• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan

???  I'm not sure I agree with Pres Bush's reasoning for being in Afghanistan &/or Iraq.
We are there>>>  therefore, I deem it necessary to stand "strong".
It may not be our fight, but it could be relative to our "freedom" that our ancestors fought & left lots of blood in europe for.
 
I read the poll and the list of replies on the globe with saddness.  the Liberal party has taken canada so far out into left field and filled so many canadians with Anti-americanism; and they can even see the real reason why Canada is there.  Its not support Bush and not to help to the war in iraq, its to build a new nation where there was really noe before.  to keep Afghanistan from felling back to the terrorist state it was before 2001.

the Liberal party has canadians thinking they can just about peace and a better world and it happen, without doing any work or sending in the troops to help it happen.  its sad to say but i doubt even an attack here in canada would do much to change the 40 years Liberal party spin.
 
S_Baker

  I agree with you.  Living with the threat of being killed for doing anything the regime doesn't approve of doesn't appear to be the sort of world I'd choose to live in.  I do think we have to keep in mind that the vast majority of Iraqis, a nation of 25 million, aren't involved in either the "resistance" or getting hit by IEDs.
 
I would really like to add to Lost_Warrior's comments, with which I agree. I really don't understand why the US let their relationship with Saddam deteriorate to the level that it did. Here was a secular non-Islamist Sunni tyrant totally in opposition to the Shiite theocracy in Iran. Now you have this chaos and a virtual civil war in Iraq that the Shiites, by sheer force of numbers, are bound to win. In any case, thanks to imported democracy, they will dominate Iraq one way or another. From the US point of view, what strategic interest did this serve? ???
 
Strictly speaking the majority of the population probably should hold the balance of power; certainly a Sunni minority ruling over a Shiite majority flies in the face of things.  I don't know that Iraq will descend into a civil war if the vast majority of people don't go along with those who are trying to start one.    I was always amused at how Saddam tried to portray himself as a devout Muslim while bringing about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people.  ::)
 
Pencil Tech said:
I would really like to add to Lost_Warrior's comments, with which I agree. I really don't understand why the US let their relationship with Saddam deteriorate to the level that it did. Here was a secular non-Islamist Sunni tyrant totally in opposition to the Shiite theocracy in Iran. Now you have this chaos and a virtual civil war in Iraq that the Shiites, by sheer force of numbers, are bound to win. In any case, thanks to imported democracy, they will dominate Iraq one way or another. From the US point of view, what strategic interest did this serve? ???

The Americans were in short playing with both Iran and Iraq. During the Iran-Iraq War, the Americans were giving support to both sides of the conflict. The Americans sold TOW missiles and other weapons to the Iranians, and then gave money and weapons to the Iraqis. The Americans did not want one country to be stronger than the other, so as one side looked like they were winning, the Americans propped up the other side until things were equal. The Americans did not like either Saddam or the Ayatollahs in Iran, so the in Washington came to the conclusion that Saddam was the lesser of the two evils, so they gave more visable and direct help to Iraq while doing under the table dealings with Iraq first through Israel then directly. All this directly lead to the various Iraq-gate and Iran-Contra affairs in the US.
 
Note: It should be "doing under the table dealings with Iran first through Israel then directly" than "doing under the table dealings with Iraq first through Israel then directly"... my bad...
 
I agree, where were the polls conducted?
A poll done in highly socialist, left wing areas would totally throw off the results of the survey,
especially since most Canadians arent left wing.
 
  Surveys are done to accomplish a desired effect , so with that I view this statistic as engineered . I do not subscribe however to this notion of War on Terror , the western world is under no threat from a terrorist attack for islamic fundamentalist Taliban . It is a nation rebuilding  mission and it is worth it as long as you stick within those boundaries , of course you need to protect yourself but conducting operations against beligerants should be well thought out .
 
Here is a follow-up (from the poll) editorial from today’s Globe and Mail (reproduced under the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060225.EAFGHAN25/TPStory/Opinion/editorials
Why Canadian troops have gone to Afghanistan

It is perhaps not surprising that a Globe and Mail poll reveals that an astonishing 62 per cent of Canadians oppose the decision to send troops to Afghanistan. There was, after all, no parliamentary debate last year on the nation's heightened commitment to that fragile state. The issue of our increasing deployment barely surfaced in the recent election, even though 2,300 Canadian soldiers were then preparing to move into the perilous southern province of Kandahar. As General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff, ruefully acknowledged yesterday, "Many Canadians do not know or understand the complexities of what the Afghan mission is about, why we are there and its critical importance to Canada. The number . . . indicates we have a significant challenge."

The government could tackle that challenge with a belated parliamentary discussion. If nothing else, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor could spell out how and why Canada will take command of the multinational brigade headquarters in Kandahar next week. It is a legitimate and honourable undertaking. After the terrorist attacks of September, 2001, and the ousting of Afghanistan's Taliban regime, that nation's new leaders worked with the United Nations to provide security. The resulting International Security Assistance Force operates with a UN mandate under the command of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization with 9,000 soldiers from 26 NATO members and 10 non-NATO members. Although the southern regions, including the multinational brigade, are now under U.S. command, NATO is expected to assume control over the region within several months.

The mission is dangerous, but worthy. Kandahar was the headquarters of al-Qaeda, and the region is rife with warlords, drug smugglers and extremist factions. Last year, when the former Liberal government announced it would move its forces from the relative safety of Kabul to Kandahar, almost tripling troop strength, then-defence-minister Bill Graham went on a brave speaking tour in late summer to outline the dangers. Almost no one paid attention as he made the point that if extremists win the upper hand in Afghanistan, they could destabilize a nation that has braved enormous odds to hold free elections over the past two years. Those extremists could also turn ancient Afghanistan into a terrorist enclave once again that could threaten global stability.

Surely it is time that Ottawa tackled the glaring gap between Canadian public opinion and global needs. The government could start with a thorough debate about Afghanistan -- if only because 73 per cent of Canadians believe the deployment should have parliamentary approval. In fact, no House of Commons motion could deter the government's decision to move into Kandahar. As University of Toronto constitutional-law expert Sujit Choudhry notes, "the legal power to deploy troops is one of cabinet's powers under the National Defence Act, and it stems from the Crown's inherent power to make peace and war." But the very airing of the issues would be an end in itself.

As well, Prime Minister Stephen Harper should follow through with his preliminary plans to visit the forces in their dangerous encampment. That high-level mission might do what Ottawa should have done months ago: secure national support for this vital initiative.

In an editorial published here http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33760.0.html in September of 2005, Army.ca took the (Liberal) government-of-the-day to task for a ”Lack of leadership.”  Now it is the turn of Prime Minister Harper’s government and, I, at least agree with the Globe:  Mr. Harper needs to lead Canadians to an informed understanding of and support for the mission in Afghanistan; he needs to lead Canadians to understand and support the requirement to transform our armed forces by, inter alia, increasing the number of personnel by many thousands, tens of thousands, and giving them enough new, better equipment to do the job; in the process he can strengthen our democracy by taking note of Canadians’ elected representatives’ views on our operations – all over the world.  
 
this may sound trite, but I would rather die free than die a slave, and that is exactly what the people are under a tyrants rule.  No one should ever have to apologize for being free!

Very true, and I agree.  The thing I do not agree with is when people say that the Iraqi people are better off today than they were under Saddam.  This is not correct.  They are still in danger of death, and their country is slowly spiraling into chaos.  It all depends on what someone’s view of better off is.  The country held together under tyrannical rule, or the country tearing itself apart under a false veil of freedom.
 
Now you have this chaos and a virtual civil war in Iraq that the Shiites, by sheer force of numbers, are bound to win.

If "sheer force of numbers" guaranteed a win how is it that the Shiites were subjugated by the Baathists for the last 30 years, or the Sunnis for the last 1400 years?  How did the Brits thrive in India with a presence numbered in the 10s and 100s of thousands in a population numbered in the 10s and 100s of millions?

There have been many examples of minorities ruling over majorities historically.  The Liberals and the Normans come to mind.  In fact it seems arguable that that is the norm, even in democratic societies.

In all this talk about failure in Iraq and troubles in Afghanistan the point that seems to be missed is not how easily the extremists and the young can be engaged but how worn out the majority of the population is.  It's hard to motivate tired people.  That actually gives the forces of order their best chance for success.

In the aftermath of the recent bombing of the Shia temple in Samarra some hot-heads from Sadr's neighbourhood beat up on easily accessible Sunni mosques in Baghdad.  Meanwhile Sunni and Shia paraded and prayed together in opposition to the terrorists in Samarra and Kut and in Basra Shia stood guard outside Sunni mosques to protect them.

Not everybody over there is 19 or a fanatic and itching for a fight.

 
S_Baker said:
this may sound trite, but I would rather die free than die a slave, and that is exactly what the people are under a tyrants rule.  No one should ever have to apologize for being free!

Not trite, however the vast majority of people really want "security" not "freedom," and that includes Americans.
 
S_Baker said:
this may sound trite, but I would rather die free than die a slave, and that is exactly what the people are under a tyrants rule.  No one should ever have to apologize for being free!

Not to sound insulting (which I seriously am not trying to be) but it really doesn't make a lick of difference what YOU want, it's what they want. I won't speculate as to what "they" wanted prior to the invasion, after, or at any other point. It's dangerous to think that because you believe/want something, everyone else must too. Unfortunately, that kind of autocentrism seems to characterize the current US administration's attitude.
 
Freedom or Security.

Individual or Collective.

Country or Town.

Do it yourself or hire a tradesman.
 
In the short term what ever President Bush and his supporters do on the Eastern Front may seem demagogic.

Over the long term - since the late 80s - its more understandable.

If you disagree with Bush et al and think we should stay out - then thats great. But I challenge the naysayers to check out the CURRENT EVENTS FORUM for Thomas Barnett`s 305  MEG Video briefing that will jolt you.

What the briefing called "Shrinking the Gap — Globalization and US National Security," is all about

Since the end of the Cold War, the biggest threats to America and its allies come from underdeveloped, chaotic regions of the Third World. He calls these regions the "Gap," a zone disconnected from the economic and technological advances of globalization.

The briefing downlink http://www.sandia.gov/ACG/videos/TBarnett_June605_1123791436_457kbps.wmv

Note where there are no current deployments AFRICA - guess where your kids will be going.

You can`t give the Coaches Corner take on this as it ain`t a game.
 
The mission was to get rid of Saddam

No.  The mission was to find WMD and dis-arm Saddam.  Had Saddam had no suspicion of having WMD's, he would be just another 3rd world dictator on the US map...  It was only after no WMD were found did the "reasoning" for invasion shift to "removing Saddam".

stabilize the country (what we are doing) and then leave.

No, US forces are NOT stabilizing the nation.  The nation is at the brink of a civil war.  Insurgents are everywhere.  Bombs go off every day.  Not a day goes by without fear and bloodshed.  Unfortunately the latter might come before the former is complete.

  I don't give a rats *** what kind of government they elect, that is up to them

Actually that’s quite the opposite.  Many Islamic leaders were blocked from the election campaign because their views were not considered "Western friendly"  The fact remains, Iraqi's only have the choice to vote for who the US approves to run a campaign.  Not really much freedom there.  "You can vote for who you want as long as we tell you who to vote for"
 
Lost_Warrior said:
No.  The mission was to find WMD and dis-arm Saddam.   Had Saddam had no suspicion of having WMD's, he would be just another 3rd world dictator on the US map...   It was only after no WMD were found did the "reasoning" for invasion shift to "removing Saddam".
And you will place all your credibility on this statement?
Lost_Warrior said:
No, US forces are NOT stabilizing the nation.  The nation is at the brink of a civil war.  Insurgents are everywhere.  Bombs go off every day.  Not a day goes by without fear and bloodshed.  Unfortunately the latter might come before the former is complete.
After over sixty years, we still have troops 'of occupation' in Europe and Japan.  There is no "Magic Wand" that can be waved and make everything 'honky dory' afterwards.
Lost_Warrior said:
Actually that’s quite the opposite.  Many Islamic leaders were blocked from the election campaign because their views were not considered "Western friendly"   The fact remains, Iraqi's only have the choice to vote for who the US approves to run a campaign.   Not really much freedom there.  "You can vote for who you want as long as we tell you who to vote for"
A truly biased comment and totally false.  You have skewed the facts to give a very prejudiced view of what is actually happening.  It may not be perfect, but it is a lot better a start than nothing at all in an area of the world that is rot with corruption.
 
Just curious Lost Warrior, how did you know what Iraq was like before?.........maybe the free press? ::)
 
And you will place all your credibility on this statement?

Well, if you think some years back, Bush got in front of the UN and demanded action be taken if the weapons inspectors are not allowed to do their jobs.  Never once did he say "We have to go into Iraq because Saddam is a madman"  Bush got in front of the UN and said either you enforce the UN resolutions regarding WMD or we will invade to disarm him. 

Now if you look at when Bush said "Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" and then look back at the UN resolutions against Iraq with specific regard to resolution 1441.  This essentially gave the US the green light to attack if Saddam didn't "come clean" (as Bush called it) on it's weapons programs.    The deadline passed and the US invaded.  So given what Bush had presented as a reason to attack before the war, then yes.  I will place all my credibility on that statement.  It is after all, what Bush himself said.

After over sixty years, we still have troops 'of occupation' in Europe and Japan.  There is no "Magic Wand" that can be waved and make everything 'honky dory' afterwards.

Ok, that's nice and all, but it really has nothing to do with Iraq now does it.  It is very clear now that the US administration had no defining exit strategy.  They didn't plan for these sorts of things, and now that it's happening, and support back home is dwindling, they are looking for the fastest way possible to leave the country in the hands of the new "government" to deal with.

Japan and Europe were two very different wars, and two very different times in history.  World War 2 was a legal, justified war.  The US was attacked and had to defend itself.  Last I recall, Iraq never attacked the US and was not even a direct threat to it’s closest neighbors…

Just curious Lost Warrior, how did you know what Iraq was like before?.........maybe the free press?

I don't know what it was like before.  I only know what it is like now.  I go by what I see and read in the news.  One can claim that the media is run by Liberal leftists out to make the Bush administration look bad all they want.  The fact remains, what is happening in Iraq today cannot be denied with a silly picture...

On a side note, do you know what it was like in Iraq before?
 
Back
Top