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Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan

Hey, if you believe SOME "commentators", the trainers aren't even close to the fight  >:(

(....)

Foreign troops mentor from a distance

The use of the long-distance "negotiating tool", combined with "close air support" (CAS), underlines the sometimes cautious, circumspect nature of NATO's presence in southern Afghanistan. Indeed, various media have reported on the hide-and-seek nature of counter-insurgency in Afghanistan. "The U.S. and NATO forces only venture out to conduct special operations. Routine patrolling and intelligence gathering is the responsibility of the nascent Afghan National Army," writes John Cherian. Further, he asserts that "loyalty of the Afghan Security Forces cannot be taken for granted... For instance, General Bismillah Khan, Chief of Staff of the Afghan National Army, is a former warlord".

This appears to come from this piece from Cherian, dealing with Taliban-India relations.  Funny how this is the ONLY paragraph cherry picked, from a 2005 report?

"Writing from Helmand province, the Globe and Mail's Graeme Smith remarks that "British troops were effectively under siege at their patrol base in Sangin [Helmand province] last year". And this fact isn't winning many friends for the foreign forces: "Those foreign [expletive deleted] say there is security - it’s a lie," charged one Afghan army commander. "They don’t risk their asses out here. There are Taleban right in the district centre, but the British and the Americans stay in their holes".

This is an interesting paragraph -- the highlighted quote in the paragraph seems to be found in this article by the Institute for War and Peace Reporting from earlier this summer, but not in any of Smith's pieces for the past two years (yes, I did check).  Wonder how firm the REST of his quotes are?

While Canadian soldiers appear to have been spared such disparaging accusations, ....

...but I'll mention it anyway.
 
Isn't it interesting that Ipsos ******* Reid interviewed the largest number of respondents in Ontario and Quebec, 2 of the places they got highest results for Bring the troops home. Once again, good (skewed) polling, Ipsos!

:cdn:
Hawk
 
Hawk said:
Isn't it interesting that Ipsos Reid interviewed the largest number of respondents in Ontario and Quebec..... Once again, good (skewed) polling, Ipsos!
Well, that is where the "largest number" of Canadians live.  Do you think it would have been less "skewed" if the "largest number" of respondents came from the two provinces with the smallest populations?
 
Hawk said:
Isn't it interesting that Ipsos ******* Reid interviewed the largest number of respondents in Ontario and Quebec, 2 of the places they got highest results for Bring the troops home. Once again, good (skewed) polling, Ipsos!

As MGC says, Stats Can says these two are also the biggest provinces by population - if most people living in Canada live in ON and QC (about six outta ten according to Stats Can), makes sense to have most survey respondents from these areas, too.

- edited to acknowledge those wiser and faster than me -
 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
....and, as we all know, contains the centre of the universe!  ::)

Yes, yes....I've moved to Ontario...but what does that have to do with polling on Afghanistan  ;D

[/sarcasm]
 
"Canadians still want out of Afghanistan"

That was the storiy I was confronted by running on the ticker on CTV Newsnet.  Far be for me to questions the findings of a poll, but I thought it was painting things with a broad brush.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071104/tories_poll_071104/20071104?hub=Canada
 
DirtyDog said:
"Canadians still want out of Afghanistan"

That was the storiy I was confronted by running on the ticker on CTV Newsnet.  Far be for me to questions the findings of a poll, but I thought it was painting things with a broad brush.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071104/tories_poll_071104/20071104?hub=Canada

Somebody started another thread on this article.

 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act, is a report from today’s Globe and Mail about the Remembrance Day services.

Of special note were the remarks by Rabbi Reuven Bulka at the end of the service. It is normal to hear applause when the veterans march on (and past) but in the half century plus that I have been attending these services I cannot ever recall hearing applause for a benediction.

Rabbi Bulka went beyond the normal scope of a prayer and invited Canadians to do more than remember the dead. He reminded us that CF members are, at the recruiting ads suggest, fighting for the right and for rights for all, including the wretched of the earth. It was pretty moving stuff.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071111.wremembr1111/BNStory/National/home
My emphasis added
Wreaths laid, dead remembered across country

STEVE RENNIE

The Canadian Press
November 11, 2007 at 7:11 PM EST

OTTAWA — Canadians laid wreaths to honour those slain on battlefields and during peacekeeping missions at Remembrance Day ceremonies across the country Sunday, but a thunderous response to a call to show support for soldiers currently serving injected some energy into what is normally a sombre occasion.

A smattering of applause snowballed after Rabbi Reuven Bulka, the honorary chaplain for the Dominion Command, urged thousands gathered at Ottawa's National War Memorial to chant "We love our troops."

Canada's top soldier couldn't contain a broad grin as the crowd applauded the country's men and women in uniform.

When asked later if he'd ever seen such an outpouring of support, Gen. Rick Hillier replied, "Not in this country, that's for sure."

"I think today, in particular, is going to be remembered for that line, which signifies in my view a coming awareness, a growing, increasing and now culminating awareness by Canadians of what their men and women in uniform do in service for them," he said in an interview.


Gen. Hillier, Gov.-Gen. Michaëlle Jean and Prime Minister Stephen Harper joined a host of dignitaries and veterans at the ceremonies across the street from the Parliament Buildings.

Both Ms. Jean and Mr. Harper, flanked by their families, laid wreathes before the estimated throng of 30,000 onlookers gathered under sunny skies, which included one woman who held up a small sign with the words "thank you."

Members of the Ottawa Children's Choir, all dressed in red, sang "O Canada."

In his prayer, the military's Chaplain General, Brig.-Gen. Stanley Johnstone, noted Canada has been shaped by the sacrifices Canadians made in battles like Vimy Ridge in the First World War and Dieppe and Normandy in the Second World War.

"May the memory be forever strong of those who preceded us in wars past and may their own courage and readiness of spirit to secure our future and our world for a greater hope be also known and taught among us," Gen. Johnstone told a hushed audience.

In the footstep of those who gave their lives in wars past, sacrifices are still necessary today in places like Afghanistan in order to preserve peace and protect our way of life, Gen. Johnstone added.

"We are paying our own debt for the future of our children with bravery and determination that befits the duty, but never with exaltation," he said.

Afghanistan's ambassador to Canada, Omar Samad, spoke of those sacrifices in an interview with The Canadian Press. Mr. Samad, who laid a wreath bearing his country's name at the base of the monument, said Canadian troops are part of a "very noble cause" in Afghanistan.

The 71 members of the Canadian Forces and one diplomat who have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002 won't soon be forgotten by Afghans who know all too well the price of war, Mr. Samad said.

"Afghanistan is a country that has suffered tremendously over the last 25 years. We have lost more than a million people as part of conflict," he said.

"We have a very destroyed nation where millions of others had to flee their homes, many of whom have now returned and come back because they see there's hope for Afghanistan and there's a future for Afghanistan."

Two opposition leaders on hand were careful not to wade too deep Sunday into what that future may hold for Canada's military.

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion and New Democrat Leader Jack Layton said they attended the ceremony to honour Canada's veterans, and while their views of the mission differ from the Prime Minister's, they're appreciative of the troops' efforts.

"We support our troops, we love our troops .... we have different views about how it should be managed, what should be the deadline to say that the combat mission is over. We have different views, but we are all Canadians today and we all love our troops," Mr. Dion said.

"They face a lot of difficult times, and they're willing to sacrifice for us. Our job is to make sure we decide what we ask them to do very, very carefully," added Layton.

Master Cpl. Paul Franklin, who lost both his legs to a suicide bomber's attack in January, 2006 that killed Canadian diplomat Glyn Berry and seriously injured two others in the armoured vehicle they were travelling in, also attended the ceremony.

It differed from past Remembrance Day ceremonies he'd attended, he said, "mainly because more of my friends are dead."

A slew of 'what ifs' went through his head during the ceremony, he said.

"What if it was me, what if I was gone and they were in my position, what if I was okay and they were injured? It's a difficult thought process."

Meanwhile, similar ceremonies were held in cities across Canada.

In Halifax, hundreds of observers, including Premier Rodney MacDonald and New Democrat MP Alexa McDonough, huddled near the downtown cenotaph as temperatures dipped below zero.

Charlotte Smith, whose son Pte. Nathan Lloyd Smith was killed during a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan in 2002, was greeted by applause as she laid a wreath on behalf of all Silver Cross mothers.

Allan Tanner, a veteran of the Norwegian merchant navy, said he was touched by the outpouring of support during the ceremony.

"It seems that people, and the young people, are starting to understand," said Mr. Tanner, 82, who kept warm under a blanket. "It makes you feel good."

In Saint John, N.B., that honour went to Laurie Greenslade, whose son, David, was killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan on Easter Sunday. She has been outspoken in her support for Canada's troops.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay told hundreds of people attending a rally Saturday in Shelburne, N.S., that Canadians are making a difference in the lives of Afghans.

"It is a great privilege for me to mark this Remembrance Day as the Minister of National Defence. It is an honour to be associated with the Canadian Forces, its history and traditions," Mr. MacKay said in a news release.

In Quebec City, Premier Jean Charest spoke to a crowd at the cenotaph. Most of the soldiers in Canada's current contingent in Afghanistan are based at nearby Valcartier.

Mr. Charest said despite the "difficulties and risks" of the Afghan mission Quebeckers have a duty to support their soldiers deployed in Afghanistan.

Mr. Charest met with family members of Master Warrant Officer Mario Mercier, who died in a roadside bombing. Mr. Charest urged Quebeckers to take every opportunity to let the family know "that Quebeckers are thinking of them."

In Toronto, hundreds of dignitaries, war veterans, military personnel, cadets and observers gathered before the Ontario Veterans' Memorial outside the provincial legislature Sunday to mark the occasion.

The traditional service included a moment of silence, a 21-gun salute, the reading of "In Flanders' Fields" and the laying of wreaths.

Canadians have a "duty" to support the families of those men and women who are fighting in Afghanistan, said Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.

"Today, on the other side of our world, Canadians are again fighting for those same principles, for the cause of freedom, to bring hope to a land torn apart by decades of warfare. Our soldiers are serving their country, they're doing their duty. Sometimes paying the ultimate price," he said.

In Vancouver and Edmonton, ceremonies were held at a number of venues.

There were ceremonies at Calgary's HMCS Tecumseh — a unit of the Canadian Forces Naval Reserve properly referred to as a ship — and the city's military museums, along with a wreath-laying ceremony at the Central Memorial Park cenotaph.

Members of 38 Canadian Brigade group, some of whom are deploying to Afghanistan next year, were on parade at two armouries in Winnipeg. A larger ceremony was also held at Winnipeg's convention centre.

In Afghanistan on Sunday, the families of five Canadian soldiers killed in action took part in a Remembrance Day ceremony at Kandahar Air Field.

The families placed fresh green wreaths, with the word "Canada" and bright red poppies, beside their names on the cenotaph inside the Canadian compound.

I don’t know if Ottawa, 2007 was my most memorable Remembrance day (I remember when it was called Armistice Day) but it may be the most memorable for many Canadians who were invited to do more than just remember.

I’m posting this here, rather than in the Remembrance Day thread, because I think this is about public opinion. It may not have been a poll but the applause, and the ‘opinion’ it represents, was ‘measured’ by the media and reported upon.

 
I experienced the same thing at my local remembrance service yesterday. I have been trying to put in words what this article describes. The few WWII vets left were delivered by car to the site. But the entire service had a new vibrancy and energy I have never felt in the many previous years. The crowd was large and attentive with much clapping for each group as they marched on.
Our local Mayor spoke from the heart of what a great country this is and the sacrifice of our forces. The Chaplin recited the 23 Psalm.
There had been a renewed effort to organize the service in a manner in keeping with it's newly recognized meaning.
 
Troop pullout favoured, poll finds
TheStar.com - Canada - January 01, 2008 Richard Brennan OTTAWA BUREAU
Article Link

OTTAWA–With the body of another Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan due to arrive home tomorrow, the majority of Canadians are calling for an early troop withdrawal from the war-torn country.

Gunner Jonathan Dion, 27, a member of the 5th Régiment d'Artillerie légère du Canada, based in Valcartier, Que., was killed by a roadside bomb Sunday, bringing Canada's armed forces death toll to 74 since 2001.

An online survey of 1,052 Canadians by Angus Reid Strategies, conducted Dec. 19 and 20, shows 53 per cent of those polled believe Canada's troops should be withdrawn before the February 2009 deadline. Sixty-one per cent reject any suggestions of extending the mission beyond the deadline.

While Prime Minister Stephen Harper has mused about extending the mission if the House of Commons is agreeable, the poll shows 60 per cent of those surveyed don't believe Harper has done a good job of explaining Canada's role in Kandahar.

"The federal government continues to face a challenge in courting Canadians," concludes the survey, which is considered accurate plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Seventy-one per cent – up dramatically from 58 per cent in July – believe Canada is shouldering too much of the burden of the NATO Afghan mission, which involves nearly 40 countries and a total force of about 41,700 troops.

While Canadian troops – some 2,500 – amount to roughly 6 per cent of all soldiers in Afghanistan, they account for 10 per cent of the fatalities. Canada is now third on the list of fatalities, behind the United States and Britain.

Among those surveyed in the poll, 47 per cent regard Canada's role as a war mission, while only 28 per cent believe the country is playing its historic peacekeeping role.

An independent panel, led by former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley, is looking into Canada's role in Afghanistan and is to report to Parliament. It has been charged with gathering information and recommending what Canada's role should be after 2009.
More on link
 
GAP said:
Troop pullout favoured, poll finds
TheStar.com - Canada - January 01, 2008 Richard Brennan OTTAWA BUREAU
Article Link

OTTAWA–With the body of another Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan due to arrive home tomorrow, the majority of Canadians are calling for an early troop withdrawal from the war-torn country.

Gunner Jonathan Dion, 27, a member of the 5th Régiment d'Artillerie légère du Canada, based in Valcartier, Que., was killed by a roadside bomb Sunday, bringing Canada's armed forces death toll to 74 since 2001.

An online survey of 1,052 Canadians by Angus Reid Strategies, conducted Dec. 19 and 20, shows 53 per cent of those polled believe Canada's troops should be withdrawn before the February 2009 deadline. Sixty-one per cent reject any suggestions of extending the mission beyond the deadline.

While Prime Minister Stephen Harper has mused about extending the mission if the House of Commons is agreeable, the poll shows 60 per cent of those surveyed don't believe Harper has done a good job of explaining Canada's role in Kandahar.

"The federal government continues to face a challenge in courting Canadians," concludes the survey, which is considered accurate plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Seventy-one per cent – up dramatically from 58 per cent in July – believe Canada is shouldering too much of the burden of the NATO Afghan mission, which involves nearly 40 countries and a total force of about 41,700 troops.

While Canadian troops – some 2,500 – amount to roughly 6 per cent of all soldiers in Afghanistan, they account for 10 per cent of the fatalities. Canada is now third on the list of fatalities, behind the United States and Britain.

Among those surveyed in the poll, 47 per cent regard Canada's role as a war mission, while only 28 per cent believe the country is playing its historic peacekeeping role.

An independent panel, led by former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley, is looking into Canada's role in Afghanistan and is to report to Parliament. It has been charged with gathering information and recommending what Canada's role should be after 2009.
More on link

I hate that phrase!
 
Just more proof of a saying that I read recently in a recent book:  "Failure is success in Canada".
 
The poll is probably skewed to get the result the pollster wanted. We see this alot in the US. Online survey ? If they are so accurate why not vote on line ? It would have been great to see the actual poll instead of the media version of what the poll says.
 
Shit like this disgusts me.

It seems to me that the intestinal fortitude of the "average" Canadian (debateable whether they really ARE average Canadians though of course for polls like this -- I've been hung up on by pollsters when they didn't like my initial answer) polled with this question and left wing politicians ALWAYS wavers with "sentimental holidays" approaching and also wavers in the immediate aftermath of the loss of a member of the CF while in Afghanistan.

Besides slanting the god-damed question to obtain the results they want to glean -- the timing of the polling is impeccable. What a load of tripe and bullshit.

The highjacking and exploitation of our service members in this manner, our fallen and their sacrifice, our injured and their well-being, and our still-deployed ... is a despicable and cowardly act. Especially so by the politicians and the persons responsible for commissioning the polls.

Wake up Canada. Don't you feel used yet in the pursuance of someone's clear political agenda?
 
Wouldn't the best kind of un-official poll(anything that isn't a country-wide vote) be one that only included Canadian soldiers?

Wonder why you never see any of those... :\
 
ArmyVern said:
...the timing of the polling is impeccable.

Poll was conducted 19 and 20th of Dec.

53% of such a small sample from the Internet means SFA (and since it's the Internet, there's no gaurantee the voting bodies were unique individuals or even Canadian).  The confidence interval probably dips below the 50% line, which is likely why it is not mentioned.
 
ixium said:
Wouldn't the best kind of un-official poll(anything that isn't a country-wide vote) be one that only included Canadian soldiers?

Wonder why you never see any of those... :\

Who says none were surveyed?  Vern has already stated that she has been 'surveyed' by a pollster.  I have had them call my home.  They don't list the occupations of who they call in their survey.  They just make random calls in many cases.  Sometimes they have a cross-section of society enlisted/registered to answer their polls.  

Remember; they are playing with statistics and statistics can be manipulated to give many different responses.
 
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