C3 Howitzer Replacement

[KevinB]

But they're felt and heard, the exact kind of experience that drives Gen Z.

Which is exactly why one can do the same thing with a few bangers.

 

[TSM A]

That's the exact same mentality that has caused our COMREL to be non-existent since forever. The next generation are experientially driven, they need to see and feel first and foremost.The people need to be seeing us in public, this is a cheap easy win.

I did a display for my museum at the Abbotsford Airshow last year, we had more modern equipment than the CAF display (which was just a single G-Wagon).
Where has the OP Connect budget gone?

 

[PrairieFella]

I did a display for my museum at the Abbotsford Airshow last year, we had more modern equipment than the CAF display (which was just a single G-Wagon).
Where has the OP Connect budget gone?

There is no equipment. Beyond things like small arms or perhaps some comms kit, nothing is left in the Reserves for these kinds of tasks. What's left is prioritized for training and not brought out for dog and pony shows. VOR is the killer here. To your example, the LUVW is especially crucial since it's the only thing we have left in the RCAC reserve for any sort of semi-realistic training but they're all rusting out and the replacement has been pushed another 5 years. The fact one was let out to the show is an improvement.

 

[Genetk44]

Civilians care more about pomp and circumstance than many in the military appreciate.

I'll put it to you this way. To be relevant to others you must be seen. You can see that within the CF where capabilities that are not seen by the general part of the military population are frequently trimmed as low risk losses because senior management hasn't seen its value in their day to day experience.

We all sit around on this site and yap about how little the general public knows or cares about the military while everyone snuggles away and does their "operational stuff" in bases far removed from the public. Things like freedom of the city parades and gun salutes and flood and fire fighting and even Highway of Heros repatriations is a way for the public to see that the country does have a military and lets it appreciate just a little more its service.

Canada's military is quite poor at selling itself to the public. Every time we do a gun salute some legislative body and a slice of the public understands we are there. That matters.

THIS!!!!!! As a matter of fact I would say that Canada’s government, politicians and the military is absolutely terrible at selling the CAF to the public…..

 

[PrairieFella]

Which is exactly why one can do the same thing with a few bangers.

There's no pomp in that. It costs next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to do things properly.

 

[Furniture]

There's no pomp in that. It costs next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to do things properly.

100%

The money saved by scrapping a dedicated saluting gun would be pissed away on something that provides even less value to the CAF.

Lots of long serving CAF members hate ceremonial stuff because it "gets in the way" of operations, but the ceremonial stuff matters to civilians. If we are going to cut ceremonial, do it will all of the internal crap like change of command and graduation parades, and leave the public parades like Freedom of the City, Remembrance Day, legislature openings, etc... The more we withdraw from the public, the more they only see us when journalists use us as a punching bag in their latest hit piece.

 

[KevinB]

There's no pomp in that. It costs next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to do things properly.

Define properly.

I'd rather see the Ares properly kitted out with modern equipment.

Having 3-6 guns, and gun tractors for Saluting purposes at several armories makes zero sense if all they are there for is the saluting task.
Similarly is it a good use of the CAF budget to have 30-60 troops come in for a days pay to do a salute - or if instead of the Guns and Gun tractors one vehicle and 2-3 personnel could do it?

Heck if you want a Military Vehicle - then get some M98 pyrotechnical charges for the M6 MBGL's on the TAPV - there the Armoured Res can do it with one vehicle...

 

[PrairieFella]

Define properly.

I'd rather see the Ares properly kitted out with modern equipment.

Having 3-6 guns, and gun tractors for Saluting purposes at several armories makes zero sense if all they are there for is the saluting task.
Similarly is it a good use of the CAF budget to have 30-60 troops come in for a days pay to do a salute - or if instead of the Guns and Gun tractors one vehicle and 2-3 personnel could do it?

Heck if you want a Military Vehicle - then get some M98 pyrotechnical charges for the M6 MBGL's on the TAPV - there the Armoured Res can do it with one vehicle...

Bold of you to assume the tapv runs, they haven't for half a decade now lmao

 

[KevinB]

Bold of you to assume the tapv runs, they haven't for half a decade now lmao

But you see I found a role for it...
You can bill all the maintenance to the Ceremonial tasks too.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

But you see I found a role for it...
You can bill all the maintenance to the Ceremonial tasks too.

Apparently you guys are broke as well, will we see the guard at the national cemetery cut as well?

 

[KevinB]

Apparently you guys are broke as well, will we see the guard at the national cemetery cut as well?

We are stupid not broke...

 

[Czech_pivo]

We are stupid not broke...

What's worse - being broke but not stupid or being stupid but not broke?

In the first case you're aware of your deficiencies - in the second you don't have the ability to be aware of your deficiencies. Which would you chose, if you had to, and why?

 

[KevinB]

Lets focus this thread on the C3 replacement - or at least Artillery systems, not politics...

 

[quadrapiper]

Experience vary. Mine were in Toronto in Queen's Park and in Winnipeg - always out in the public eye.

Yeah. I see where cheap is in with the CF. Don't know when I've last seen a recruiting TV ad or a billboard. But I guess applicants aren't the problem. Throughput is.

Gun tractors, guns, and some booms around the Legislature are just about tailor-made for public engagement. Shame the openings are usually (always?) during the week.

 

[FJAG]

Gun tractors, guns, and some booms around the Legislature are just about tailor-made for public engagement. Shame the openings are usually (always?) during the week.

You do not need many people for a C3 gun salute. Three will do. A number 1, 2 and 4. In fact you can do it with 2 if pushed with the number 1 doubling as the number 4. You need to double man the guns to bring them into and out of action but firing a salute is dirt simple. You can literally deploy a four gun troop with as few as nine people. It's a half day event including cleaning the guns afterwards. So we're talking 4.5 to 6.5 days pay. Cheap as borscht.

And if you keep C3s, they don't need a specific gun tractor. You can tow those suckers on city streets with an F150 with the right hitch.