And it was only Minus 34, right?

With a -51 C windchill......but who is counting....

 

[OldSolduer]

And it was only Minus 34, right?

-35 C. Balmy. Until tonight at -37 and my truck doesn’t start. Still shivering a bit.
The plug ins for block heaters at work are on a timer. So the block isn’t warm, therefore extra strain on the battery and engine. Good thing that cables were available.

 

[Retired and Broken]

With a -51 C windchill......but who is counting....

Yeah, but it was a dry cold.

 

[Rifleman62]

We were in Churchill when it was still an Army cold weather school (??). Storm came up. It was so cold with the windchill that the polar bear sentry had to be pulled in. The safety M113 keep going all night. Saw a Blackbart from Churchill Rocket Research Range launch.

Anyone read or heard on the news about global warming lately? Anything from the Honorable Catherine McKenna, Minister of the Environment and Climate Change? It seems when there are winter storms or freezing temperatures they shut up.

 

[mariomike]

Anyone read or heard on the news about global warming lately?

Someone was tweeting about it,
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+climate+%22global+warming%22&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjC2qbA5pXgAhUG4IMKHYBRByMQpwUIJQ&biw=1280&bih=641

For discussion of the subject,

Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/32987.925
118 pages.

 

[RocketRichard]

We were in Churchill when it was still an Army cold weather school (??). Storm came up. It was so cold with the windchill that the polar bear sentry had to be pulled in. The safety M113 keep going all night. Saw a Blackbart from Churchill Rocket Research Range launch.

Anyone read or heard on the news about global warming lately? Anything from the Honorable Catherine McKenna, Minister of the Environment and Climate Change? It seems when there are winter storms or freezing temperatures they shut up.

Why yes as a matter of fact this was tweeted recently by Trump ;

‘In the beautiful Midwest, windchill temperatures are reaching minus 60 degrees, the coldest ever recorded. In coming days, expected to get even colder. People can’t last outside even for minutes. What the hell is going on with Global Waming? Please come back fast, we need you!’


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