Canadian modular assault rifle project, a C7 replacement?

[PrairieFella]

To my understanding, they’re specifically trialing various optics right now in order to figure out what desirable requirements to write in to the procurement.

Procurement done fright for a change. Well done.

 

[Fabius]

Procurement done fright for a change. Well done.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here

 

[PrairieFella]

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here

I will be cautiously optimistic that something is being done right. Let me have something lol.

 

[markppcli]

Procurement done fright for a change. Well done.

Ibe done trials of “things” where we picked our favourites…. that was the ran through a cost matrix and we ended up with side zip royers.

 

[Fabius]

I’m hoping that I am wrong but most of the user trials I am tracking so far from the units have all been very limited.
5 round grouping at 100,200and 300m. Prone, sitting, kneeling and standing on a know distance range on static tgts.

Nothing wrong with that but it offers no insight into different optics pros and cons for CQB distances, nor achieving PID at ranges past 300m etc.

Just seems pretty limited data will be generated from these.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I’m hoping that I am wrong but most of the user trials I am tracking so far from the units have all been very limited.
5 round grouping at 100,200and 300m. Prone, sitting, kneeling and standing on a know distance range on static tgts.

Nothing wrong with that but it offers no insight into different optics pros and cons for CQB distances, nor achieving PID at ranges past 300m etc.

Just seems pretty limited data will be generated from these.

Random Sig question here, but, wouldn't this be more a baseline for overall functionality ("squeeze trigger, goes bang, round hits target") vice specific use case testing further down the line?

If memory serves me correctly, the reason theyre moving to the C-MAR is so that it can be re-roled and configured with different optics, hardware, and attachments with more ease that our current C7/C8A2.

By doing a "yep, still is shooting straight" test first, would that not be the minimum to start with before going role specific?

 

[Fabius]

In my opinion/understanding the trial has two components.

1st is the rifle itself. Things like trigger manipulation, recoil management, ability to adopt firing positions, comms with a suppressed weapon. Outside of the suppressor piece the rifle is still an AR pattern rifle with the same form factor. There isn’t really much to confirm here in my opinion outside the suppressed capability. The rifle is supposed to be more accurate though.

2nd is the optics. This one is more interesting and important in my mind as the C8A4 is largely set while the optic isn’t.
Optic wise they are looking at things like optic clarity, field of view, focal plane, weight,bulk, CCQ useage, integration with buttstock and FFO/PPE, overall weapon handling etc.

 

[KevinB]

Some of the CA social media was posting from the trials.

The last picture on the right the guy hasn't locked in the CTR stock - so he's not getting the advantage of it over a standard carbine stock (see my hastily drawn little circle in red below)

Seems like they have the same New Equipment Training Team as the UK SOF as 90% of those aren't locked either.
- annoyingly it takes like a millisecond to push it in when you have adjusted the stock - and pops out of lock when you squeeze the internal adjustment lever so there is no downside to locking it.

 

[Fabius]

I’m not surprised. I would guess that there isn’t a Trg team outside of maybe a few program guys who aren’t really trainers. Going through some other pictures it’s about 50/50 if the stocks are locked.

There’s a few interesting items in the pictures. One is that the DSSPM Human Factors Support Cell has specifically asked for feedback on overall integration with PPE and FFO yet no one is actually wearing it (vest by itself doesn’t count in my opinion).

Second is that they are specifically looking for feedback on sling comparability yet the MLOCK forend is not set up for any QD attachment despite the CTR stock m nor is there a sling in sight. Also seems like backplate is still just set up for the HK type hooks.

This is only one unit and only a snap shot in pictures so maybe it’s better than it appears.

 

[childs56]

The last picture on the right the guy hasn't locked in the CTR stock - so he's not getting the advantage of it over a standard carbine stock (see my hastily drawn little circle in red below)
View attachment 87439
Seems like they have the same New Equipment Training Team as the UK SOF as 90% of those aren't locked either.
- annoyingly it takes like a millisecond to push it in when you have adjusted the stock - and pops out of lock when you squeeze the internal adjustment lever so there is no downside to locking it.

What is the upside or down side of using the friction lock?

• Are they handing the rifle off to another shooter after a shooting a mag or two?
• Were they shown how the friction lock works?
• does the person even care to use it?

Does it make that big of a deal especially if they are just testing the platform. Or is it critical to the function of the butt stock? in providing more stable pressure point?
Just curious.

 

[KevinB]

What is the upside or down side of using the friction lock?

Using it makes the stock a lot more sturdy, and while not likely on a 5.56mm gun, not locking it on a 7.62/6.5CM gas gun can often result in the stock collapsing on recoil - akin to what can occur if you shoot prone and hold the older collapsible stocks by the toe of the stock, and accidentally actuate the release.

• Are they handing the rifle off to another shooter after a shooting a mag or two?

Again using the adjustment lever will automatically unlock the stock, so there is no reason not to, it doesn’t make it more awkward to adjust. These are new guns, so the stocks are probably fairly solid even without the lock, but a rattling stock can really ruin groups as you don’t get the same support under recoil.

• Were they shown how the friction lock works?

Probably not. Most of the Brits I’ve talked to didn’t know what it was.

• does the person even care to use it?

If they understand it, and still doesn’t use it, maybe they should find a different job, something like plying candy crush professionally.

Does it make that big of a deal especially if they are just testing the platform. Or is it critical to the function of the butt stock? in providing more stable pressure point?
Just curious.

It makes the stock a lot more rigid. My guess is they were not shown how to use it, or what it actually even was.

If you’re testing a carbine, optic etc and the stock moves during shooting, your results aren’t going to be as accurate as if the stock was used correctly.

When I see kit employed incorrectly, I tend to wonder what else is being missed or otherwise used incorrectly…

 

[dapaterson]

My FN to C7 conversion course was Cpl Noreau in the back of a MLVW with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth saying "You do this, you do this, then it's just like the fucking FN.". There may have been a few fine details lost...

 

[KevinB]

My FN to C7 conversion course was Cpl Noreau in the back of a MLVW with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth saying "You do this, you do this, then it's just like the fucking FN.". There may have been a few fine details lost...

My SARP was 3 weeks long.
By day 2, I was looking for spots to hang myself. I’m unsure what braniac determined that everyone needed to take lessons that really were designed to teach recruits how to use the rifle. Week 2 was all C9 and C6 so it wasn’t nearly as bad - and week 3 was ranges and how to teach the first 2 weeks.

I blame the RCR BSL as I found out later that some units did SARP Instructor courses inside 2 weeks, which was 90% on the ranges.

I will say that when we got the C7A1’s there was no optics course it was just here is the new rifle let’s go and zero it, pretty much the same for the C7A2 and C8SFW/FTHB changes.

I will say I felt bad when I was teaching at the RCR BSL and candidates on their ISCC and CLC’ who had never seen the C79 optic before had a lesson on it, but it was glorious to send some rather annoying Acting Lacking MP MCpl for CI’s Referral to teach it, and the dumb struck look they had when trying to figure out how it worked.
Yeah they got booted

 

[daftandbarmy]

The last picture on the right the guy hasn't locked in the CTR stock - so he's not getting the advantage of it over a standard carbine stock (see my hastily drawn little circle in red below)
View attachment 87439
Seems like they have the same New Equipment Training Team as the UK SOF as 90% of those aren't locked either.
- annoyingly it takes like a millisecond to push it in when you have adjusted the stock - and pops out of lock when you squeeze the internal adjustment lever so there is no downside to locking it.

Especially if you have to club someone to death with it, right?

 

[OldSolduer]

My SARP was 3 weeks long.
By day 2, I was looking for spots to hang myself. I’m unsure what braniac determined that everyone needed to take lessons that really were designed to teach recruits how to use the rifle. Week 2 was all C9 and C6 so it wasn’t nearly as bad - and week 3 was ranges and how to teach the first 2 weeks.

I blame the RCR BSL as I found out later that some units did SARP Instructor courses inside 2 weeks, which was 90% on the ranges.

I will say that when we got the C7A1’s there was no optics course it was just here is the new rifle let’s go and zero it, pretty much the same for the C7A2 and C8SFW/FTHB changes.

I will say I felt bad when I was teaching at the RCR BSL and candidates on their ISCC and CLC’ who had never seen the C79 optic before had a lesson on it, but it was glorious to send some rather annoying Acting Lacking MP MCpl for CI’s Referral to teach it, and the dumb struck look they had when trying to figure out how it worked.
Yeah they got booted

I finished my SAIC in 1987 (not 1887 like some of you would believe ) AND our CSM made us recently graduated SAIC guys who had the new family of weapons on course and put us on the conversion course. Anyone wanna guess who was CSM Charlie Coy 1 VP at the time?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I finished my SAIC in 1987 (not 1887 like some of you would believe ) AND our CSM made us recently graduated SAIC guys who had the new family of weapons on course and put us on the conversion course. Anyone wanna guess who was CSM Charlie Coy 1 VP at the time?

Damn it- I was going to ask you Snider-Enfield questions!

 

[markppcli]

I finished my SAIC in 1987 (not 1887 like some of you would believe ) AND our CSM made us recently graduated SAIC guys who had the new family of weapons on course and put us on the conversion course. Anyone wanna guess who was CSM Charlie Coy 1 VP at the time?

Adam?

 

[OldSolduer]

Adam?

LOL you wag - others on here may know him.

 

[FJAG]

Damn it- I was going to ask you Snider-Enfield questions!

I've still got my Martini-Henry.

 

[CBH99]

Especially if you have to club someone to death with it, right?

View attachment 87465

See?? Not a cell phone in sight. Just a group of people living in the moment...