CAF Specialist Pay [Spec Pay]- All Trades [MERGED]

[NCRCrow]

A question: If a volunteer of CSOR was a receiving spec pay for his trade. Would they still receive it as a member of CSOR.

If CSOR makes the same money as JTF2 assaulter, what makes being at the Farm anymore elite.

I do not think CSOR should be entitled to the same compensation as JTF2. My opinion and my experience.

 

[PMedMoe]

A question: If a volunteer of CSOR was a receiving spec pay for his trade. Would they still receive it as a member of CSOR.

Since spec pay is trade based and not unit based, I would say that yes, they still get it.

 

[Good2Golf]

HFX, as it stands now (confirmed by the publicly avail CBI's quoted earlier in the thread) there is neither a specific environmental allowance, nor a specific special allowance for members of CSOR.  All allowances are established taking into account numerous factors, policies, etc... so it would stand to reason that a CSOR environmental allowance and a CSOR assaulter special allowance, once/if established, would be be developed relative to CSOR's sister unit (i.e. similar in structure, but not the same amount.)

PMedMoe is right about the specialist (MOSID) pay, but also note that as per CBI 205.385(7), there are some cases where certain allowances (SAR Tech, Para, Aircrew, Dive, etc...) are forfeited while receiving JTF 2 environmental allowance (see earlier post link as well).

Cheers
G2G 

 

[NCRCrow]

Thanks for the response. G2G

Now for a Naval Yarn:

It has been mentioned that at some meetings (Fleet Week etc.) that the Naval Boarding party should receive an additional allowance. The whole senior audience groaned in unison.

I just wonder where its going to stop? CSOR, DART, NBP, Scullery, GD?

 

[Good2Golf]

Some folks may groan because they imagine the administrative work it would take to establish, track, maintain, etc... 

Pulling back for the bigger picture, the test would be to determine if NBP meets the same test as the other environmental allowances, i.e. something that is performed by an identifiably large enough group, to a specific standard/qualification.  If it does, then one could suppose that a case could be made for such a qual and subsequent environmental allowance.

I don't know, is NBP training regimented strictly enough, to an established and identified standard, that it is currently a formal qualification (which all the other allowances are based on), or is it something more like 'damage control' training (not sure if I'm using the correct term) that isn't (or is it) based on an environmental qualification?  Knowing how other CF members qualify and train to specific MOSID or environmental standards to be eligible for an environmental allowance, my gut feel is that NBP wouldn't not fully qualify for an allowance.

G2G

 

[HItorMiss]

HFX are you insinuating that the Operators of CSOR do not deserve an extra allowance for the hardships they entail?

In terms of NBP they are not on call 24/7 365 like the Operators of CSOR they are when on ship but that is it. No they don't qualify as the CBI's relate to a special allowance.

As for the Allowance for Operators (Assaulters are JTF2) Its going to be relative to the job specific training they do. Will it be the same amount as an Assaulter I have no idea might be less (likely less as CSOR does not have a domestic CT task). But it is well deserved they along with JTF2 are the only units in the CF that operate at the end of the spectrum that they do. The Operators of CSOR (the ones I know of and am friends with) spend significant time away doing dangerous demanding work in all environments at all hours on a constant basis.

It is because of their enhanced level of training and the constant danger of their work and the significant time away that the CF and the TB have acknowledge the need for an allowance for the Operators of CSOR based on the allowance system for the Assaulters of JTF2.

Now take this all for what it is worth of course, it's just my observations

EDIT: Grammar

 

[NCRCrow]

HFX are you insinuating that the Operators of CSOR do not deserve an extra allowance for the hardships they entail?

Answer: yes

 

[blacktriangle]

They take an extra step, give them the extra pay. Do not the Aussies give higher pay to members of 4RAR (commando) over conventional infantry? and an even higher allowance for SASR?

 

[meni0n]

HFX are you insinuating that the Operators of CSOR do not deserve an extra allowance for the hardships they entail?

Answer: yes

And you base that on what?

 

[George Wallace]

HFX are you insinuating that the Operators of CSOR do not deserve an extra allowance for the hardships they entail?

Answer: yes

I suppose that would equate to Sailors posted to a ship not being entitled to Sea Pay, as they never leave their posting........it goes with them wherever they sail.    >

 

[HItorMiss]

I wish to know your reasoning behind that answer, Why is it you believe they are not entitled to a specialist allowance for the job they do?

 

[NCRCrow]

FOA, PARA Pay?

Whats next for SOA for HUMINT, CP Op etc?

My answer is still no. But that's my opinion.

 

[Armymedic]

Re: extra pay for CSOR operators. I respectfully tell you that you are incorrect in your opinion. They do deserve the extra pay. Everyone from the Treasury Board on down agree they do, how much the remuneration should be is the remaining question.

As for troops like HUMINT, CP operators and Bboarding parties; if troops are in those roles where they require additional and specialized training beyond that of their normal trade, then by all means they deserve to be paid for their additional skills.

 

[George Wallace]

FOA, PARA Pay?

Whats next for SOA for HUMINT, CP Op etc?

My answer is still no. But that's my opinion.

I guess then that you have no real idea of what Spec Pay, Environmental Allowance, and all the other different allowances are all about then.  Guess that precludes you from further discussion.  ?

 

[HItorMiss]

Ahhh well I can sort that confusion out..

upon receipt of the Spec Ops Allowance the Operator/Assaulter no longer gains FOA and Para allowance. To be more accurate it is worked into the SOA.

When it comes to the FOA though they do still accumulate points for when/if they return to a normal field unit.

What you have to take into account is that the members of these two units do not have the normal responsibilities or jobs like regular members of the CF. Are they special yes (super human no) They work hours you and I would detest on a constant basis they work hard, harder then just about any person I have met and their families suffer for it. Does your pager go off at 0300 in the morning and you leave your family for weeks perhaps months without them knowing where you are or what you are doing? All they know (they being the family) is that you are ok.

Not to mention the risk they take just in training the skills they have far exceed that of regular members of the CF (regardless of trade). Sorry HFX if you saw or worked with or were a part of those units you would change your tune I think.

 

[dapaterson]

Perhaps the question is really whether most folks are overpaid - if we have a Reg F that isn't ready to bug out at 0300, that isn't maintaining its skillsets at a high level, are we overpaying them?  I'd argue that if it takes us 6+ months to get a BG ready to deploy, we're not keeping folks at the level they should be at - and their pay should be adjusted downwards in consequence (starting with the "leaders" who've permitted this state of affairs to arise).

 

[HItorMiss]

Sorry DA but you are arguing apples to oranges when you compare Reg F units to CSOR and/or JTF2

Should a Reg F unit be able to bug out at 0300 absolutely and they do (well in Pet they have a few times now) But no Reg unit can or should be bugged out at 0300hr to complete a no fail mission of National intrest in a non permissible environment without detection. That's why we have these units and that is why their skills are so high and why they should receive compensation for it.

 

[Good2Golf]

FOA, PARA Pay?

Whats next for SOA for HUMINT, CP Op etc?

My answer is still no. But that's my opinion.

HFXCrow, if you read the posts previously, or read the CBI references, you would have seen that JTF 2 assaulters cease receiving other environmental allowances (land ops, para, etc...) while they are in receipt of the SOA special allowance.  It would stand to reason that CSOR operators, when the special allowance is approved, would also cease receipt of other environmental allowances as well.

 

[Infanteer]

FOA, PARA Pay?

Whats next for SOA for HUMINT, CP Op etc?

HUMINT, CP Op and Boarding Parties all possess special skills that are employed from time to time in an operational environment.

If anything, they would merit a "Casual Allowance", not a full-on one.  But that would be silly - as that is what the paycheck is for in the first place.  Of course, to stay consistent, this probably means I support axing jump pay, as it is another way to get to work (this benefit is probably something we do simply because we did it in the Second World War).

The allowances for CANSOFCOM, to me at least, appear justified for reasons Bulletmagnet explained.  A boarding party specialist isn't expected to be roused from his bed at 0400 in Halifax to go do a board a vessel.

 

[NCRCrow]

I have my opinion and its that JTF2 shoud be only entitled to SOA.

sorry forum....