C3 Howitzer Replacement

[KevinB]

Yes. But we don't have real helicopters in our TacHel squadrons and just one heavy lift squadron.

FIFY

 

[ytz]

FIFY

I mean. By this argument, the USMC doesn't have real helicopters in a lot of their squadrons. I would just argue there is a substantial mismatch between doctrine, capability and operating intent. I still remember this article where Griffon crews on Ex at Twentynine Palms pretend they can do all kinds of roles. Including recce and CAS. The army is abusing the can-do spirit of 1 Wing and everybody is pretending to have way more capability than we would in an actual near-peer. To be fair, this phenomenon is not just a 1 Wing thing though.....

 

[KevinB]

80-98 155mm SPA
So that is looking at ~12 x 8 Gun Btys 13 x 6
I like 8/Bty and 4 Gun Batteries / Reg't (Canada tends to have 3 Maneuver Units / Bde, and I am a stickler for 1:1 CS Bty

Which works out to 3 SPA Regiments and 1 M777 (again hoping to retain them)
- In my world 3 of the Gun Bty / RCHA are PRes (30-70 concept and all that) - which would require 12 PRes Batteries.

For the 120mm Mortar, you also get 12 x 8Tube Platoons
6 for the 6 LAV Bn's
3 for the RCAC Regiments (RCD, LdSH, and the 12 Blind folks in Valcatraz)
3 for ...

Now the 81mm, you can get 10 x 8 Tube Platoons.
3 for the Reg LIB's
7 for the PRes?

--------------------
I'm still not really understand the Mortar system numbers and how they reflect with the CA force construct.

I mean. By this argument, the USMC doesn't have real helicopters in a lot of their squadrons. I would just argue there is a substantial mismatch between doctrine, capability and operating intent. I still remember this article where Griffon crews on Ex at Twentynine Palms pretend they can do all kinds of roles. Including recce and CAS. The army is abusing the can-do spirit of 1 Wing and everybody is pretending to have way more capability than we would in an actual near-peer. To be fair, this phenomenon is not just a 1 Wing thing though.....

Well I would suggest the Viper and Venom are Military Helicopters - as opposed to green painted commercial birds
While the IE/EO on the Griffon is nice, I am just not sold on the base platform being a solid pick.

 

[markppcli]

I mean. By this argument, the USMC doesn't have real helicopters in a lot of their squadrons. I would just argue there is a substantial mismatch between doctrine, capability and operating intent. I still remember this article where Griffon crews on Ex at Twentynine Palms pretend they can do all kinds of roles. Including recce and CAS. The army is abusing the can-do spirit of 1 Wing and everybody is pretending to have way more capability than we would in an actual near-peer. To be fair, this phenomenon is not just a 1 Wing thing though.....

I don’t know if it really comes from the Army. The TAC Hel community is pretty adamant that they should be seen as an attack asset vs anything logistical.

 

[AvroArrow92]

It seems through RFP says we have roughly 200ish 81mm dismounted mortars in service. Is this program getting ride of all the dismounted mortars? That seems like a self inflicted wound for no reason. It’s kinda like we got ride of the 60mm when we got the automatic 40mm. Very much a two steps forward one step back imo.

 

[ytz]

It seems through RFP says we have roughly 200ish 81mm dismounted mortars in service. Is this program getting ride of all the dismounted mortars? That seems like a self inflicted wound for no reason. It’s kinda like we got ride of the 60mm when we got the automatic 40mm. Very much a two steps forward one step back imo.

As I said earlier, you guys (the CA) are going through what the RCAF went through in the 90s with rationalizations of fleets and roles. I think y'all are going to have to come to terms with the idea that the CA can't do everything. Entirely possible that the CA is looking to divest from a large amount of lighter roles.

 

[KevinB]

It seems through RFP says we have roughly 200ish 81mm dismounted mortars in service. Is this program getting ride of all the dismounted mortars? That seems like a self inflicted wound for no reason. It’s kinda like we got ride of the 60mm when we got the automatic 40mm. Very much a two steps forward one step back imo.

Most of the 81's were "well used" in the 90's, I was in 1VP's Mortar Platoon when we packed them up in 2003/4, and they where not in great shape -- Ideally a new 81mm Dismounted system would be acquired as well, and adopt what is done down here with a 81mm Dismount available for all 120mm mounted or towed systems.

Spitballing numbers using my preferred 2 Div 6 Bde setup.
2 Armoured Bde (total of 4 Inf BN, 4 Tank Bn)
2 LAV Bde (total of 6 Inf BN, 2 LAV-CAV BN)
I would have a requirement for 16 120mm Mortar Platoons, and 4 SPA RCHA Regiments.

2 Light Bde (total of 6 Inf BN) 6 81mm Mortar Platoons, maybe 12 if you opted for a 2 Platoon Mortar Company for each BN.
and 2 M777 RCHA Regiments.

As I said earlier, you guys (the CA) are going through what the RCAF went through in the 90s with rationalizations of fleets and roles. I think y'all are going to have to come to terms with the idea that the CA can't do everything. Entirely possible that the CA is looking to divest from a large amount of lighter roles.

The problem is the CA doesn't have enough equipment to divest anything at this point.
It can field 1 LAV Bde with a slew of missing enablers, and 1 LAV Bde with tanks (with a slew of missing enablers).
The remaining near 4 Bde's of troops (by numbers) have no equipment...

 

[Maxman1]

Yes. But we don't have medium helicopters in our TacHel squadrons and just one heavy lift squadron.

Well I would suggest the Viper and Venom are Military Helicopters - as opposed to green painted commercial birds
While the IE/EO on the Griffon is nice, I am just not sold on the base platform being a solid pick.

The Griffon needs to be replaced in the future, and the British Army and RAF are likely to buy this now that the competing bids have been withdrawn, maybe we should jump on that.

And maybe also a fleet of Merlin utility AW101.

 

[ytz]

The problem is the CA doesn't have enough equipment to divest anything at this point.
It can field 1 LAV Bde with a slew of missing enablers, and 1 LAV Bde with tanks (with a slew of missing enablers).
The remaining near 4 Bde's of troops (by numbers) have no equipment...

I am not going to profess to know what the CA FD shop is thinking. But I can see a rationalization path that says a small fleet of 777s is to burdensome to be worthwhile and the CAF should simply drop the idea of a towed gun. I don't know how many of you have been in recently. But there is a real push on to make the difficult investment/divestment decisions across the CAF (more recently).

 

[ytz]

The Griffon needs to be replaced in the future, and the British Army and RAF are likely to buy this now that the competing bids have been withdrawn, maybe we should jump on that.

DAR has pledged to keep the Griffon going as long as possible until they can get FVL or NGRC. They even have exchanges and embeds at those programs monitoring. They are determined not to get stuck with an interim replacement that ends up staying in service for decades. Currently the Griffon is not programmed to leave before 2032.

RCAF to look at 'revolutionary' vertical lift options to replace CH-146 Griffon - Skies Mag

As the RCAF launches into a project for its next tactical aviation platforms, it is closely following what allies are doing.

skiesmag.com

 

[Kirkhill]

https://en.topwar.ru/240599-imeet-unikalnuju-mnogorychazhnuju-podvesku-predstavlen-tjazhelyj-variant-bronetransportera-piranha.html

Large artillery gun added to new 10x10 Piranha | Shephard

In April, General Dynamics European Land Systems (GDELS) MOWAG unveiled the Piranha Heavy Mission Carrier (10x10), an enhanced version of its Piranha armoured vehicle series featuring increased payload capacity and specialised configurations for diverse battlefield roles.

www.shephardmedia.com

RCH-155 on Piranha 10x10 by GDELS.

 

[suffolkowner]

View attachment 91393

https://en.topwar.ru/240599-imeet-unikalnuju-mnogorychazhnuju-podvesku-predstavlen-tjazhelyj-variant-bronetransportera-piranha.html

Large artillery gun added to new 10x10 Piranha | Shephard

In April, General Dynamics European Land Systems (GDELS) MOWAG unveiled the Piranha Heavy Mission Carrier (10x10), an enhanced version of its Piranha armoured vehicle series featuring increased payload capacity and specialised configurations for diverse battlefield roles.

www.shephardmedia.com

RCH-155 on Piranha 10x10 by GDELS.

at that point just put it on tracks

 

[Kirkhill]

at that point just put it on tracks

Army Guide

Army Guide - information about the main battle tanks, armoured vehicles and armament of the land forces and also the information concerning other army subjects - Piranha III 10x10, Reconnaissance Vehicle, Armoured Vehicles

www.army-guide.com

 

[Kirkhill]

80-98 155mm SPA
So that is looking at ~12 x 8 Gun Btys 13 x 6
I like 8/Bty and 4 Gun Batteries / Reg't (Canada tends to have 3 Maneuver Units / Bde, and I am a stickler for 1:1 CS Bty

Which works out to 3 SPA Regiments and 1 M777 (again hoping to retain them)
- In my world 3 of the Gun Bty / RCHA are PRes (30-70 concept and all that) - which would require 12 PRes Batteries.

For the 120mm Mortar, you also get 12 x 8Tube Platoons
6 for the 6 LAV Bn's
3 for the RCAC Regiments (RCD, LdSH, and the 12 Blind folks in Valcatraz)
3 for ...

Now the 81mm, you can get 10 x 8 Tube Platoons.
3 for the Reg LIB's
7 for the PRes?

--------------------
I'm still not really understand the Mortar system numbers and how they reflect with the CA force construct.


Well I would suggest the Viper and Venom are Military Helicopters - as opposed to green painted commercial birds
While the IE/EO on the Griffon is nice, I am just not sold on the base platform being a solid pick.

Now attach some PYs/FTEs to those.

M777 x 33 (Det of 8) = 264 Gunners
RCH155 x 98 (Det of 2) = 196 Gunners

NEMO120 x 99 (Det of 4) = 396 Gunners

Scorpion 81 x 85 (Det of 2) = 170 "Gunners"

 

[Maxman1]

DAR has pledged to keep the Griffon going as long as possible until they can get FVL or NGRC. They even have exchanges and embeds at those programs monitoring. They are determined not to get stuck with an interim replacement that ends up staying in service for decades. Currently the Griffon is not programmed to leave before 2032.

RCAF to look at 'revolutionary' vertical lift options to replace CH-146 Griffon - Skies Mag

As the RCAF launches into a project for its next tactical aviation platforms, it is closely following what allies are doing.

skiesmag.com

It will still need a replacement at some point, and the AW149 is a solid, purpose built military helicopter.

 

[suffolkowner]

Army Guide

Army Guide - information about the main battle tanks, armoured vehicles and armament of the land forces and also the information concerning other army subjects - Piranha III 10x10, Reconnaissance Vehicle, Armoured Vehicles

www.army-guide.com

to me you might as well put it on a non LAV truck or like i said on tracks

Is there a video of it in action?
maybe one side by side with a Donar or PZH 2000?

 

[daftandbarmy]

It will still need a replacement at some point, and the AW149 is a solid, purpose built military helicopter.

The US military is replacing everything 'rotary' with tilt rotors, it seems. Any advantage to following along?

The Bell V-280 Valor Will Replace the Army's Legendary Black Hawk

The Army announced Bell as the victor in the longstanding Future Long-Range Assault Aircraft (FLRAA) competition to replace the Army's aging fleet of Black Hawk helicopters, marking the branch's largest rotorcraft purchase in more than 30 years.

www.military.com

 

[quadrapiper]

I don’t know if it really comes from the Army. The TAC Hel community is pretty adamant that they should be seen as an attack asset vs anything logistical.

Monkey paw time... "After years of uneasy residence in the RCAF, all Griffin squadrons and personnel are transferred to Log Branch, reformed as Air Transport Battalions."

Re: mortars, how're the Reserves set for 81 mm? I.e., would that be a likely home for the current set of those weapons, either in artillery or infantry units?

 

[Kirkhill]

to me you might as well put it on a non LAV truck or like i said on tracks

Is there a video of it in action?
maybe one side by side with a Donar or PZH 2000?

Don't have one of the Piranha / LAV version but there are a few of the Boxer version which weighs in just short of 39 tonnes

The GDELS Piranha 10x10 HMC tops out at 40 tonnes.

https://www.gdels.com/pr.php?news=186

Our LAV 6 tops out at just short of 29 tonnes.

The Archer system, on either the Volvo 6x6 Artic or the MAN 8x8 straight frame weighs in at 33 tonnes.

https://www.baesystems.com/en-media/uploadFile/20220823142136/1573681192677.pdf

 

[Halifax Tar]

I agree with the concept of having lots of spares. What makes more sense than having spare equipment and trained spare people in several ResF units where the equipment can be maintained and lightly used in training?

I love your commitment to the ARes. They have no bigger champion than you my friend.

For historical accuracy been should just use cracked four pounders.

Thats Naval Gunnery. A whole different St Barbara.