Cadet FA/ Medical stuff..........

[MedCorps]

Med Tech,

I was under the impression that the SJA Advanced Program was now EMR  - using Brady Prehospital Emergency Care as the text and format of the course.   

The last time I ran an AFA course it worked like this:  Called DND Special Centre to ask what the standard was and to ask to conduct a course for Cadets.  They tell me there is not a hard standard but design the course around EMR and the subject textbook, and send them the plan for approval. They tell me each province as a EMR standard, but do not get too concerned about it because this is being run as a DND Special Centre AFA course. Sent in the CTP, with a copy of my qualifications to teach and it was approved. AFA was issued as the certificate with a memo indicating what was taught on the course and the students mark. 

Can anyone confirm that I am not too far out to lunch?

Does anyone have a copy of an EMR standards they want to share?   (I know there is more than one set of standards... does Ontario [the probable location for this course] have one?)
Agreed, EMR is a good standard and it fits into the 2-week block.

Does the AFA program I listed above look like the EMR you know?

Cheers,

MC   

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

For GGHG_Cadet, running a course and opening it up to a senior cadet from each GTA corps could work, and have their corp sponsor them to go.................... Just an idea.
Also, there are many resources available locally, like what about having guest lecturers in from CFMS [25 (Toronto) Field Ambulance], or local Paramedics. I know of one CIC officer in north Toronto who is a medic with Toronto EMS. Although the city guys don't know much about medical care in the bush. I started training as a Paramedic almost 10 years ago, and have been a Flight Paramedic, working Air Ambulance for almost 7 years. Except for a few years in Toronto, on the helicopter there, most of my time has been working in Northern Ontario and am currently based in Thunder Bay. If 748 would be interested, next im in the area I could come in and speak for a bit if you wnated. Lots of cool photos from over the years.
Just trying to help.

Coincidently,  this year we've been lucky enough to have a regular force flight medic start volunteering with the corps. He has been a great help all around, and is working on some form of first aid course for the corps I believe.

 

[medaid]

Med Tech,

I was under the impression that the SJA Advanced Program was now EMR  - using Brady Prehospital Emergency Care as the text and format of the course. 

The last time I ran an AFA course it worked like this:  Called DND Special Centre to ask what the standard was and to ask to conduct a course for Cadets.  They tell me there is not a hard standard but design the course around EMR and the subject textbook, and send them the plan for approval. They tell me each province as a EMR standard, but do not get too concerned about it because this is being run as a DND Special Centre AFA course. Sent in the CTP, with a copy of my qualifications to teach and it was approved. AFA was issued as the certificate with a memo indicating what was taught on the course and the students mark. 

Can anyone confirm that I am not too far out to lunch?

Does anyone have a copy of an EMR standards they want to share?  (I know there is more than one set of standards... does Ontario [the probable location for this course] have one?)
Agreed, EMR is a good standard and it fits into the 2-week block.

Does the AFA program I listed above look like the EMR you know?

Cheers,

MC 

MC,

I'll have to reread the AFA PO/EOs you listed. The EMR difference by province is in protocol only. The basic skills are all the same with exceptions to protocols such as pain management, immobilization, transport and air way management. I dont know if AFA is EMR now, but the last time I checked here in BC it's not recognized, and the only one I know that's recognized so far is the one produced by the Red Cross and the ones locally taught by the JI. Now they ALL meet the occupation competency required for the EMR so *shrug*...

 

[MedCorps]

Hmmm... I did not know that Red Cross is in the EMR game.  I would be interesting in a copy of the Red Cross EMR package if anyone has one they want to share.

I made a call...  It turns out that Advanced First Aid is now called Medical First Responder (MFR) by SJA.  It may (or may not) meet the EMR requirements of any one given Canadian province.  Provincial Councils are to ensure that MFR training currcula meets the requirement of the provincial EMR standards  where they exist for that province. The MFR standard is not automatically transferable across provincial boundries.

The exception is in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick where MFR is the EMR standard and the managing authority is the St John Ambulance Maritime School of Paramedicine (NS) and the St John Ambulance Atlantic Paramedicine Academy (NB).  (Wow... SJA got into the full time educational college game).

I don’t think EMR exists as a formal standard in Ontario (It probably should).  Anyone know for sure? 

Cheers,

MC

 

[medicineman]

I'm prety sure EMR exists as such in Ontario, just not 100%.  As for the Red Cross, they're the one's that teach the DND/CF Firefighters their EMR courses (I was one of the IT's trained in the Maritimes to help with the different departments - being that I'm a Serving Brother in St John Ambulance left me a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, but that's a different story).  They came in under the radar and scored the contract, despite SJ having a pile of MFR instructors with the DND Special Centre.

MM

 

[Springroll]

Springroll - You got me thinking - one of the issues we have at the camps is boredom on the weekends. We could structure some of the "Optional" content into a Saturday or Sunday afternoon training - Optional to the course - which could act as a "sampler" for younger Cadets already engaged in CL for example. It would also act as "Marketing" for the Medic Course, attracting future candidates...
Ideas?

I know with my son(13 yr old), when they were out in the field a couple months ago, all the cadets had a great time running field FA scenarios. A possible idea would be to take those very basic scenarios (found a guy on the ground with a bone sticking out of his arm), tweaking them a bit, and making them more difficult to execute. Using the Saturday forenoon to teach some more advanced techniques and problem solving skills, and then utilizing those book skills in the afternoon in scenarios that seem very real.

I will have a sit down with my son and a few of the other cadets in his corps and see what they would like to see in a program like this.

 

[X Royal]

I'm prety sure EMR exists as such in Ontario, just not 100%. 
MM

Actually St. John Ambulance now uses the MFR program nationally. It is taught in three levels. AFA & EMR are now superseded.
Prerequisite for all courses is Standard First Aid + CPR/C.
1. Medical First Responder - 24 hrs. total.
2. Advanced Medical First Responder 1 - 40 hrs. total.
3. Advanced Medical First Responder 2 - 80 total.
For St. John Ambulance volunteers the minimum requirement is AMFR 1 to be certified for independent patient care. All these course are now recognized Canada wide.

Best Wishes: Rick

 

[rwgill]

Unfortunately with how long things take to change in the system, the interested cadets in this discussion will liikely be too old by the time these things come around.

You raise a valid point.

The Cadet Program is getting an update, which will begin in Sep 2008.  The summer course program, on the Army side, is getting a major over-haul.  An idea like this could, and probably would be looked at.

The current idea, IMHO, is seriously worth looking at.  Maybe someone should patent the idea before it gets stolen.

 

[MedCorps]

X Royal:  Thanks for that info.  You backed up the info I got from another source.  You do not have a copy of the MFR curriculum do you by any chance that you would be willing to share?  Or suggest an easy spot for me to snag this information.   

Everyone else:

Everything takes time... we are all just cogs in the machine. If no one ever starts anything, nothing will ever get done. 

Patent it... nah... it is all info in the public domain anyways, and information like this is meant to be shared (and I have already made my claim to fame, so if someone does I am not going to off myself). 

If anyone cares, Cdn031 and I have been working on biffing up the product you see here into a package to go upwards and onwards (there is a clear interest from higher).  Once it is a little more polished I will post the draft outline for review / comment / input / or distasteful comments <smile>.

Cheers, and thanks everyone again for your interest / input.

MC

 

[medicineman]

Actually St. John Ambulance now uses the MFR program nationally. It is taught in three levels. AFA & EMR are now superseded.
Prerequisite for all courses is Standard First Aid + CPR/C.
1. Medical First Responder - 24 hrs. total.
2. Advanced Medical First Responder 1 - 40 hrs. total.
3. Advanced Medical First Responder 2 - 80 total.
For St. John Ambulance volunteers the minimum requirement is AMFR 1 to be certified for independent patient care. All these course are now recognized Canada wide.

Best Wishes: Rick

I realize all that (I also instruct it) - but what is legislatively recognized isn't necessarily the same thing.  The Red Cross teaches EMR, and in some provinces, that's what the recognized training standard/title is.  And I'm pretty sure in Ontario it's EMR, as those are the epaulettes I see on uniformed non-paramedics wandering about.  MFR is a St John Ambulance title that was brought out to change the AFA to sound similar.

MM

 

[X Royal]

  And I'm pretty sure in Ontario it's EMR, as those are the epaulettes I see on uniformed non-paramedics wandering about.  MFR is a St John Ambulance title that was brought out to change the AFA to sound similar.
MM

EMR is not a provincially recognized standard in Ontario (re: working for an ambulance service in Ontario).
I suspect those non-paramedic's you see wandering about are in fact working in the patient transfer industry in Ontario. At present the industry is still self regulated to the best of my knowledge. In an attempt to avoid provincial regulations the industry has imposed upon its self a minimum standard of Emergency First Responder. In other words they can accept any course (AFA, EFR, EMR, MFR, AMFR ect.)  by Canadian Red Cross, St. John Ambulance or any other private provider that is generally a minimum of 24 hrs. on top of standard first aid.  I worked in this industry for about 2 years, 4 years ago.
In Ontario SJA - AFA has not been taught for a while. AFA became the EMR course. I took the SJA - EMR course about 5 years ago. The course has now changed again to the AMFR 1. The name change was not made to make the AFA sound similar to EMR but to reflect the generally small changes to the EMR course so that it would meet national standards.

Rick

 

[X Royal]

This post caused by my mistake on attempting to modify above post for clarity.

Best Wishes: Rick

 

[cdn031]

  Maybe someone should patent the idea before it gets stolen.

rwgill - thanks for giving me a good laugh today - Being a veteran of CIC/Cadet course development - and even seeing a course or two "Hijacked", it's incredibly encouraging to think that others recognize the value.
I'm with MedCorps on the "information wants to be free" approach - I think that's the beauty of this thread as a collaboration tool.
Plus I like the idea of peer review - as long as it stays positive.
The highest praise that this work could have is having someone run off with it!!!

All - We will continue to plug away at this till we have a workable product for a 6 week camp, then lobby for it with the various powers that be.
I encourage others to participate in the process, particularly those in the Medical disciplines or veteran CIC instructors (and CIL out there??)

take good care folks!

 

[catalyst]

What about a PO/Section on tying it into the Cadet program - you have Understand the Role of the Medical System in the Canadian Forces, but perhaps a section on tying it back into cadets - have them qualified to be first aiders on an FTX, set up a MIR tent, a section on working with youth, etc?

 

[medicineman]

EMR is not a provincially recognized standard in Ontario (re: working for an ambulance service in Ontario).
I suspect those non-paramedic's you see wandering about are in fact working in the patient transfer industry in Ontario.

I stand corrected.  However, in other provinces it is, and according to CMA and PAC , it is considered the bottom rung of the paramedicine ladder.  The guys I saw were actually working on county EMS rigs in said countys' uniforms, so I doubt they were private transfer guys.  Something to look into later on perhaps. 

For MedCorps, if you're still having problems finding cirriculae, drop me a note and I'll put you in touch with someone who help you out - we used to run the AMFR/MFR stuff for Gagetown.  Unfortunately, I don't have the up to date SJA one electronically at the moment (for some reason I have the CRC one - go figure  :).

Cheers all.

MM

 

[Old Ranger]

MM,
PM inbound

 

[MedCorps]

Just for the record, this program was hashed out as a six week camp in offline discussions. I was never sent to DCdt's (or whoever does summer Cdt camps).

Below is an outline of the final product.  If you are interested in all of the details (including all the EO's) or would like further help developing it please PM me.

MC

Purpose:

The purpose of the Cadet Emergency Care (EC) Course is to:
1) Provide the Cadet with medical first responder knowledge and skills.
2) Provide the Cadet with wilderness first aid knowledge and skills.
3) Provide the Cadet with field hygiene knowledge and skills.
4) Provide the Cadet with basic disaster rescue knowledge and skills.
5) Provide the Cadet with the opportunity to practice leadership in a simulated emergency environment.
6) Foster an interest in the medical sciences, clinical medicine, and disaster related topics.
7) Foster interest in medical careers including those within the Canadian Forces Medical Service

Concept of Operation:

The camp is proposed as an advanced level camp for Cadets 16 years of age or older. This six-week course would be a pass/fail six conducted in the Ottawa area in order to maximize available resources such as the two large universities 20 minutes from the Cadet Camp (both with labs and a BSc Biology program), a sizable city paramedic program, four large hospitals, the Museum of Nature, the Canadian Forces Health Care Centre (Ottawa), The Canadian Forces Health Services Headquarters, and The DND Special Centre for First Aid.

Performance Objectives:

PO 001 – Perform Military Standard Level First Aid
PO 002 - Perform Level C Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)
PO 003 – Utilize the Automatic External Defibrillator (AED) in a cardiac emergency
PO 004 – Understand basic anatomy
PO 005 - Understand basic physiology
PO 006 – Understand basic microbiology
PO 007 – Understand basic principles of pharmacology
PO 008 – Perform Medical First Response 
PO 009 – Perform Wilderness First Aid
PO 010 – Demonstrate proficiency in casualty simulation 
PO 011 – Understand and demonstrate fundamental field hygiene skills
PO 012 – Understand medical problems related to disasters and terrorism
PO 013 – Understand the importance of personal and family disaster preparedness
PO 014 - Understand and demonstrate fundamental rescue skills
PO 015 – Perform a search for missing casualties
PO 016– Understand the fundamentals of international disaster operations 
PO 017– Understands the medical risks associated with travel
PO 018– Understand the medical system within the Canadian Forces
PO 019– Completes Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System training

Qualifications on Graduation

St. John Ambulance Military Standard First Aid Certification
St John Ambulance Medical First Responder Certification
St John Ambulance Advanced Medical First Responder Level I Certification 
St John Ambulance Wilderness First Aid Certification
St John Ambulance CPR Level C and AED Certification
Health Canada Casualty Simulation Certification
Basic Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Explosive Certification
Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System Certification

----

 

[formercadet1029]

Just for the record, this program was hashed out as a six week camp in offline discussions. I was never sent to DCdt's (or whoever does summer Cdt camps).

Below is an outline of the final product.  If you are interested in all of the details (including all the EO's) or would like further help developing it please PM me.

MC

Purpose:

The purpose of the Cadet Emergency Care (EC) Course is to:
1) Provide the Cadet with medical first responder knowledge and skills.
2) Provide the Cadet with wilderness first aid knowledge and skills.
3) Provide the Cadet with field hygiene knowledge and skills.
4) Provide the Cadet with basic disaster rescue knowledge and skills.
5) Provide the Cadet with the opportunity to practice leadership in a simulated emergency environment.
6) Foster an interest in the medical sciences, clinical medicine, and disaster related topics.
7) Foster interest in medical careers including those within the Canadian Forces Medical Service

Concept of Operation:

The camp is proposed as an advanced level camp for Cadets 16 years of age or older. This six-week course would be a pass/fail six conducted in the Ottawa area in order to maximize available resources such as the two large universities 20 minutes from the Cadet Camp (both with labs and a BSc Biology program), a sizable city paramedic program, four large hospitals, the Museum of Nature, the Canadian Forces Health Care Centre (Ottawa), The Canadian Forces Health Services Headquarters, and The DND Special Centre for First Aid.

Performance Objectives:

PO 001 – Perform Military Standard Level First Aid
PO 002 - Perform Level C Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)
PO 003 – Utilize the Automatic External Defibrillator (AED) in a cardiac emergency
PO 004 – Understand basic anatomy
PO 005 - Understand basic physiology
PO 006 – Understand basic microbiology
PO 007 – Understand basic principles of pharmacology
PO 008 – Perform Medical First Response 
PO 009 – Perform Wilderness First Aid
PO 010 – Demonstrate proficiency in casualty simulation 
PO 011 – Understand and demonstrate fundamental field hygiene skills
PO 012 – Understand medical problems related to disasters and terrorism
PO 013 – Understand the importance of personal and family disaster preparedness
PO 014 - Understand and demonstrate fundamental rescue skills
PO 015 – Perform a search for missing casualties
PO 016– Understand the fundamentals of international disaster operations 
PO 017– Understands the medical risks associated with travel
PO 018– Understand the medical system within the Canadian Forces
PO 019– Completes Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System training

Qualifications on Graduation

St. John Ambulance Military Standard First Aid Certification
St John Ambulance Medical First Responder Certification
St John Ambulance Advanced Medical First Responder Level I Certification 
St John Ambulance Wilderness First Aid Certification
St John Ambulance CPR Level C and AED Certification
Health Canada Casualty Simulation Certification
Basic Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Explosive Certification
Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System Certification

----

This is a great idea for a summer cadet course in my opinion. I was a member of St. John's Ambulance for nearly 3 years while I was an Army Cadet, which is how I acquired my advanced first aide qualification. This 6 weeks you describe here dwarfs any first aide training I received during my time in SJA, really a great idea.

 

[Neill McKay]

It looks like a very good course.

If anyone intends to take this up, it may be helpful to refer to the former Medical Assistant course that was offered to sea cadets at HMCS QUADRA.  There may be some opportunity to avoid re-inventing the wheel in a few instances.

 

[medaid]

Ugh.... why SJA courses?

They are useless outside of the CF...

Why not a Red Cross EMR course? Considering it's the standard for EMR certs in many provinces BC, AB etc. The CF Fire Fighters are trained to the CRC EMR standard. You'll be given more in the CRC EMR course and recognized across the country.

I've just had bad experiences with SJA over, and over, and over, and over again. Working with their people who are supposedly AMFR trained and realizing that they can't find a pulse to save their lives. It's time to move away from SJA... there are other providers out there who are better.