I believe that there are valid concerns that need addressing but, these groups and these people distract from it all. just like at the G20, G8, Occupy etc. Some legitimate beefs and people using legitimate forms of protest but they get drowned out by louder dolts that muddle the message and end up smashing stuff.
Canada's First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, etc. (merged)
- Thread starter UberCree
- Start date
Retired AF Guy
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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Chief Stoker said:
You're not the first one to say it, and you won't be the last. But, that would mean all those chiefs would find themselves out of a job, hence, it will never happen.
- Reaction score
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Retired AF Guy said:
I have a few good friends that are in the military who are aboriginals. They are level headed people who have integrated well into society off the reserve. They still have their beliefs and even practice them on the ship IE smudging, pow wows. It boggles my mind when people would rather live in squalor in some unheated shack somewhere instead of taking responsibility for themselves and succeed. A few take advantage of free/subsidized education, preferential hiring but many don't, its a crying shame.
- Reaction score
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Chief Stoker said:
It boggles my mind when people would rather live on the pogey in a small town somewhere instead of taking responsibility for themselves and succeed.
There are plenty of folks outside the first nations communities who are doing exactly the same thing - I recall reading about some communities in the Maritimes where foreign workers are brought in to do things like work at Timmies- since none of the locals are willing to do it.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Which makes the new EI rules sensible and prudent.
Don't want to work? You don't get paid.
Don't want to work? You don't get paid.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
- 6,408
- Points
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Chief Stoker said:
I'll second that. I'm sure this sounds racist but if I was filling out a section and I had a choice from a variety of races I would pick a aboriginal first based solely off my experience. Loyal to a fault, ultra hard working, mature, dependable, driven, honourable. Amazing soldiers.
I think the culture they are brought up in is that everyone is against them and they need to meet and exceed the perceived choler.
Just two examples I came across this week.
1. I was reading a fellows facebook page. He went to get some medication and his indian card would not work. he was convinced that the government was doing it on purpose. Like REALLY convinced. Him AND the other dozen plus posters who's card wouldn't work at the pharmacy for medication either. Harper wanted to kill them! A day and a half of hatered later the system was back up and working and everything was fine.
2. A first nation woman was allegedly kidnapped in Thunderbay brought out to the woods sexually assaulted by two white guys and told that it was happening because of the blockades happening, it would happen again and native's do not deserve treaty rights or some shit like that.
In very short order accusations were leveled at the government for basically hiring thugs to kidnap this girl rape her and threaten her. Not a political entitiy- a 30 year old single mother. The people making the accusations sounded like they whole hardheartedly believed this.
How can you heal the rift between cultures when THIS is the first reaction?
Bluebulldog
Full Member
- Reaction score
- 128
- Points
- 680
"I'm sure this sounds racist"
No, it sounds objective. Something missing from many peoples perspectives on things these days. Just point out a few of the facts about the whole INM movement, or Theresa Spence's convenient Hunger strike / diet / misdirection, and there will be no shortage of people out there calling you a racist. However, I have often been of the opinon that you should stick by your guns ( funny....me formerly in an Arty Rgt).
"How can you heal the rift between cultures when THIS is the first reaction?"
You cant. People who spend their lives mired in the past, and re-hashing past mis-deeds, or perceived slights never build a successful future. The Indian Act is greatly flawed, but it represents a way of life to those in power on the First Nations side, that would be disasterous to them should any real change occur. So most of what they do is simply political posturing.
It's tragic, almost to the point of comedy that the first reaction is almost conspiracy theory-esque. Yes the Harper Govt is trying to kill off sick Indians....good grief....how someone comes up with that while actually being allowed to walk around society is scary......unless their meds were anti-psychotics....in which case...carry on. Or that a crime against a woman, native or no, was perpetuated by the govt.....but wait and see what shakes out on that investigation.
Interesting story. My boss also instructs in building code, and was invited up to Moose Factory / Moosonee a few years back. He met some very nice reserve folks, and non reserve folks. He also got into construction costs while there, because they were so skewed. Here is what he was told.
The Feds will give say $3M in funding for housing. But being the Govt they typically will give it out over a period of time, say 3 years. The band then goes and gets financing from a bank or trust for the full amount to facilitate the projects. The finance company ( remember, it's a small area) then gives the loan, but dictates to the band who they will use for trades, transport, etc. All of this results in a house, that is essentially a pre-fab, built in say North Bay, and shipped flat packed. We worked out costs. Typically these homes are on concrete block pillars, and are a one level 24'x36' bungalow. Costs of actual construction? Around $120,000. Shipping? By flatbed semi, and then barge, including crane rental to put up the trusses $40,000. So $160,000. Yet by the time everyone in the chain has had their hand in the purse for their "share" that house is upwards of $250,000. So on one home, there is $90K of value not realized.........wonder where all that goes?
The Indian Act, and the reserve system needs an overhaul in the worst way possible. Real change needs to occur. I have been an advocate for years that they should be registered as Municipalities, and then much of the governance, and checks and balances would be in place.
No, it sounds objective. Something missing from many peoples perspectives on things these days. Just point out a few of the facts about the whole INM movement, or Theresa Spence's convenient Hunger strike / diet / misdirection, and there will be no shortage of people out there calling you a racist. However, I have often been of the opinon that you should stick by your guns ( funny....me formerly in an Arty Rgt).
"How can you heal the rift between cultures when THIS is the first reaction?"
You cant. People who spend their lives mired in the past, and re-hashing past mis-deeds, or perceived slights never build a successful future. The Indian Act is greatly flawed, but it represents a way of life to those in power on the First Nations side, that would be disasterous to them should any real change occur. So most of what they do is simply political posturing.
It's tragic, almost to the point of comedy that the first reaction is almost conspiracy theory-esque. Yes the Harper Govt is trying to kill off sick Indians....good grief....how someone comes up with that while actually being allowed to walk around society is scary......unless their meds were anti-psychotics....in which case...carry on. Or that a crime against a woman, native or no, was perpetuated by the govt.....but wait and see what shakes out on that investigation.
Interesting story. My boss also instructs in building code, and was invited up to Moose Factory / Moosonee a few years back. He met some very nice reserve folks, and non reserve folks. He also got into construction costs while there, because they were so skewed. Here is what he was told.
The Feds will give say $3M in funding for housing. But being the Govt they typically will give it out over a period of time, say 3 years. The band then goes and gets financing from a bank or trust for the full amount to facilitate the projects. The finance company ( remember, it's a small area) then gives the loan, but dictates to the band who they will use for trades, transport, etc. All of this results in a house, that is essentially a pre-fab, built in say North Bay, and shipped flat packed. We worked out costs. Typically these homes are on concrete block pillars, and are a one level 24'x36' bungalow. Costs of actual construction? Around $120,000. Shipping? By flatbed semi, and then barge, including crane rental to put up the trusses $40,000. So $160,000. Yet by the time everyone in the chain has had their hand in the purse for their "share" that house is upwards of $250,000. So on one home, there is $90K of value not realized.........wonder where all that goes?
The Indian Act, and the reserve system needs an overhaul in the worst way possible. Real change needs to occur. I have been an advocate for years that they should be registered as Municipalities, and then much of the governance, and checks and balances would be in place.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
ballz said:
As I found out at Christmas same thing at the Timmies at Halifax International Airport. No locals were interested in commuting out there for "service industry minimum wage jobs" so they've imported Filipinos who seem to have no issues with the wages or commute.
- Reaction score
- 1,107
- Points
- 1,160
http://digital.nationalpost.com/epaper/viewer.aspx
National Post - 4 Jan 2013
Chief gives Ottawa 72 hours 23
Misguided hunger strike is manufacturing dissent
PETER FOSTER Nobody would deny the desperate conditions on many native reserves. Most Canadians are genuinely concerned and frustrated at how little improvement has been brought by the billions spent. However, to imagine that problems of poverty, ill health and poor education are best addressed — let alone solved — by histrionic threats, social-mediated mob scenes or blocked roads or rail lines is dangerous delusion.
Chief Theresa Spence, who was previously best known for declaring states of emergency — arguably rooted in her own mismanagement — at her Attawapiskat reserve, is suddenly being treated as some combination of Martin Luther King and Aung San Suu Kyi. Celebrity moths, bleeding hearts and clamberers up the greasy political pole have sought to invest her “hunger strike,” which is now into its fourth week, with noble purpose.
In fact, her initial threat to starve herself to death failing a meeting with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Governor General David Johnston suggested either a bizarre degree of narcissism, or revealed her as a witless puppet. Perhaps both.
Nevertheless, Chief Spence has obviously proved an embarrassment to mainstream native leadership, as has the recently unleashed Idle No More movement, with its dancing, drumming and transport blockades. On Thursday morning, Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo — in what appeared to be an attempt to seize back the “initiative” from Ms. Spence and the Idlers No More — revealed that he had sent an “urgent invitation” to the Prime Minister and the GG to meet with him on Jan. 24, the anniversary of last year’s Crown-First Nations gathering.
Although an urgent invitation obviously comes somewhere down the DEFCON scale from a hunger-strike-backed ultimatum, it is uncertain why the Prime Minister would want to commemorate a meeting that was so obviously a failure.
As for Idle No More, the title is profoundly ironic. One of the main problems for native people is the idleness that comes with living on remote reserves such as Attawapiskat in Northern Ontario. However, the Idle No More movement is not aimed at attracting more jobs. In fact, it opposes the very legal changes — contained in Bill C-45 — that would facilitate development, such as making the leasing of reserve land easier, and loosening draconian environmental regulation (a process started last year with Bill C-38). Thus the movement might more appropriately be named “Idle Some More.”
Chief Spence’s handlers have recently had her invoking the fact that “precious diamonds from my land grace the fingers and necklaces of Hollywood celebrities.” Presumably, her scriptwriters were aiming at dramatic contrast (and perhaps angling for a visit from James Cameron), but in fact development of such resources represents the only route out of dependence (and Attawapiskat has benefitted from the diamond developments to which Chief Spence referred).
The roots of aboriginal plight are not lack of goodwill on the part of Canadians, or even of political will on the part of the federal government. That plight is the legacy of failed policies past, and of resistance from native leaders to changes in accountability, transparency, education and property rights that would inevitably undermine their own power.
Mr. Harper has inevitably drawn opprobrium for his failure to respond personally to Chief Spence’s manufactured dissent. However, Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan has offered to meet with Chief Spence, which might be considered a significant score for anybody but an egomaniac.
Nevertheless, as the Post’s John Ivison noted on Thursday, the government should have done a better job of explaining that it has hardly been neglecting the aboriginal file. Merely to point out how many tens of millions have been shovelled into Attawapiskat since Mr. Harper came to power may suggest that money is neither the problem nor the answer, and seems intended to highlight inept local management, but more selling sizzle is needed in an age when the anti-development movement has proved so skillful at media and political manipulation.
It is also critical to temper aboriginal expectations. Consultation is essential, but the idea that First Nations can be “full partners” in resource development in the immediate future is patronizing nonsense for the simple reason that they lack what wonks like to call “capacity.” Similarly patronizing is the claim that native people may be able to bring some unique, spiritual input to environmental issues that are in fact matters of science and technology. Education is the answer to both problems, but the AFN walked out on negotiations over a new First Nations Education Act last October.
Unfortunately, there remain too many lawyers, consultants and academics in the “Aboriginal Industry” with a vested interest in what amounts — under the guise of preserving culture — to keeping natives in a kind of run-down Hunter Gatherer club. This industry claims that land-claims settlements and self-government are the cure, when in fact they are more like the main problem. But they will not simply go away.
The one power that frustrated aboriginals do have is to stop development, at the extreme with violence. That power is being eagerly cultivated by radical environmental NGOs of the type on which Prime Minister Harper and Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver drew a bead early in 2012.
Chief Atleo, when issuing his “urgent invitation,” noted that the First Nations were ready to do the “hard work” needed to achieve a better future. But the main task is how to bring real work to the reserves, or ease passage away from them. Any “dialogue” that doesn’t address those issues is going nowhere, as many may secretly wish.
Trending on Twitter is hardly a substitute for getting down to genuinely “hard work.” Meanwhile, if you want to see what ENGO anti-development Utopia looks like, go to any remote native reserve. Then imagine all transfers being withdrawn because there is no economy to pay for them.
Vote for this story Well Written (33) Not Well Written (0)
Photo Caption: SEAN KILPATRICK / THE CANADIAN PRESS Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence, centre, is helped back to her teepee after meeting supporters in Ottawa Thursday, the 24th day of her hunger strike. (Whatever diet she is on is not working!)
National Post - 4 Jan 2013
Chief gives Ottawa 72 hours 23
Misguided hunger strike is manufacturing dissent
PETER FOSTER Nobody would deny the desperate conditions on many native reserves. Most Canadians are genuinely concerned and frustrated at how little improvement has been brought by the billions spent. However, to imagine that problems of poverty, ill health and poor education are best addressed — let alone solved — by histrionic threats, social-mediated mob scenes or blocked roads or rail lines is dangerous delusion.
Chief Theresa Spence, who was previously best known for declaring states of emergency — arguably rooted in her own mismanagement — at her Attawapiskat reserve, is suddenly being treated as some combination of Martin Luther King and Aung San Suu Kyi. Celebrity moths, bleeding hearts and clamberers up the greasy political pole have sought to invest her “hunger strike,” which is now into its fourth week, with noble purpose.
In fact, her initial threat to starve herself to death failing a meeting with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Governor General David Johnston suggested either a bizarre degree of narcissism, or revealed her as a witless puppet. Perhaps both.
Nevertheless, Chief Spence has obviously proved an embarrassment to mainstream native leadership, as has the recently unleashed Idle No More movement, with its dancing, drumming and transport blockades. On Thursday morning, Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo — in what appeared to be an attempt to seize back the “initiative” from Ms. Spence and the Idlers No More — revealed that he had sent an “urgent invitation” to the Prime Minister and the GG to meet with him on Jan. 24, the anniversary of last year’s Crown-First Nations gathering.
Although an urgent invitation obviously comes somewhere down the DEFCON scale from a hunger-strike-backed ultimatum, it is uncertain why the Prime Minister would want to commemorate a meeting that was so obviously a failure.
As for Idle No More, the title is profoundly ironic. One of the main problems for native people is the idleness that comes with living on remote reserves such as Attawapiskat in Northern Ontario. However, the Idle No More movement is not aimed at attracting more jobs. In fact, it opposes the very legal changes — contained in Bill C-45 — that would facilitate development, such as making the leasing of reserve land easier, and loosening draconian environmental regulation (a process started last year with Bill C-38). Thus the movement might more appropriately be named “Idle Some More.”
Chief Spence’s handlers have recently had her invoking the fact that “precious diamonds from my land grace the fingers and necklaces of Hollywood celebrities.” Presumably, her scriptwriters were aiming at dramatic contrast (and perhaps angling for a visit from James Cameron), but in fact development of such resources represents the only route out of dependence (and Attawapiskat has benefitted from the diamond developments to which Chief Spence referred).
The roots of aboriginal plight are not lack of goodwill on the part of Canadians, or even of political will on the part of the federal government. That plight is the legacy of failed policies past, and of resistance from native leaders to changes in accountability, transparency, education and property rights that would inevitably undermine their own power.
Mr. Harper has inevitably drawn opprobrium for his failure to respond personally to Chief Spence’s manufactured dissent. However, Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan has offered to meet with Chief Spence, which might be considered a significant score for anybody but an egomaniac.
Nevertheless, as the Post’s John Ivison noted on Thursday, the government should have done a better job of explaining that it has hardly been neglecting the aboriginal file. Merely to point out how many tens of millions have been shovelled into Attawapiskat since Mr. Harper came to power may suggest that money is neither the problem nor the answer, and seems intended to highlight inept local management, but more selling sizzle is needed in an age when the anti-development movement has proved so skillful at media and political manipulation.
It is also critical to temper aboriginal expectations. Consultation is essential, but the idea that First Nations can be “full partners” in resource development in the immediate future is patronizing nonsense for the simple reason that they lack what wonks like to call “capacity.” Similarly patronizing is the claim that native people may be able to bring some unique, spiritual input to environmental issues that are in fact matters of science and technology. Education is the answer to both problems, but the AFN walked out on negotiations over a new First Nations Education Act last October.
Unfortunately, there remain too many lawyers, consultants and academics in the “Aboriginal Industry” with a vested interest in what amounts — under the guise of preserving culture — to keeping natives in a kind of run-down Hunter Gatherer club. This industry claims that land-claims settlements and self-government are the cure, when in fact they are more like the main problem. But they will not simply go away.
The one power that frustrated aboriginals do have is to stop development, at the extreme with violence. That power is being eagerly cultivated by radical environmental NGOs of the type on which Prime Minister Harper and Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver drew a bead early in 2012.
Chief Atleo, when issuing his “urgent invitation,” noted that the First Nations were ready to do the “hard work” needed to achieve a better future. But the main task is how to bring real work to the reserves, or ease passage away from them. Any “dialogue” that doesn’t address those issues is going nowhere, as many may secretly wish.
Trending on Twitter is hardly a substitute for getting down to genuinely “hard work.” Meanwhile, if you want to see what ENGO anti-development Utopia looks like, go to any remote native reserve. Then imagine all transfers being withdrawn because there is no economy to pay for them.
Vote for this story Well Written (33) Not Well Written (0)
Photo Caption: SEAN KILPATRICK / THE CANADIAN PRESS Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence, centre, is helped back to her teepee after meeting supporters in Ottawa Thursday, the 24th day of her hunger strike. (Whatever diet she is on is not working!)
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
That's because they've joined forces as a group and live/commute together to make it possible with the minimum wage job.Danjanou said:
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