Canada eyeing reservists to bolster force in Afghanistan

[Jarnhamar]

Quote
- the Reserves need more courses, and more operationally-focused courses and conversions. Unfortunately, the divide seems to keep growing - in the Infantry, we get the Milcot instead of the G-Wagen, we don't see programs like Gunfighter or updated Urbans Ops tactics, we never see armoured vehicles and get almost no experience with Helo Ops or similar specialties.  To be operationally relevant, the Reserves need better training - but that will likely mean taking resources from the Regs.

The Reg F barely has the capacity to train itself, let alone deal with any surge produced by successful and agressive recruiting or a requiremnt to train Reservists.

This is exactly what needs to change, in a big way.
With injuries and the HLTA mess  we can't send guys overseas with their infantry course and be content with that.

The Reg F barely has the capacity to train itself which is why reserves wouldn't even dream about getting LAV courses SO we need to qualify more guys on courses.
LAV gunner driver and crew commander might be a little tricky to streamline (how long are those courses?) but others you could probably speed up.  In pet the RG31 drivers and gunners courses was 2 weeks IIRC. Overseas we got a few guys the 'qualification' and it took a day and a half.  The gunner instructors even said it in pet, their not sure why the course takes two weeks you can teach the stuff in a day.  
Comms is another big one -soldiers couldn't even change the channel on their CI, everyone needs to take a comms course and I don't mean the silly 3 class's on workup training where you just watch a signaller private fly through punching in buttons ont he CI then check off your sheet.
Same with drivers.  Drivers are a big thing.  G wagon, RG31, Bison & HL. Need more guys qualified on those if anything for an emergency trip, say from KAF to one of the FOBs

 

[deh]

coy staff were very protective of us"... WHY?

I should preface this by saying FusMR is in my direct chain of command...

I think what FusMR means is that we weren't allowed to be relegated to shit jobs and lack luster training.  Our Coy staff was insistant (as was the General) that we we're part of the team, not just another Gate Guard platoon and were treated as such.  We did everything they did that our vehicles allowed us to do (LAV vice LSVW).  For the live fire combat team attacks during the night and day they even lent us lav's with crews. I can count on one hand the number of times i heard "istimilic". 

Big thanks go out to the R22eR for the foresight to realise that with 7 months of training the reserves can be more useful than D&S only. 

 

[orange.paint]

FMR...

I know a few Maj & Capt types in the ECN for 3/07 & did not hear about any problem but I'm a little concerned about the comment "coy staff were very protective of us"... WHY?

was there a problem for them to go into protective mode?

If you read this thread, pert much everyone is in favor of the proclaimed boosting of reserve contribution to overseas missions - lord knows it's already happened.

Ft Bliss    done
CMTC     ____
Kandahar____

Every time we ever had reservist attached to us we had the "warning" parade prior to their arrival.Warning some would be RTFO but that would be sorted out prior to deployement.And not to make the guys feel like outsiders,or harass them.We were told to just leave them alone basically.
However that was Bosnia and were expecting a lot more from reservist than Gate guards from what I have seen from the sidelines.

 

[WLSC]

As Deh said, every time someone out of the coy called us the ''militia pl'', it was the coy staff that reply ''no militia here...but pl but 12 pl, D coy, 3R22eR...''  It easy not to make comment over us but to make us be part of the team is another thing...  We are part of it...no question ask.

 

[geo]

Ah... that kind of Protection.... Capisce!

The old milice/militia is a thing of the past.
Reservists are, as a whole, better educated and just need time to get the trade basics that the Senior Leadership of the Army decided they did not need to learn - unless they were to deploy.  A cost cutting device that has, at times been thrown into the face of the Reserves for no fault of their own....

A reservist who goes thru the 7 months of workup training will have the same skillset as the rest of their battle group /  combat team / task force counterparts.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One of the biggest problems with "checked out" reservists is the 6 month + work up training.  Hard to get that time off work.  Could we speed up the war fighter training to 3 months?
When we were training for Roto13 to Bosnia a battle group going to afghanistan (athena?) stood up AFTER us, did some work up training then left before us.

 

[WLSC]

A reservist who goes thru the 7 months of workup training will have the same skillset as the rest of their battle group /  combat team / task force counterparts.

My point exactly...Thank for the summ-up...    It's matter of attitude...

The big problem is time...  Some reservist just arrive in January.  The gaps is already great for them.  There's allot of ind training to do.  They arrive in the coys lines at the and of the ex and before they achieve that part of the training.

 

[tank recce]

A reservist who goes thru the 7 months of workup training will have the same skillset as the rest of their battle group /  combat team / task force counterparts.

And then there are those of us who are looking at 4 months of training BEFORE that. She Who Must Be Obeyed has (to quote an earlier post) DAG'd me Green. I'm not sure it's completely sunk in just how long an absence we're talking about...

 

[Kiwi99]

When it comes to the intergrattion of res troops in reg untis, there will always initially be the us and them attitude.  I am guilty as anyone on this.  That soon transforms into a different mindset, once the res soldiers have showcased their capabilities.  one of the main things for res force soldiers to understand when attached to a reg force tour is not the attitude of the soldiers they will be deploying with, but those not depoying.  Again, i have been guilty of this in the past.  there is a mentality of why should a reg force soldier who has been doing the job every day of the year, be passed over for someone who does it part time...if that makes sense.  It is again, a syndrome that is brief and soon dissapears.  But I believe that anyone from outside a deploying unit should not expect to walk in and be greeted with open arms.  There will always be the initial uncomfortable period until that member or organisation proves itself.  try as we might, it will never change.  Just like a sports team, who is this guy and what can he do.
With ref to res troops getting all the training, it is attempted, but sometimes it won't happen.  I had a res troop attached to me section 2 weeks before we deployed to A-stan.  It took a while for him to settle in, but he quicly proved himself and became an effective and valued part of the team.
I guess all I am trying to say is, the intergration system is not perfect, but people should notbe disheartened by this.  If a soldier is worth his salt he will fit in.  If he is not, then here will be issues.  Just as there is in the regs with a soldier who continually fails to perform.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

I hope I wont be a total jerk when ill be doing class C eventually...

I hope I wont be a total jerk when ill be doing BMQ since I'm CIC for now until transfered....eventually

I hope I wont be a total jerk ever.

I wish ill go on tour after my bmq-sq-ql3, eventualy...But if offered make sure that il go...

 

[geo]

When it comes to the intergrattion of res troops in reg untis, there will always initially be the us and them attitude.  I am guilty as anyone on this.  That soon transforms into a different mindset, once the res soldiers have showcased their capabilities.  one of the main things for res force soldiers to understand when attached to a reg force tour is not the attitude of the soldiers they will be deploying with, but those not depoying.  Again, i have been guilty of this in the past.  there is a mentality of why should a reg force soldier who has been doing the job every day of the year, be passed over for someone who does it part time...if that makes sense.  It is again, a syndrome that is brief and soon dissapears.  But I believe that anyone from outside a deploying unit should not expect to walk in and be greeted with open arms.  There will always be the initial uncomfortable period until that member or organisation proves itself.  try as we might, it will never change.  Just like a sports team, who is this guy and what can he do.
With ref to res troops getting all the training, it is attempted, but sometimes it won't happen.  I had a res troop attached to me section 2 weeks before we deployed to A-stan.  It took a while for him to settle in, but he quicly proved himself and became an effective and valued part of the team.
I guess all I am trying to say is, the intergration system is not perfect, but people should notbe disheartened by this.  If a soldier is worth his salt he will fit in.  If he is not, then here will be issues.  Just as there is in the regs with a soldier who continually fails to perform.

The attitude will apply to ANYONE who is posted in from outside.... regardless of if he is reg OR res.  If they parachute an indiv, sect, Troop or Sqn in to fill defficiencies, there will be Us & them.... not exclusive to Res

 

[Kiwi99]

Just stating HOW it is these days from a ref force inf perspective.  Makes it quite clear that this attitude is applied to anyone, regardless of where they come from.

 

[Sig_Des]

It's not just the units.  It's the ASUs who won't give a Reservist shots or a dental DAG until they have a tasking message in thier hot little hands.  It's the NDIS who won't issue a premanenet I card to a Reservist until he's served two full years (unless he's an officer) or has a tasking message.  It's the whole HR world which insists on duplicating not just personnel information but personnel information systems "because Monitor MASS is better than PeopleSoft is better than SAP etc.etc." but no matter what those "official" systems say, you still have to DAG GREEN in CFTPO.  : No wonder we can't find out who's where, who's deployable, who's not and just sort ourselves the f**k out!

+100 on that.

I'm in the process of Dagging up now (thank God I'm almost done) for a TAV. The problem with TAVs is that dates and timings are prone to change, and everything is short-notice.

Right now, I'm headed over in less than a month...that includes a week in WW, and we still don't have messages.

We actually didn't have much of a problem getting the inoculations. PMed didn't give us any problems. Supply was a bit of a hurt in the rear, but our WO managed to have them order everything for us, though they'll be wanting messages when they give us the kit.

Medicals...can be a whole other problem. We've got guys on class B not over 180 days, and the Class C messages haven't come out. NDMC, CF H Svcs, whatever it's called now has ALWAYS been a HUGE pain about giving medicals to Reservists. This includes promotion medicals for class A reservists, Medicals to update cats when people apply to Class B's, or in our case, predeployment.

I think a MAJOR part of this is the civilian staff being a little self-righteous about offering health care. They sit there, don't return messages, drink their tims, and when you show up saying, "Hey, I leave in under 30 days, you should have a copy of my contract from when I was last here" and they say, it's not my job, you should have brought that, and it's not my responsibility.

My case, ballistic inserts. takes about 5-10 days to get em. If I don't get my class C message til 2 weeks before I leave, and you won't order my inserts until I show you that message....

I understand administration, and trying to avoid Reservists getting freebies. But, you have to meet people halfway here. We are at war.

 

[KevinB]

The attitude will apply to ANYONE who is posted in from outside.... regardless of if he is reg OR res.  If they parachute an indiv, sect, Troop or Sqn in to fill defficiencies, there will be Us & them.... not exclusive to Res

GEO -- not so much -- the advantage that reg force guys have - if that they will be a KNOWN commodity to some one (the joys of a small army)
  The reservist drops in and no-one knows him from a hole in the ground (usually).

 

[geo]

Is true, or was true a short while ago but.... with Reg & Res working a lot closer these days, it should become less of an issue.  On a qual level, all leadership courses are common Reg/Res nowdays, the various corps are reviewing the Res TQs to close the gap

Air, Navy, Comms, reserves all take the same courses as their Reg counterparts. CME decided 18-24 mths ago that all Engineer qualifications would be made common.  DP1 TQ was split in two - conducted over two summers.  I would presume that the Infantry, Armoured & Artillery will follow in due course.

 

[orange.paint]

Air, Navy, Comms, reserves all take the same courses as their Reg counterparts. CME decided 18-24 mths ago that all Engineer qualifications would be made common.  DP1 TQ was split in two - conducted over two summers.  I would presume that the Infantry, Armoured & Artillery will follow in due course.

Equipment issue.Also our regimental battle school's are now closed.The only battle school is in Gagetown Newbrunswick.This takes away from "area" training.

At the school right now we currently shoot for plus 400(IIRC) graduates a year.We are busy.Infact usually as one course is on it's last week of course another is being marched in.Having done away with the regimental school's we now train all regular force amrd crewman in one area.Having a reserve course on coyotes in my opinion would be near to impossible.Getting enough running coyotes for back to back courses proves enough of a issue,due to other Armd career courses running at the same time (ARCC, AOCC,Patrol commander etc).

Armd recce crewman are not compatible with it's regular force counter part.VERY few have ever deployed as a augmenter to a recce sqn.I only recall one,and she was ex regular force.
It's something that needs to finally be addressed.Battle Jeeps work fine for tactics and area concentration training,however they cannot form a pool for the RCD,12RBC,Strat's to draw from.

How do fix it?Regiments have to start training the reserves on PCF's.I was in Petawawa for 5 years and recall 1 coyote drivers course that was reserve,and a surv course with a few attending.None of these PCF's were ever proably used.

The rest of the combat arm's have it figured out,yet we are lacking big time.

 

[geo]

Never having driven LAV/Coyote/Bison/Cougar/Grizzly.... are the 6 wheeled generation of Mowags driven / maintained in more or less the same way? (still see lots of turretless hulls out in the yards outside of 202 Wkshop)... or is the learning curve inbetween too steep for it to be of benefit to the corps? & the hulls/mechanicals themselves in too bad a shape?

 

[AJC]

Ex-RCAC 011 hit the issue on the nose as I see it. Equipment has to be on the armoury floor. When reserve armd units had Cougar on the floor, we had the same veh and equipment as the units we were augmenting. This is relevent for the other arms as well. We have to have the same basic equipment. Simlply running a crse is fine, but without the opportunity for continuation / refresher trg, skill fade will negate any benefit. The amount of equipment? We got along pretty well with a troop of Cougar (4). Having that sub-sub-unit also lends alot to retention and recruiting, the cool factor is somewhat important. I remember a 1st Sgt from 303 Armd, Wash National Guard complaining that he had to turn in his Abrams A1's and exchange for A2's. They seemed to be able to figure them out.
The differences at higher rank levels tend to revolve around equipment issues as well, whether as operators or in support organizations. A Tp WO does the same type of duties in a Cougar as one in a Leopard, but the difference in equipment and the increased maint requirements, make the job different. Level the playing field and the product that arrives as an augmentee should be better at all rank levels.
We don't even have the same POL Trucks anymore.

 

[geo]

........ Sooo if the powers that be aren't prepared to equip the Reserve RECCE units with some LAV/coyote kinda vehicle; what do you propose? reroling all of them to Infantryish assault troops or do another Elgin and make pioneers / sapers outa you all?

Don't get me wrong, I am not out to bash the Armd - I am just wondering what are the alternatives?

 

[orange.paint]

........ Sooo if the powers that be aren't prepared to equip the Reserve RECCE units with some LAV/coyote kinda vehicle; what do you propose? reroling all of them to Infantryish assault troops or do another Elgin and make pioneers / sapers outa you all?

Don't get me wrong, I am not out to bash the Armd - I am just wondering what are the alternatives?

Dont GEO! Run HIDE!
All joking aside I suggested this quite a while back on the forum.I suggested that we train the reserve ARMD into infantry to have interoperability with the regular force.I do however understand the anger this causes the Armd Res...as they are proud to be who they are.

But unless we are willing to upgrade the armd corp.Regular first with equipment,and supply the reservist a platform to be interchangeable with us.Unless we do that,we will have a Armd reserve that serves not direct purpose to it's Regular force brethren. (Not meant to be a slag..just in reference to being able to directly work on the one piece of kit)

So my suggestions:

Now that Canada realises it needs a armd corp...lets stop raping it of kit and fill the regiments (reg)and actually spend money on our reserve regiments.In infrastructure,and a portion of vehicles to keep up skills and train on.

Re-roll the armd reserve into a different trade,where they can be called upon to complete a PCF.DO I want to see this happen?No.But with General Hillier's call for more infanteers,and the lack of training on our primary kit it makes a little sense to me.Hate to see it happen but that's one idea.

Take more units around bases and re roll them into armd.That way they could train on vehicles on the regular force base.(Just a thought...I know it would cost way too much)

We have to start putting money into our Armd reserve if we want a pool to draw from for future missions.I don't see it happening.