C3 Howitzer Replacement

[markppcli]

What then do DP1 gunners do at the school? Sorry. My curiosity is aroused.

Based on my conversation with two new gunners in Z bty - fuck all. Essentially DP1 is what SQ was, then they’re to learn their trade at the units. How the units are supposed to employ them / run these courses is anyone’s guess. This is actually the goal for a lot of combat arms trades, with DP1 training to be delivered at the units… how and to what standard has never been disclosed to me beyond the RSM of the Army tell me I need to “adjust my expectations.”

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Based on my conversation with two new gunners in Z bty - fuck all. Essentially DP1 is what SQ was, then they’re to learn their trade at the units. How the units are supposed to employ them / run these courses is anyone’s guess. This is actually the goal for a lot of combat arms trades, with DP1 training to be delivered at the units… how and to what standard has never been disclosed to me beyond the RSM of the Army tell me I need to “adjust my expectations.”

Yeah, because ignoring standards has always worked out well for the CAF….

 

[markppcli]

Yeah, because ignoring standards has always worked out well for the CAF….

It’s almost like we created this whole organization in order to ensure we’re training new soldiers to a given standard. Ironically he was addressing us in Gagetown where all students discuss hazing in the Russian army and how informal training plays a part in it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Based on my conversation with two new gunners in Z bty - fuck all. Essentially DP1 is what SQ was, then they’re to learn their trade at the units. How the units are supposed to employ them / run these courses is anyone’s guess. This is actually the goal for a lot of combat arms trades, with DP1 training to be delivered at the units… how and to what standard has never been disclosed to me beyond the RSM of the Army tell me I need to “adjust my expectations.”

It's almost as if they're trying to copy the way the Reserves get trained

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It’s almost like we created this whole organization in order to ensure we’re training new soldiers to a given standard. Ironically he was addressing us in Gagetown where all students discuss hazing in the Russian army and how informal training plays a part in it.

This what happens when we promote people to high positions with no exposure to the training system…

 

[KevinB]

This what happens when we promote people to high positions with no exposure to the training system…

Or common sense and a willingness to learn and critically think.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Something to keep in mind about winter combat ops

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621496667731107842

 

[Kirkhill]

Something to keep in mind about winter combat ops

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621496667731107842

Seems to have slowed down the "scoot" part of the operation!

On the other hand the must have been at least ready to "shoot" at that location for quite a while.

 

[Kirkhill]

M777 crew - under wire cage with scrim net.

20 to 120 rounds per day - and it doesn't sound as if they are moving all that often any more.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10ucvxf

 

[suffolkowner]

M777 crew - under wire cage with scrim net.

20 to 120 rounds per day - and it doesn't sound as if they are moving all that often any more.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10ucvxf

thats a good sign of reduced Russian counter battery ability

 

[Kirkhill]

Soledar artillery - wanting more help, starting to lose faith in the West's support?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Back in the day when we took artillery seriously.

 

[markppcli]

It's almost as if they're trying to copy the way the Reserves get trained

The power point some one showed me did include at 1960s militia soldier “training book,” so not far off

 

[FJAG]

Based on my conversation with two new gunners in Z bty - fuck all. Essentially DP1 is what SQ was, then they’re to learn their trade at the units. How the units are supposed to employ them / run these courses is anyone’s guess. This is actually the goal for a lot of combat arms trades, with DP1 training to be delivered at the units… how and to what standard has never been disclosed to me beyond the RSM of the Army tell me I need to “adjust my expectations.”

Back in the 70s the DP1 training was called TQ 3 and TQ 4. TQ3 was essentially a course that combined SQish things as well as all the basic gun number training in a course format. TQ 4 was further gun number and other skills in the field handled in the unit as OJT. We used to get folks from the school with TQ3 and then had a hell of a time programing all the TQ4 stuff on exercises.

When they reestablished air defence we got a major influx of recruits in the artillery and we ended up getting folks right after BMQ into the regiments where we would have one or two troops going at all times for the better part of the year. It worked out really well as long as you run it as a formal course for 20 to 30 guys at a time with a solid staff of around 6 or 7. If you do it in little penny packets it can flounder.

Personally I'm a fan of the US One Station Training model where folks come of the street as civvies, are given to a depot unit and 22 weeks later are handed to the battalion as trained gun numbers. (albeit, I don't think that you need a whole 22 weeks.)

 

[Dana381]

Given that the caeser uses a Ranault engine and chassis, supply chains may already exist for us since Renault also owns Mack defense who made our MSVS SMP, which has a Renault engine.

Technically Volvo purchased Renault and Renault owned Mack so they are all Volvo companies. Since 2008 Volvo put their engine in Mack trucks and called it the MP engine. The Renault engine in the MSVS SMP is a Volvo D11 with Renault badges. Parts are the same and interchangeable between them. The only difference may be some emissions parts because the SMP apparently is built with Euro emissions and not EPA emissions like trucks in Canada.

When we first bought Sperwer for Kabul we didn't have a truck for the launcher so we rented/borrowed a Renault launcher truck. It caused parts problems in Kabul. We were able to beg borrow and steal suitable parts from the French and Germans there. It was not an optimal solution.

When was that because like I said above in 2008 Volvo made all their engines the same. Now it would be much easier to get parts for Renault trucks.

 

[FJAG]

Technically Volvo purchased Renault and Renault owned Mack so they are all Volvo companies. Since 2008 Volvo put their engine in Mack trucks and called it the MP engine. The Renault engine in the MSVS SMP is a Volvo D11 with Renault badges. Parts are the same and interchangeable between them. The only difference may be some emissions parts because the SMP apparently is built with Euro emissions and not EPA emissions like trucks in Canada.



When was that because like I said above in 2008 Volvo made all their engines the same. Now it would be much easier to get parts for Renault trucks.

The mission started in 2003. The launcher could have been mounted on another truck but time was too short so they borrowed a Renault Kerax with a launcher from SAGEM, Sperwer's manufacturer.

There's a fairly comprehensive history on the use of Sperwer by Canada from the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum which you can find here.

The reference to the Renault is at page 8. During my interviews there were a number of weaknesses pointed out in the maintenance and logistics problems with Sperwer (and its truck) as well as the leased ARTHUR radar system which had both been acquired under UOR and which the logistics chain had troubles with. The Renault issue was solved by scrounging similar parts from the Germans whose vehicles had some parts similarity that could be worked with. For ARTHUR the saving grace was the field troops dealing direct with the manufacturer and literally having parts couriered to Kabul. Aside from the truck (which was not a big issue because the launcher was moved very little, Sperwer itself had quite a few issues requiring maintenance.

 

[Dana381]

Volvo bought Renault in 2000 but Mack trucks continued to use the Mack/Renault E7 series engine until 2007 when Volvo released the D11, D13 and D16 engines.

Volvo then put them in Mack trucks as the MP7, MP8, and MP10. I can only assume they did similar with Renault trucks. I am unaware if Renault used the E7 engine in their truck I only know that the engine castings had both Mack and Renault cast into them.

The D series engines were their displacement in liters, the E series and the MP series were their displacement in hundreds of cubic inches. E7 MP7 =700cu/in

 

[Eaglelord17]

Based on my conversation with two new gunners in Z bty - fuck all. Essentially DP1 is what SQ was, then they’re to learn their trade at the units. How the units are supposed to employ them / run these courses is anyone’s guess. This is actually the goal for a lot of combat arms trades, with DP1 training to be delivered at the units… how and to what standard has never been disclosed to me beyond the RSM of the Army tell me I need to “adjust my expectations.”

We are going to pay a blood price for the lack of training we are providing our troops one day.

Even just when they dumbed down BMQ-L and took the C6 out I noticed troops had substantially worse handling for the C9 due to a lot less time with it. I have had to stop more than a few people from losing teeth trying to take the mainspring out of a cocked MG (2 arty, one infantry).

Now they have completely removed BMQ-L from support trades. Should be going the opposite way and over training, especially on the combat basics. Much easier to have received that training and never need it, than not have it and end up dead.

One of the things Canada was always known for was having well trained troops who just had poor equipment. Now we are having poorly trained troops, with poor equipment.

 

[MilEME09]

We are going to pay a blood price for the lack of training we are providing our troops one day.

Even just when they dumbed down BMQ-L and took the C6 out I noticed troops had substantially worse handling for the C9 due to a lot less time with it. I have had to stop more than a few people from losing teeth trying to take the mainspring out of a cocked MG (2 arty, one infantry).

Now they have completely removed BMQ-L from support trades. Should be going the opposite way and over training, especially on the combat basics. Much easier to have received that training and never need it, than not have it and end up dead.

One of the things Canada was always known for was having well trained troops who just had poor equipment. Now we are having poorly trained troops, with poor equipment.

What I love the most about cutting BMQL is we were told each corp was going to have its own course the cover the topics in trade specific ways. In traditional fashion we canned BMQL before these new courses were ready, and now it looks like they will never happen

 

[Old Sweat]

I can't say that I am up to date on the current methodology and the rest of training new soldiers in what we used to call "primary combat functions" or PCFs. However, I graduated from the RCA Depot on 21 June 1958 trained as a basic gun number on the C1. That fall I attended a 12 week basic Technical Assistant Field course in the Regimental School followed by a Signaller RCA course over the winter. That seemed to work for me, and for several generations of gunners before and after me. I was emloyed as a tech in our troop command post until September 1960 when I was promoted officer cadet and sent off to Shilo for 11 months training.

I do question reducing time on basic soldier skill, usually under financial pressure, as it is a step baclwards.