Camp Mirage Superthread

[The Bread Guy]

Does anyone have any insight as to what those demands are?

From the CTV.ca piece

.... The UAE threatened to close the base unless Canada gave additional landing rights to its two commercial airlines, Emirates Airline and Etihad Airways -- including for direct routes to Calgary and Vancouver.

An insider told CTV News that Canada was essentially being used as a pawn in heavy-handed blackmail. Transport Canada and Air Canada opposed the move ....

I'm guessing Air Canada is opposed for competitive reasons, but I wonder why Transport Canada would be opposed?

- edited to add following -

Apparently, this isn't an entirely new story - this from a 15 Mar 10 industry analysis piece....

Last week the United Arab Emirates upped the ante in a battle over market access to Canada for its national airlines, Emirates and Etihad. By introducing the issue of Canada’s military bases into the aviation bilateral argument, the UAE  hardly used a new tactic in this age old and archaic industry. Aviation is so close to national economic interests that it raises all sorts of sensitivities which seem bizarre to outsiders – perhaps because they are exactly that.

Canada and its flag carrier, Air Canada predictably responded with shock and horror, insisting that a restrictive aviation policy was in the national interest. Moreover, it said, admitting these government-owned airlines would be unfair and disastrous for Air Canada. Meanwhile consultants, Intervistas, had produced a report suggesting that Canada was missing out on a potential CAD480 million in economic benefits if Emirates Airline were prevented from expanding. This review examines some of the arguments raised in favour of the status quo, suggesting that the Canadian government is, like King Canute, seeking to hold back the tide of consumer-driven air travel policy. It questions if this approach is in Canada’s – or even Air Canada’s – best interests.

(....)

Transport Canada spokesman Patrick Charette last week affirmed that, "officials continuously monitor the Canada-UAE market to ensure it is not underserved, as this would not be in the commercial interest of either country….The rights under the current Canada-UAE air transport agreement meet the market demands of travellers whose origin or final destination is either Canada or the UAE."

And Air Canada’s pilot union head, Captain Paul Strachan, also adheres to the old aviation trade mantra, maintaining Emirates "has a tactic to break into markets and expand aggressively, but free trade in aviation has to be fair trade. In this instance, it's a lopsided proposal by Emirates." (There is actually nothing in the definition of free trade to require that it be “fair”, if that simply means protecting a weaker competitor against a supplier providing a commercially viable service.)[2]

Transport Canada too says there is no seat shortage (on the end-to-end route), and has resorted to use of the ugly old cornerstone of aviation protectionism, saying that the UAE does not offer “reciprocity” – that is, airline reciprocity, meaning basically that each country’s airlines must have the ability to make equal money on the specific route. Reciprocity does not account for consumers, but is a throwback to the bad old days of regulation, which IATA’s CEO and Director General, Giovanni Bisignani, has been fighting so hard to overcome.

Then of course, Air Canada itself is categorical about the need to protect it from the new world of air travel. In a lengthy diatribe directed at Emirates last week, Air Canada CEO, Calin Rovinescu further elaborated this reactionary theme: “Competition for international traffic flows must exist on a level playing field that provides equal opportunities for all. Any trade agreement – and that is what an air bilateral agreement is – must be fair, balanced and mutually beneficial.” What he meant was mutually beneficial for the airlines – not for consumers.

Mr Rovinescu argued that access restrictions “remain for good reasons.  The bilateral agreement between Canada and the United Arab Emirates is a case in point. Simply put, the market between Canada and the UAE has not developed to the point where more capacity is warranted. Period. Full stop. There are already more airline seats being flown between Dubai and Canada than there are people to fill them. No adjustments to the Canada-UAE bilateral are warranted at this time and in our view it would be short-sighted on the Canadian Government’s part to yield to the massive lobby effort underway by Emirates and the UAE.” ....

 

[PuckChaser]

I never liked being in Mirage anyways, Cyprus was far cooler.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Mirage, except for the food sucked each time there.  All the do's and don'ts for fear of pissing to locals off added to the humidity to add insult to injury.  Cyprus isn't too much farther by 17 either from/to KAF.  The extra travel on the final leg which would be balanced by the cut back of time from Canada as well.  But honestly are we going to be in the sandbox long enough to see a switch and make it worth while?

 

[OldSolduer]

I spent a few days in Mirage and I can tell you this: I would go friggin nuts there. Too many "zombies" who seem to have no purpose other than to collect a pay cheque and the overseas allowance.
Now I would absolutely volunteer to the the Sergeant Major for a Cyprus go.

 

[ModlrMike]

I spent a few days in Mirage and I can tell you this: I would go friggin nuts there. Too many "zombies" who seem to have no purpose other than to collect a pay cheque and the overseas allowance.
Now I would absolutely volunteer to the the Sergeant Major for a Cyprus go.

A couple of close friends of mine who have done that tasking tell me it's too much babysitting. I'd certainly have to give it a long hard thought before I accepted the tasking.

 

[armyvern]

A couple of close friends of mine who have done that tasking tell me it's too much babysitting. I'd certainly have to give it a long hard thought before I accepted the tasking.

Your buds did the TLD tasking?? Or Mirage??

Quite different taskings between the two.

 

[ModlrMike]

They did TLD. Now that I think about it again, I'd do a Cyprus TSE tasking.

 

[CombatDoc]

Mirage, except for the food sucked each time there.  All the do's and don'ts for fear of pissing to locals off added to the humidity to add insult to injury.  Cyprus isn't too much farther by 17 either from/to KAF.  The extra travel on the final leg which would be balanced by the cut back of time from Canada as well.  But honestly are we going to be in the sandbox long enough to see a switch and make it worth while?

In answer to your questions, 1) Looks like a yes and 2) worth while has nothing to do with it, politics has everything to do with it.  Cost efficiency is not going to matter if we are forced to pull stakes and move from CM.

 

[The_Falcon]

Ah, now some of things I heard in the rumourmill over here make more sense.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... according to Postmedia News:

Canadian soldiers and aircrew have only 27 days to pack up their gear and clear out of the secret airbase in the United Arab Emirates that Ottawa established seven years ago to support military operations in Afghanistan.

After two years of on-and-off negotiations, the Emirates on Tuesday suspended a memorandum of understanding with Canada after the Canadian government balked at a demand that the Gulf sheikdom's two national carriers — Dubai-based Emirates Airlines and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways — be granted rights to fly as many as 50 flights a week to Canada.

This would have represented about a seven-fold increase in flights from the UAE to Canada.

Among the range of options being considered by the military, the most likely is to use a NATO airfield in Germany as a major staging area for Canada's C-17 and C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft, according to senior defence sources, while Canadian troops rotating into and out of Afghanistan may catch commercial flights in Cyprus, which some of the soldiers already use as a transit point. Other options include using Turkish airfields.

"There is no panic over this because it was somewhat expected," a senior military source said. "But it is a major inconvenience. We were already set up there and now we need a new process.

"This will not effect us operationally. We can sustain the mission from Europe. However, the alternatives will cost us more money and give us less flexibility" ....

 

[The_Falcon]

No operational effect???  I am sure this going to be big schmozzle for those of us on the last few HLTA blocks. 

 

[4Feathers]

I spent a few days in Mirage and I can tell you this: I would go friggin nuts there. Too many "zombies" who seem to have no purpose other than to collect a pay cheque and the overseas allowance.Now I would absolutely volunteer to the the Sergeant Major for a Cyprus go.

Your lack of knowledge as the "purpose" of CM is quite evident, and quite insulting to the thousands of personnel (your zombies) who have served there with minimal allowances under extreme heat conditions. There is no tax break there, personnel miss their families just as much as anywhere else, and when compared to the Golan, very little difference in conditions, despite the Golan tour getting the tax break. Having done a tour there, as well as Kaf, and Cyprus, I can tell you I have a lot of respect for those who have served in CM. They are certainly not there for the "allowances" as it would not be worth it. I have also served at the TSE in Cyprus during the 1st Gulf War, and would go back there in a flash.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Your lack of knowledge as the "purpose" of CM is quite evident, and quite insulting to the thousands of personnel (your zombies) who have served there with minimal allowances under extreme heat conditions. There is no tax break there, personnel miss their families just as much as anywhere else, and when compared to the Golan, very little difference in conditions, despite the Golan tour getting the tax break. Having done a tour there, as well as Kaf, and Cyprus, I can tell you I have a lot of respect for those who have served in CM. They are certainly not there for the "allowances" as it would not be worth it. I have also served at the TSE in Cyprus during the 1st Gulf War, and would go back there in a flash.

And when I went through there, there was no tax break for us, from Afganistan either. What I do remember is being cooped up there, with nothing to do and nowhere to go. Getting the stink eye from camp staff for taking one of their sacred ice cream bars, all the while watching them come and go on regular bus runs to downtown coming back and parading all their toys, literally, in front of us while we were confined to the base until our plane came around a few days later.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Well, that answers my questions.  27 days.... they will be busy little beavers.  Still, if I get another crack at going back I won't miss giving UAE a miss.  Would be too soon if I darken their doorway again in the next 30 years.

 

[mover1]

Couple of things here.
Firstly being in out of CM and KAF every month for the past couple of years I can tell you the crew at CM will give you the stink eye no matter what you are doing. 
They also will go out of their way to get you what you want whenever the demands are reasonable enough.
Secondly I am sick ad tired of the attitude of those people who have been to AFG who think that just because we are in a different trade element job or base that we should bow down and suffer just because of their  own Afghan experience.
Here is a friggin hammer I will help you pull out the nails so that you can come down off your cross.

CM is closing big whoop.  Now who are you going to bash now the Spangdahlem crews or the Cyprus gangs or where ever we are sent to to help sopport the op.

I am not looking forward to CM closing. Its going to hurt. A LOT!!
Wait and see.

 

[4Feathers]

Couple of things here.
Firstly being in out of CM and KAF every month for the past couple of years I can tell you the crew at CM will give you the stink eye no matter what you are doing. 
They also will go out of their way to get you what you want whenever the demands are reasonable enough.
Secondly I am sick ad tired of the attitude of those people who have been to AFG who think that just because we are in a different trade element job or base that we should bow down and suffer just because of their  own Afghan experience.
Here is a friggin hammer I will help you pull out the nails so that you can come down off your cross.

CM is closing big whoop.  Now who are you going to bash now the Spangdahlem crews or the Cyprus gangs or where ever we are sent to to help sopport the op.

I am not looking forward to CM closing. Its going to hurt. A LOT!!
Wait and see.

+1 Well said.

 

[FoverF]

Hmmm...

I can't say that I approve of the UAE trying to bend us over the barrel.

But I also can't approve of comrpomising military operations, and increasing the costs of an already enormously expensive operation in order to protect the margins of an incompetently run business.

Air Canada is already $11 billion or so in the hole. They benefit from a huge amount of protectionism already, and still can't keep their affairs in order. Should we really bend over backwards at government expense to help their margins?

Screw them, and screw their rude and disrespectful corporate culture.

 

[jollyjacktar]

mover1, I always had good service from the folks at CM.  I can applaud the effort of working in the heat and humidity to get the shit over to TFA that needed to get there.  My bitches were directed at the UAE in particular.  I did not like the climate, the greediness of the merchants, the having to be sooooo frigging careful not to offend anyone local with my great satan behavior and the chickenshit rules that came with it, the shit attitude of the local MP's at the gate coming in and out.  Transit through there was painful and friggin boring, I hated most of it.

I understand and accept that the guys and girls at CM could be a little pissy during a RIP.  I am sure it is a couple of months of bloody hard work, seeing the same damn problems crop up again and again, same dumb questions etc etc etc.  But I for one have no complaints about the folks there, glad I was not one of them.  This Sailor thanks them one and all for the support they gave me during my tours. 

 

[mover1]

I don't care for the locals either. Whenever we get into their airspace the first things they do is make sure we know who is in control.
The Rips don't suck. Its a few hours of hard work by MAMS and the clerks to get people sorted out and ff to where they need to go.  What sucks is the attitudes of the one or ten guys off of each plane load that think the world is owed to them. 154 people on a flight and 5 dickheads with attitudes. They are the ones pissing on the floor in the bathroom of the 17 and spitting their chewing tobacco on the floor.

There is my rant. I am done now.

BTW I hate going it CM.

farewell BE-NO Ops

 

[PuckChaser]

I was personally impressed by the speed and efficiency of the rip process at CM. I half expected it to be just like the 3 DAG "cattle lines" I went through in Valcartier, where they never had the information right.