• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Canada has better kit

  • Thread starter Spc_Cameron
  • Start date
S

Spc_Cameron

Guest
yep... believe it or not.. i can show you pictures of what I was issued versus what I went to war with

i spent no less than 1200.00 US in kit before I deployed..
for you a leatherman is standard kit for us its a luxury item..
your LBV's are better.. your uniform is better.. what the hell is going on???
i was issued an IBA ( body armour ) half of which I can';t wear cus it gets in the way

add to that vietnam issue ammo pouches... screw it bought a rack fro Tactical tailor
got knee pads that were meant for a skateboarder
my kevlar is so damn heavy, an i used the steel pots back in 92 so no comments from the peanut gallery, its a wonder i can keep my head up..
DCU's?.. what ever deployed with 2 pair... both ruined after 6 weeks.. no laundry

wore bdus for the majority of the time over there

nice to see at least canada has its soldiers best intrest at heart when it comes to personal gear
 
Yep, our personal gear is pretty good, though in limited supply.

Now, the larger items, like helicopters and such, are where the US gains a whole lot of ground.
 
Yeah and the government is giving peace keepers in Sudan 250,000 dollars worth of helmets and vests to them.  We don't have enough for ourselves.  But i guess we should be happy that they are not sending any troops since we don't have any to go.  Soon the only overseas mission of any size will be in Afghanistan. Bosnia is will be down to 80 personnel soon. 

Now we just need to hear from the government of the new search and rescue planes and maybe i can wish for some new c-130 j's.
 
Spc Cameron: I have observed the same thing here in Afgh. Our Canadian personal equipment appears to be superior to what US forces are generally issued. I know that my IBA and my tac vest are much newer and much better than what the US guys around me have (and these are Regular guys not Reserve or Guard) The USMC has adopted our desert camo (with a slight variation of the grey tones). Of course, it took us a very long time to get where we are. When I joined (and I'm sure it was the same for you) the kit was utter crap. We are light years ahead now, and getting better. Going on all these ops in the last ten years has helped. Cheers.
 
The TACVEST is a POS.

Yanks have camelbacks  - we got three (yes 3) for our Platoon...
The IBA is rated higher ballistically than our Gen III vests.

We have a limited # of weapon lights, and IR Laser Pointer/Illuminators (only for operations)  The US Army has M4 carbines where we have a few C8's, C8A1's, and C8SFW's - the C7A2 is too large to enter/egrees vehicles quickly and do house clearing drills. 

The US Army regs (Infantry) are equipped to a higher state than us - we have better kit than some guard units.  The PRR is step above US indiv comms.

Our uniform is a flamable nigthmare - yeah the camo may be cool but the nylon fabric is a burn victim disaster in waiting.


 
About your note on Camelbaks... are our boys overseas not issued Camelbaks? I know that CBs arn't standard issue US kit...
 
My tactical vest is starting to rip apart after 1 week in the field  :-\
 
AlphaCharlie said:
About your note on Camelbaks... are our boys overseas not issued Camelbaks? I know that CBs arn't standard issue US kit...

Camelbacks are not standard issue.  When we sent our Recce Sqn to Afghan, our RQ ordered Camelbacks through the US to issue to all the guys.  That came from the operational funding that he had for items such as that.  Therefore, the problem of Camelbacks would appear to be a "Unit" problem.

GW
 
KevinB said:
Our uniform is a flamable nigthmare - yeah the camo may be cool but the nylon fabric is a burn victim disaster in waiting.

If I remember correctly, the U.S. uniform -both the new MARPAT ones and the old woodland and three-color desert ones are also a Nylon-Cotton blend.
 
Speaking of the flamable uniforms.   We are finally getting Nomex flight suits, they're a little more comfortable than the wool/cotton blue ones, but as far as fire protection goes, unless you're wearing double layers, even Nomex won't prevent you from getting burned. We can only wear cotton or wool against the skin, you guys love your polyprop stuff, in a fire polyprop and synthetics will melt and stick to the skin. You've really got to ask what your priorities are, comfort and usefulness everyday and the chance that you'll catch on fire, or double layers under Nomex sweating your arse off everyday for the slim chance you'll catch on fire.   Polyprop is too good in the winter and I don't think forced marching with double layers in the summer would be a wise idea.

Just my $0.02

Cheers
 
Spc_Cameron,

I wouldn't say that Canadian kit is hands down better than US.

In certain areas each nation has equipment that is better than the other.

What you've got to realize is that as a Canadian soldier, unless you're going overseas on an op. you probably will have to wait a long time before you see any of the "high-speed" Clothe The Soldier kit.  Some of which is not particularly high-speed at all...ie. Canadian Tac-Vest which lacks modularity and has a limited mag. capacity of 4 magazines.

When were you deployed overseas?  I know now that the US Army has instituted a "Rapid Fielding Initiative" program that's getting stuff like upgraded desert boots, MICH helmets, camelbaks, IBA, Wiley ballistic goggles, gerber multi-tools, etc. to every troop headed over to Iraq or Afghanistan.

When we conducted our AOR hand-over to the 82nd Airborne in late August these guys had issue kit that made us Marines with our M-16A2s, ALICE gear and old school k-pots look like we were in the dark-ages.  These guys all had M4s with ACOGS, M-249s with 100 round soft-ready pouches, thermal sights for their .50 cals and Mk-19s, MICH helmets, kneepads. 

I'll speak from my experience as a US Marine.

As far as the IBA goes, what parts in particular are you having problems with?  The only real problem I had with my IBA was that the velcro on the opening flap would often work loose.  I think that if they added a couple 1" fastex buckles to help secure the vest the system would work better in this regard.  It's a pretty easy fix to do on your own actually using some 1" webbing, a couple nylon tri-glides and a set of Fastex repair buckles.

As far as Load-Bearing Gear...our unit is probably one of the very few that has not obtained the MOLLE system which most of the Marine Corps is using.  Camelbaks are part of the MOLLE package.  We were sent us over with the old ALICE LBVs, medium rucks and "old" kevlar helmets. 

However, our leadership realized that since they didn't have the money at the time to procure decent pers. kit for us they were extremely liberal in what we were allowed to use/wear.  Personal rigs and rucks were pretty much the norm, such as the Tactical Tailor MAV, Blackhawk Chest-rigs, Eagle 3-day assault packs, etc.

What kneepads are you using?  I've used Hatch's in the past and they weren't that great, but currently I'm using a set of Altas which work fairly well.

As far as Kevlars being too heavy?  Yeah, there are lighter helmets out there now, but I've never had a serious problem keeping my head up with the k-pot on.  If you're having alot of problems with the kevlar, I'd suggest you either do the low-cost foam dougnut upgrade, or spend a bit more money and go with the Oregon Aero Ballistic Upgrade.  The Oregon Aero kit will make you feel like you've got a brand-new helmet on.

As for your DCUs...I survived 7 months with only two sets of Marpat Desert uniforms and a set of nomex CVC coveralls.  Alot of our guys that were wearing the tri-color DCU had their uniforms fall apart.  The Marpat uniform seems to be constructed far better than the DCUs.

However I don't understand your "no laundry" comment.  Until we got stationed at Camp Babylon in September, we were hand-washing all our clothes in wash buckets or ammo. cans (25mm ammo can works great!  ;D) You can't tell me that you're angry because a uniform you wore for 6 weeks without laundering fell apart on you?

KevinB, after wearing both the Canadian combat-cloth uniform and the 50/50 nyco twill that the Marine uniforms are constructed from and the god-awful 50/50 nyco ripstop, I'd go with Canadian fabric anyday.  That stuff breathes and dries far better than the US stuff.  As far as flamability, they're both about the same.  The main downside to combat-cloth is the "combat lingerie" factor that you get from a uniform that's a few years old, however our stuff rarely lasts that long without ripping heinously or wearing through and having to be discarded.
 
The TACVEST is a POS.
can't be any owrse than the ALICE system or the MOLLE

Yanks have camelbacks  - we got three (yes 3) for our Platoon...
The IBA is rated higher ballistically than our Gen III vests.

sure camelbacks are standard issue now.. but to tell you the truth are utter crap in Combat OPS...  I've actaully contacted Camel BAcks in regards to thier "ruggedness" ( is that a word?.

Ballistacally?.. I though you guys had the same plates as us... I was refering to the over all vest i... no range of motion going prone is a nightmare... I'd rather have a vest that covered vitals alone, D- boys had some highspeed ones that out Scout snipers adopted. only problem was coverage on the sides around rib and chest area.

We have a limited # of weapon lights, and IR Laser Pointer/Illuminators (only for operations)  The US Army has M4 carbines where we have a few C8's, C8A1's, and C8SFW's - the C7A2 is too large to enter/egrees vehicles quickly and do house clearing drills.

I feel you there.. you're under the impression that all units are equiped the same.. not so.. I quote LTC Russel during a sensing session with EM's " I've never seen so many damn kentucky long rifles in my life, and you SAW gunners how the hell you manage I'll never know "  yep m-16 A4' they may be but not everyone in out unit has an M-4.. Squad leaders only. as far as IR illuminators go... PAQ-4a s waht you get unless your a 240 gunner, squad leader, or SAW gunner.  our weapons were broke down when we deplyed they're even more broke down now that we're back..not due to improper PCI a PCC but just general wear and tear. according to our TO&E all 240 gunner are to be equipped with a M-9 Barretta.. not so we have one per company. 

The US Army regs (Infantry) are equipped to a higher state than us - we have better kit than some guard units.  The PRR is step above US indiv comms.

well Light Units might fair better than we do, as for Gaurd.. allot of Gaurd and Reserve units are better equipped than us trust me I've seen it, a 203 gunner with an IR range finder for his 203?... that was high speeed and the only one I've ever seen does away with the leaf and Quadra site. MICH helmets with 3 point chin harness.. had to buy my own chin harness ( 50.00 plus shipping to APO address. )

Our uniform is a flamable nigthmare - yeah the camo may be cool but the nylon fabric is a burn victim disaster in waiting.

wasn't aware of the material that your CANPATS were made of... I assumed that they were the same material as our DCUS... ( after thought wonder what material the new ACU's are going to be. )

guess Im just saying .. don't  think all Units are the same or have the same budget.... in MECH units most of our budget goes to Vehicle s. individual equipment is second.




 
Hi Matt,

was going to quote your post but it would have been a lil to much text so I'll address some of you're questions and points.

you asked when I was overseas.
left Fort hood on April 3rd 2003 returned march 10th 2004. as we were leaving we saw all these guys with new Dec's mostly 2ID Stryker Brigade.
1st ID replaced us... for a MECH DIV they were still better equipped than us.. M-4 CQC kits on their M249 ( everytime I saw the LTC I asked him about Class 9 parts for conversion...still do to this day... he's gone from answering my question to rolling his eyes saluting with a goodmorning SPC.

IBA and velcro.. yep had the same problem most of us cannibalized old camel backs from supply for the fastex and hadji rigged buckles.w/ 550 chord ( thats Parachute chord for our Canadian friends ). wonder how the ACU's will fair with velcro pockets.

Kneepads.. ?... same ones you guys have... most have traded theirs in for the lighter version that you mentioned. ( just an after thought... most consider kneepads to be a wussy piece of kit... not for these 34 year old knees. )


However I don't understand your "no laundry" comment.  Until we got stationed at Camp Babylon in September, we were hand-washing all our clothes in wash buckets or ammo. cans (25mm ammo can works great!  Grin) You can't tell me that you're angry because a uniform you wore for 6 weeks without laundering fell apart on you?

y'all had laundry soap?... lol... I was lucky to get a bar of soap... sorry had to get that in there.. you know the whole when I was your age all we had was one pair of boots thing

anyway...

sorta off topic... but I just thought I would mention this.

next week we have a kit layout.. we were ordered... but the LTC  that under no circumstances were we to DX , buy, fix, beg borrow steal kit for this layout... if it was f'ed up lay it out....apparently the CG is coming through and the LTC wants him to see just how jacked up our kit is. ( love this guy )




 
Matt Fisher: since you are on this thread, here is a totally unrelated question for you as a Marine.

In 1997-98, I attended USMC Command and Staff College at Quantico. One thing that struck me was what I perceived to be a very high level of pride and esprit amongst the young enlisted Marines at Quantico. They seemed to be very proud to be Marines, and were always well turned out. I could not imagine a Marine appearing in public in the fat, sloppy, unkempt look that I see in some of my fellow Canadians in uniform.

In your opinion, having experienced both systems, how does the Corps instill this pride and bearing? How is it kept up after MCRD is over? At one time the Canadian Army was known for its very high standards of dress and deportment but I am not certain that this is universally the case anymore. I would be very interested to hear what you think. Cheers.
 
My take on it.  We used to work hard and play hard.  Now it seems like a 9-5 job, esp for the non combat arms.
 
CFL: Yes, I've heard that a few times before. But, I could counter by saying that we are "operating" alot "harder" than we ever did. I can recall when going to Cyprus was a Big Operational Thing (LOL). The last ten years have put that in the dust, and considering all the obstacles we face, we've managed to cut ourselves a pretty fair reputation as soldiers. So, why isn't that rubbing off more? Or is it just my impression?  Or is the USMC thing just an exterior? Cheers.
 
While not being a Marine I would say that pride is ingrained from the get go and never allowed to erode at any level.  Physical fitness and dress and deportment go hand in hand with that.  I can't remember the last time I did hand to hand combat.  Although I think dress and deportment in the Inf is not so much of a problem do to the diligence of the RSM and QMSI.  The Marine way of life seems to me as to be a sort of culture regardless of what trade you end up doing.  If your a Marine your a Marine first and cook second.  Here (CF) you won't see certain trades do the basic of PT unless they are highly motivated or attached to a field unit.  Part of that from what I here though is that in certain trades PT is not organized and the members are busy with their specific trade (see 9-5 job).  The cmbt arms are different to an extent.  We don't go on mandatory coffee breaks (whether the work is done or not) until the job at hand is done normally.  We expect that we may have to work nights and weekends.  Its part of the job but I have seen some outside of the combat arms complain when they have to stay 5 min past their regular quitting time.  I hope that it is a generalization and that I'm way off but as of yet I haven't seen anything to the contrary.
 
My take on it is that right from birth (BMQ to us) the Marine is taught strictly by his her own. They have a sense of esprit de corps formed from the very beginning. Everyone starts out as a Marine first, tradesman second. I also doubt there is much place for the over the top, let's be careful how we treat mama's boy stuff that our CF is becoming so infamous for. Teamwork is instilled at the basic level that carries them through their career. I think they can spot a career orientated , vice Corp orientated supervisor from a mile away and don't put up with it. If we are to fix what we deem critical in our military, we have to move back to each respective unit being in charge of their own from the day they hit Depot, otherwise we're pissing in the wind. A Regimental family is just that, not growing up as cousin who moves around to different families like a cast off foster child. Just my 00.02.
 
CFL and recceguy:

I think you both may be on to something (although I am waiting to hear from our Marine friend...). Personally (and this is just my own take) I regard Unification as a hideous disaster that did more institutional damage than we can begin to imagine. One of the most brutal and stupid things it did was to teach support people that they were "specialists" first and soldiers second (or...third.. or,welll....whatever).

It is worth remembering the historical perspective of the advent of Unification. The Glassco Report, which led to it, was written at a time in the 1960's when the nuclear threat had raised serious doubts about the actual value of ground troops at all. This misguided line of thinking had already led, among other things, to a disaster in our Army Reserve which was subjected to an attempted conversion to a civil defence force, since the theory of the day held that nuclear war would render mobilization pointless. Instead Reserve soldies were to be trained as psuedo-fire/rescue people, but with utterly inadequate kit (ie: zero IPE) This was the infamous "Snakes and Ladders" period, during which Reservists, many of them still with WWII or Korea experience, quit in droves. It was also, IMHO, the opening salvo in the nasty little war that has raged between the two parts of our Army until very recently.

Concurrent with the nuclear fixation was the obsession with technology and "systems" as the solution to everything. This was, in my opinion, the beginning of a period that has lasted until probably about the last decade or so, in which the human aspects of soldiering were neglected or minimized. The US went down that road but IMHO they have learned a few lessons, especially here in OEF and in OIF. Unification brought with it an approach that service in the military was really just another job, and that the real purpose of military service was to learn a saleable skill of some sort. The result of this fixation was an elevation of the technician above the warrior.

We have lived with this institutional atrocity for well over 30 years now, and I believe that it is only just now, as a result of our recent operational expreiences (as well as those of our Allies) that we may be realizing that the "purple tradesman" is an outdated luxury who can actually be a liability on the battlefield. The US has learned in no uncertain terms that supporters must be able to fight, and that their Army needs more Infantry. In fact, I had a conversation in my office today with two US Air Defense Artillery officers who were complaining about how their units were being disbanded to create more Infantry. This is apparently happening in the Field Arty too.

Now, let me pause to say that I have had the great privelige to command the Administration Company of a mech battalion. And I do mean privelige: I was very proud of almost every one of those support people. Overall, they worked harder and longer than the guys in the rifle coys did, both in garrison and in the field. It sure as hell wasn't Admin Coy knocking off at 1430, and lots of times we didn't take part in sports on Fridays because we had to get the bn ready for a deployment, or an ATI, or whatever. The folks I detatched out to the rifle coys, like the MRTs, the amb teams and the cooks busted their asses, and in most cases they enjoyed a close relationship with their companies. But, again in my opinion, these people were good in spite of the purple CF system, not because of it.

I believe that we must pursue an Army model very similar to that of the USMC: everyone a soldier first, with a total Army orientation instead of bouncing our support folk from one environment to the next. As well, I believe we might want to look very seriously at the issue of how we instill confidence, pride and toughness. Not in a BS way, and not in a stupid way that beats everybody to a snot, but in a way that strenghtens us all. How do we do that? What do you guys think? Cheers.
 
Back
Top