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Canada-US Trade Relations

Maybe the net effect might be an increase in Canadian defense spending in exchange for the tariff to go away.The US oil production is up to 10m a day and I hope will spur more,to lessen dependence on the middle east which is a national security issue.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/us-oil-production-tops-10-million-barrels-a-day-for-first-time-since-1970.html
 
tomahawk6 said:
Maybe the net effect might be an increase in Canadian defense spending in exchange for the tariff to go away.The US oil production is up to 10m a day and I hope will spur more,to lessen dependence on the middle east which is a national security issue.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/31/us-oil-production-tops-10-million-barrels-a-day-for-first-time-since-1970.html
France is reaching the 2 percent of GDP on defense spending,  Macron has a good relationship with Trump,  France got hit with the same tariffs. So I doubt it.
 
Brad Sallows said:
Too many people are looking too deeply for a meaningful explanation.  I doubt there is one.  Trump is using foreign affairs to play domestic politics.  The tariffs sound well to some of his supporters, and the narrow benefits accrue to some of his supporters*.  I doubt he has bothered to quantify whether he has, purely among his potential supporters, made more people happy than angry.

There is one way in which I can conceive extending the explanation/excuse: Trump demonstrates that he is the person whose "offer" in negotiations amounts to not setting fire to the room everyone is standing in.  Doing this on one chosen issue might be enough to scare various parties into offering more concessions on all sorts of current and forthcoming trade negotiations.  Essentially, it is a ransom demand.

(*To recapitulate what I suppose nearly everyone who reads here knows/believes: with trade liberalization issues, net gains almost always heavily outweigh net losses and gains are widespread while losses are focused.  The losers are affected very profoundly - a complete loss of employment and any prospect for employment in a one-industry region is not meaningfully offset by a few dollars' reduction in the monthly cost of a generic basket-of-goods.  Trump at the least pretends to have those people's interests at heart; Trump's opponents basically insult them and tell them their way of life is dead and they should move on.)

Bingo!

:cheers:
 
Well the world has tolerated the same political behaviour from Russia, China and North Korea to name a few, now they are upset that the US is playing from the same deck?
 
Colin P said:
Well the world has tolerated the same political behaviour from Russia, China and North Korea to name a few, now they are upset that the US is playing from the same deck?

Not saying it isn't effective, but if "just like Putin, Un and Jinping" is how you are going to do things, don't be surprised when you slide towards fractured, globally underappreciated hegemony.

The descent from the previous (arguable) high(er) ground of Statesmanship is easy, getting back up to it will be much harder.

:2c:

Regards
G2G
 
Colin P said:
Well the world has tolerated the same political behaviour from Russia, China and North Korea to name a few, now they are upset that the US is playing from the same deck?
if America wants be doing the same nonsense as Russia, north Korea and China,  I wouldn't be surprised if  American influence in the world,  the west especially,  quickly starts to wain.

Trade is one of the things that bind nations together,  expand and keep influence,  and if America wants to start to abandon the field to China and Europe,  they will suffer the consequences that comes with those moves.
 
Using Veterans as a tool:

1 Feb 18: "Why are we still fighting certain veterans groups in court? Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now," Trudeau said, answering a question from a veteran, who said he lost his leg to an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan, during a town hall meeting on Thursday evening in Edmonton.

3 Jun 18: "Canadians have served alongside Americans in two world wars and in Korea. From the beaches of Normandy to the mountains of Afghanistan, we have fought and died together."
 
Altair said:
Trade is one of the things that bind nations together,  expand and keep influence,  and if America wants to start to abandon the field to China and Europe,  they will suffer the consequences that comes with those moves.

The US tried to ignore events in 1914-1917 and in the early '40s. We know how that turned out.
 
He's just doing what he said in his book:

The Art of the Deal

The book also contains an 11-step formula for business success, inspired by Norman Vincent Peale's The Power of Positive Thinking. Trump's steps are:
1.Think big
2.Protect the downside and the upside will take care of itself
3.Maximize your options
4.Know your market
5.Use your leverage
6.Enhance your location
7.Get the word out
8.Fight back
9.Deliver the goods
10.Contain the costs
11.Have fun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump:_The_Art_of_the_Deal
 
tomahawk6 said:
Its about NAFTA.There you go one sentence.
No it is not.  He hit Europe in the same action. Europe has nothing to do with NAFTA; and this action has nothing to do with NAFTA.  Though, it will have consequences for NAFTA as Canada and Mexico see that Trump is not really interested in making it work.
 
MCG said:
No it is not.  He hit Europe in the same action. Europe has nothing to do with NAFTA; and this action has nothing to do with NAFTA.  Though, it will have consequences for NAFTA as Canada and Mexico see that Trump is not really interested in making it work.


Or is it the other way around? 

In all seriousness, what do pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions, etc. have to do with Trade negotiations?  Canada has thrown those all on the table.  It would appear to me that it is Canada that is not taking this as serious as they should; and should not be trying to social engineer other nations, let alone our own. 

The failure of NAFTA does have consequences beyond North America and Mexico.
 
daftandbarmy said:
He's just doing what he said in his book:

Been saying this all along.  He makes an outrageous statement/demand.  Everyone is flabbergasted.  He comes in with an outrageously high bid/demand, and others are thrown off their feet with their expectations.  They haggle.  In the end, he lands up lowering his demand, but still lands up getting more than he expected, and everyone walks away happy with their deal.....even if in reality they were duped. 

If you thought those Used Car Salesman jokes were not real, then think again.... ;D
 
George Wallace said:
Or is it the other way around? 

In all seriousness, what do pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions, etc. have to do with Trade negotiations?  Canada has thrown those all on the table.  It would appear to me that it is Canada that is not taking this as serious as they should; and should not be trying to social engineer other nations, let alone our own. 

The failure of NAFTA does have consequences beyond North America and Mexico.
The current sticking point is a 5 year sunset clause being in the deal, nothing about pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions has been mentioned as holding up any deal.

So I don't believe that's it.
 
Altair:
The current sticking point is a 5 year sunset clause being in the deal, nothing about pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions has been mentioned as holding up any deal.

So I don't believe that's it.

According to MSM/Liberal talking points.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
Not that I am defending Trump, but in some circles I am reading/hearing that China uses Canada to flow steel (and aluminum, i guess), by selling to Canadian companies who do minimal work with it and then re-export to the US.

What I am finding difficult is discovering if this is actually true, or just opinion.

Notwithstanding PPCLI Guys stats.

I'm sitting in the middle of the hub for tool & die and moldmaking in North America.
I had a couple of hundred shops, almost all inspected, in my area of operations working for the Ministry.
I have lots of friends that own these shops. I know many of their operations. I even know of a government project that had to replace two million bucks worth of chinese stainless, because it started rusting.

I know, for a fact, that hundreds of tons of chinese steel goes through here to the states. Raw, partially finished and finished.

I have a friend who owns a mould-try factory in China. Most molds coming from China go through his factory before export. They transship through Canada to the States. Almost every company here has sister operations in the States where molds and material are shipped back and forth over our border here. Which is one reason even GOP shop owners are screaming at Trump. They know chinese steel is flowing in cheaply and they don't want to lose that edge.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Altair:
According to MSM/Liberal talking points.
Which is all we have, so unless you have anything saying something different...
 
Altair said:
The current sticking point is a 5 year sunset clause being in the deal, nothing about pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions has been mentioned as holding up any deal.

So I don't believe that's it.

It isn't.  Trudeau can be blamed for a lot of things but Trump's personality and his belief that the world should work on an outdated mercantile economic model isn't one of them.

Some people who don't like Trudeau will try to pin everything including the volcano in Hawaii on him.

This is all about his base.  NAFTA plays into this but it has little or nothing to do with feel good progressive declarations that really mean nothing in the end.
 
Altair said:
Which is all we have, so unless you have anything saying something different...

No, I don't as I not at the table and neither is the MSM which is fed Liberal talking points which they disseminate.
 
George Wallace said:
Or is it the other way around? 

In all seriousness, what do pay equality, gender rights, Indigenous rights, cultural exceptions, etc. have to do with Trade negotiations?  Canada has thrown those all on the table.  It would appear to me that it is Canada that is not taking this as serious as they should; and should not be trying to social engineer other nations, let alone our own. 

The failure of NAFTA does have consequences beyond North America and Mexico.
What is your point? Are you saying that you think aluminum and steel tariffs against the EU are about NAFTA? Are you off on a tangent? You quoted my post about the tariffs not being about NAFTA, but I can’t figure out where you are trying to go with your thoughts.
 
Rifleman62 said:
No, I don't as I not at the table and neither is the MSM which is fed Liberal talking points which they disseminate.
So I'll take it with a grain of salt, but at the end of the day, it's the information that is available, so that's what I will go with.

That said, the Americans have been pushing for a sunset clause before now, so it's not inconceivable that the issue holding up NAFTA talks.

To date, I haven't heard anything about a progressive agenda by Canada holding up any NAFTA negotiations.
 
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