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Buying/selling Medals Superthread [merged]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bulvyn
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Another story on sale of medals:-

CNews 12 January 2005

WWII hero's medals go on auction block

By LES PERREAUX
 
QUEBEC (CP) - Foreign bidders are expected to line up for a chance to buy the medals of a Canadian hero from the Second World War who became a controversial figure in the Quebec sovereignty debate.

The family of Dollard Menard will auction off a dozen of his decorations at the end of the month after abandoning hope of getting a decent price for them - and a truckload of other memorabilia - from federal or Quebec museums.

Menard, a young senior army officer from Quebec, was wounded five times during the disastrous Dieppe Raid in 1942 but carried on leading his troops.

The war-time hero sparked controversy later in life. He was mocked by fellow former army generals when he said he would vote for Quebec sovereignty in the 1980 referendum to boost the province's bargaining power. Some hurtfully suggested his war wounds affected his judgment.

"Was he separatist? I never heard it," said Cliff Chadderton, chairman of the National Council of Veteran Associations, who served with Menard.

"He did say the Canadian government failed to recognize what French-Canadian troops did. If that's separatism, I've got it all wrong."

Chadderton noted a Canadian flag hung prominently in Menard's office when he was a general at a base near Shilo, Man.

Menard's medals are expected to draw up to $20,000 from private bidders.

"These medals will most likely end up in England or in the United States," said Abraham Rogozinsky, the head of Empire Auctions, the house that will handle the sale Jan. 23-27 in Montreal.

"If they were French or American or British, they'd be priceless. But Canada treats its heroes a little differently than most countries in the world. And it's sure a shame."

The Canadian War Museum negotiated with Menard's son, Charles Menard, for several years but could not reach an agreement. The museum does not have a budget to pay cash for acquisitions, though it does offer tax receipts.

They also could not agree on what to do with hundreds of other items collected by Menard during his military career.

The museum automatically accepts and preserves the service medals of any Canadian soldier, according to Joe Geurts, director of the museum.

"We serve as the repository for many thousands of medals, but that doesn't mean we buy them," Geurts said.

Menard's medals are not the first decorations of high-profile Canadian war heroes to face the uncertainty of sale.

Most recently, a British collector tried to buy the Victoria Cross paratrooper Cpl. Fred Topham received near the end of the Second World War.

Decorations awarded to John McCrae, author of In Flanders Field, were auctioned off in 1997. The medals of Sgt. Tommy Prince, one of Canada's most decorated soldiers, were sold in an auction in 2001. Fredrick Banting's Memorial Cross was sold in 2003.

In each case Canadians rallied to come up with thousands of dollars to buy the medals and hand them over to Canadian museums. Almost $1 million was spent in the combined efforts.

Export rules would prevent the medals from immediately leaving the country and Geurts said he believes a movement to buy them might take place if they go to a foreign bidder.

"My guess is some forces would come together to probably raise the money to keep them here," Geurts said.

"I think if citizens of the country come together and everybody including school children gets together and does this, I think it's a good thing. There is adequate protection in our policy framework to protect items of Canadian national significance."

Menard was promoted at age 29 to become one of the youngest lieutenant-colonels in the history of the British Empire in 1939.

After he was wounded and returned to Canada, Menard toured the country raising funds for the war effort. He was a hero in Quebec. Posters were printed in French bragging Menard embodied "what it takes to win." A street is named after him in Dieppe, France.

"He was the bravest of the brave and his troops would follow him anywhere," said Chadderton.

Menard died in 1993 at 83. His medals included the Distinguished Service Order and the French Legion of Honour, but he always felt the Canadian government robbed him of a Victoria Cross, according to Chadderton.

"And he was right, there is no doubt about it," Chadderton said. "It was a real insult, a slap in the face."

The cross, the highest military honour available to Canadian troops for acts of bravery, was awarded to two English-speaking soldiers for the Dieppe battle.


 
The bottom line is that the medals were awarded to the recipients, not loaned to them!
The idea that I or my family cannot sell MY personal possessions is ridiculous. The idea that a member of parliament even forwarded that idea shocked me! Are we still a democratic country or are we sliding down the path to a totalitarian state(like the old USSR).
If I choose to sell my medals that is my choice, not the governments! :threat:
 
This topic was started by Bill Smy and is seven pages long already which you can find in the POLITICAL BOARD.  
 
More on Brigadier-General Menard's  medals from the Globe and Mail:

GLOBE AND MAIL
DATE: 2005.01.14

Family split over sale of medals Relatives up in arms as youngest son of
Dieppe hero plans to auction father's wartime artifacts

TU THANH HA MONTREAL

Descendants of Dieppe war hero Dollard Menard are
furious with his youngest son's plans to sell his father's medals and are
trying to find ways to stop the coming auction.
Brigadier-General Menard's possessions will be put on the block in Montreal,
starting Jan. 23, at the behest of Charles Menard, 52, who is the executor
of his father's will.
The prospect of the general's medals, especially the Distinguished Service
Order he earned for bravery at Dieppe, ending up in the hands of a foreign
collector has upset other relatives and veterans groups.
"He's never discussed this with the family and under no circumstances would
we agree to this," Marie Carrigan, a granddaughter, said.
But Charles said yesterday he is confident a wealthy benefactor will
purchase the medals and donate them to a museum in return for a tax credit.
The general's other children say they weren't consulted about the auction
and are trying to talk their brother out of selling the medals and other
items.
"The rest of the family is quite upset," the eldest son, Jacques Menard, 63,
said.
He said the rest of the family is scrambling to find a lawyer in Quebec in
an effort to obtain a court injunction.
However, Charles said, the medals were directly willed to him so that his
relatives' legal recourses would be limited.
Charles lived with his father in his later years, when controversy
surrounded the general after he voted Yes in the 1980 referendum to give
Quebec more negotiating powers.
The ensuing acrimony marked the youngest son, who said the sale of the
medals is a way to indict federal officials for failing to tend properly to
his father's legacy. He wanted to sell the medals to the Canadian War
Museum, but it would offer only a tax credit.
Brig.-Gen. Menard died in 1997. His wife, Charlotte Joncas, died in 2002.
While Charles is the estate's executor, the will stipulates that he must
consult the other relatives, Jacques said.
He urged his brother to donate the medals to Kingston's Royal Military
College, from which their father graduated in 1936.
Charles said the medals are a key part of the auction, enhancing the value
of the other artifacts.
He said he was weary of tending to his father's belongings and said his
other relatives had contributed little to that duty.
"We didn't even know he was negotiating in the first place to place the
medals somewhere," Jacques said.
With the other siblings living in British Columbia, Ontario and Spain,
Charles is the only one of the general's children still residing in Quebec.
Contacts among him and other relatives have been infrequent, they said.
"He must consult and he has not done that. Instead, we find out through
other parties that our heritage is up for sale," Jacques said.
"If my grandfather was alive, he'd be horrified," Ms. Carrigan said.
The scheduled auction will go ahead as planned, Empire Auctions president
Abraham Rogozinsky said, because Charles is the rightful executor of the
estate.
He said he had obtained a legal opinion that "the person who gave Empire
this consignment is the person who has the right to do it." The DSO sits
just one rung below the Victoria Cross, the Commonwealth's most coveted
award for bravery.
Brig.-Gen. Menard earned his DSO at Dieppe, where he was a 29-year-old
lieutenant-colonel, one of the youngest commanding officers in the Canadian
army.
Despite being wounded five times during the bloody 1942 raid, he kept
directing his infantry unit, the Fusiliers Mont-Royal.
Other medals he earned include the French Legion of Honour and the United
Nations Bronze Medal for Peacekeeping.
 
An update on Menard story; an editorial by Peter Worthington:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Peter_Worthington/2005/01/16/900597.html

Mon, January 17, 2005

DSO is far from a VC

By Peter Worthington

Another set of WWII medals is up for auction.

These ones are in Quebec, and include a Distinguished Service Order (DSO) and French Legion of Honour won by the late Brig.-Gen. Dollard Menard when he was a lieutenant colonel and commanded the Fusiliers Mont Royal at Dieppe in WWII.

Some have wondered if the Sun is interested in raising money for them. This question was clearly inspired by the Sun's campaign to help the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion Association raise over $300,000 to prevent the Victoria Cross won by paratrooper Fred Topham from being auctioned in Britain.

Is the Sun concerned? The short answer is "No."

Noteworthy

Brig. Gen. Menard's medals, although noteworthy, don't meet the criteria of "rare" or significant to our heritage.

As executor of his father's estate, Charles Menard, is anxious to sell the medals, apparently over the objections of other members of the family.

The National War Museum offered a tax deduction for them, but has insufficient cash to bid. Charles Menard wants greenbacks, not tax credits.

Some have noted that the DSO is "one rung" below the VC in prestige. Nonsense. It ranks next to the VC as an award, yes, but it's a distant second -- maybe 100 rungs below the VC in esteem. Make that 1,000 rungs below.

For example, 94 Canadians have won the VC in over 150 years; 1,220 Canadians have won the DSO in its 120 years of existence. No Canadian has won the VC twice (only three of 1,354 VC recipients have a VC and bar), while 119 Canadians have a bar to the DSO, and 20 Canadians have two bars. (Col. Jim Stone of the PPCLI was the last triple-DSO winner at the battle of Kapyong in Korea, 1951).

At Dieppe, Col. Menard was wounded several times, and was one of several commanding officers who got the DSO in that action.

In fact, the DSO is generally regarded as an award to commanding officers whose units perform well. If one is awarded to a junior officer it means he was likely recommended for a VC.

One never knows

It is doubtful that Menard's medals will attract $20,000, but one never knows at auctions.

What makes most sense for disposing of these medals yet keeping them in Canada -- assuming money is the goal of Menard's son -- is to sell them to the regimental museum of the Fusiliers Mont Royal, presuming they have one.

Newfoundland MP Peter Stoffer (NDP) has talked about sponsoring a Private Member's Bill to forbid the sale of war medals, because it is selling part of our heritage.

While one can sympathize with Stoffer's desire to keep such symbols in Canada, it is difficult to see how such sales can be forbidden.

When a soldier (or sailor, or airman) is awarded medals, either for valour or service, surely they are his, and if he or his relatives want to dispose of them, that is their right.

Defeated U.S. presidential contender John Kerry once pretended to throw his medals away in a symbolic gesture of disgust at his country -- a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.

It was a fake gesture. The medals are now mounted in a frame in his office, but throwing them away was his right. He earned them fighting for his country in a war that was about freedom of choice.

That also applies to Canada. While we deplore the selling of valuable medals, the law should not be imposed to prevent it.

Menard's DSO means something, but so many commanding officers in WWII got it, it isn't worth much.

For what it's worth, every Canadian commanding officer except one in the Korean War emerged with a DSO. It was harder for a CO not to get a DSO than it was to win one.
 
I think the worst thing about this issue is that many Canadians have almost no interest or knowledge in our military history to begin with, but would be quick to support a warm and fuzzy idea such as banning the sale of decorations. Collectors on the other hand, are genuinely interested and vastly knowledgeable in our fighting heritage, and actively take steps to preserve it. I know many who could teach university history classes if given the chance. So many artifacts and items of significance would have been lost if it weren't for the efforts of these people. They spend years doing research, aquiring individual pieces, assembling collections and even publishing books. Removing the monetary value from these decorations would only ensure that most ended up in the garbage or attic instead of in a collection or museum. Unfortunately the War Museum does not have the resources to buy every piece that comes up for sale, but that is reality. Don't forget that in many instances they keep their efforts secret to avoid inflating the price, especialy the high-profile cases, something the papers don't consider in their articles...

Cheers!



 
One thing that I have realized, is that although we beat up the civvies for "not recognizing the military"  there was quite a bit of enthusiasm for the saving, if you will, of  Cpl. Fred Topham's gongs.

Ya, a collector's  passion, matched with his knowledge, helps to preserve our history.  But, maybe  the intentions of some politicians aren't that far off either.  Hey I am a big fan of bashing any good week kneed PONTI willing to ride on the coattails of all this, but at least it is firing up the recognition from our public that has remained dormant for so long.

dunno, I should just stop having a pint at dinner, then settling down to log on here....

tess



 
Canadian Armed Forces Military Medal Set,
Certificate of Service, and Ribbon Set Included !!
9 pieces !!
MINT CONDITION !!

NATO Special Service Medal - United Nations Peacekeeper - United Nations Cyprus - Commemorative Decoration
** Complete with framed Certificate of Service and Ribbons
**I am selling my medals just to survive while Canadian Veteran Affairs plays the part of insurance adjuster, and takes 2+ years to review disability claim, while I go broke & hungry.
***Please accept this as my negative statement on how Canadian Veterans sometimes were/are, and are going to be Mal Treated in Canada.

**Not all, but many are being allowed to fall through the cracks. Particularly those with no families to cry out in anger for them.
**It has to do with Liberal Party budget restraint, and Liberal Party distaste for the Distinguished Canadian Armed Forces, its Non Commissioned Members, and their Families.

Background....

My entire family was injured while I served NATO and the CAF in Germany in 1989, and we have been neglected, mistreated, mismanaged, and ignored, all while suffering the effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other physical injuries from a terrible motor vehicle accident on the autobahn in Germany; that cost my mother her life, and me my family, as I knew it. I was driving my mother, wife, and little 6 year old daughter to our base from Brussels airport, to visit us for Christmas . Now, if it hadn't been for my service, I wouldn't have been there in Germany, or on the world's fastest super-highway, and my mother and my family could have had Christmas at home, safely in Canada. My family has paid a dear price for this country â Å“Canadaâ ? and NATO. Families aren't supposed to have to pay the price. I've asked for help for us many times, just to be forgotten and never receive any help as individuals or as a family unit, whatsoever. PRO PATRIA.
Be sure to add me to your favorites list!

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On 14-Feb-05 at 13:23:55 EST, seller added the following information:

If wouldn't mind, please fwd this link to your address book in order to raise public and political awareness for myself, my family, and my comrades. Thank you and God Bless You All for taking the time for my precious family and I.

Cpl(Ret) Marc W MacLean CD

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On 15-Feb-05 at 23:26:14 EST, seller added the following information:

A Bit More Background......

My family has been serving Canada almost concurrently since WWI, almost a century now, as Infantryman, Artilleryman, Technicians, Medics, and Sailors.
My Grandfather Cpl Kenneth MacLean was a Military Medal holder for dragging a mortally wounded comrade to safety while under heavy enemy fire on the Somme. He was also the victim of mustard gas that day. My Grandfather suffered and his family and future generations would suffer for only ever having returned to us a shell of a man. It sure was our loss as well as Grampy's.

Most of his sons and daughters, grandsons and granddaughters, served all over, from Korea to the Congo, Cyprus, and The Former Yugoslavia and area. Everyone of us served with distinction and were released or retired honorably. We have a coffin full of medals between us.
We also have an extra ordinary burden to carry, with many ghosts. As a family with all this service we have been disadvantaged and devastated. Nobody is doing well but those that didn't serve, and even some of them feel the heavy toll.

My father was a Military Policeman during the FLQ crisis at St. Hubert. He was there for the discovery of Pierre Laporte's body. He was also stationed in Germany, like me, when he had to clean up an accident scene at a multi fatality Canadian school bus accident. Dad was affected by these 2 almost concurrent events, but in those days there was nothing being done for PTSD sufferers at all. He suffered terrible, and we kids lost our dad early because he couldn't handle the ghosts. Much like his father. Much like my children are missing thier Father.
This family has suffered a pile for the service of this country, and we have never been satisfactorily treated by Canada or the VA.

I get the part about "Liberal distaste" because I have a brother in law who serves the liberal bench and has on several occassions in several conversations demonstarted his disdain for my family's service.
I have theory on that; His family is Italian and left the homeland to avoid conscription, and our distinguished military past embarrases him. He has never demonstarted a kind heart or any sort of concern for what my family went through. In fact, his major concern during our traumatic event and my mother's passing was my mother's estate. Far too involved he was.

Another fact, while we were struggling in Germany immediately post accident, he was pilfering my mothers home. He also on purpose withheld her desperatly needed medical insurance papers untill it was too late.
This is the sort of folks that make up our liberal leadership today, and that is why I'm so harsh.
I've written MP Peter Mackay who deleted my e-mail without reading, the same applies for MP Scott Brison of my own riding. Mrs McDonough did bother to tell me in a backhand sort of way that what I was doing was wrong and she would forward my e-mail to MP Peter Stoffer. I wonder if to bolster their case against selling medals.

If MP Peter Stoffers private members bill passes, making it illegal for me to sell my medals, what would they have me do? Eat them!!
Please pass this link on to your address books and ask them to do the same. A family was injured and it is unconscionable that we would be so neglected and then ignored, as if told to go away.

Cpl(Ret) Marc W MacLean CD

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On 16-Feb-05 at 15:00:15 EST, seller added the following information:

**UPDATE

Well, I don't have to wonder any more how far one has to push the man before he takes your life away.

I listed these medals & made my statement 4 days ago.

Yesterday I recieved an eviction notice to leave my base housing. Keep in mind I'm fairly ill.
Today, my car was repossesed. Now going to be much more difficult to reintegrate, find new place, get medical help, find new job, fight this thing......
When I cried "injustice" for my family while serving, The CF took my job and support system.

The CF promises continuing care after release. I was released without a family doctor and follow up. I was told to use emegency rooms.
PS. I have so far reinvested any bid money into more eBay advertisment.

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On 17-Feb-05 at 14:22:14 EST, seller added the following information:

***Example of how CF members of the same unit and of similar rank/seniority are treated differently according to how much they are liked by the Brass.

Airman 1 has served 18 years with not a tour under his belt and only a CD on his chest. He develops throat cancer; heavy smoker all his life. He is retained for 7 years so that he can reach a pension of 25 years. Airman 1 was well liked as a yes man to his Brass. Not much respect amongst his peers. The medical officer puts much effort into and sees to it that Airman 1 is retained till 25 years and receives also a very handsome VA pension. They blamed it on workplace chemicals. He was liked by the Brass and got more support than most anybody. So all his traveling expenses & non covered medical bills have been paid for him. He and his family did so well they built a new home.

Airman 2 has served 18 years with several tours and a nice rack on his uniform. I grew up with this airman and know that his back was injured as a young man while working the family farm. He manages to join the CF in mid life and hide his injury successfully because there was never a medical report. Several years later the injury crops up again while improperly heavy lifting a 45 gal drum. A medical injury report is filed,â Å“Form CF98â ?. Airman 2 files a VA claim and on the 1st attempt is successful in being pensioned for an extra $1500 a month on top oh his pay as a CF member still allowed to serve, although he can't lift his own feet. Very average Supply Tech. So he gets to carry on his career building pension benefits while collecting handsome VA pension. His bills and medical expenses are also completely covered by the VA.

Myself, I've served 17 years when I am diagnosed with PTSD; 10 years after the fact, because the Doctor who handled me didn't believe in PTSD It took a non military doctor to recognize my symptoms. This lady Dr. had to argue my case with the non believing Base Surgeon, and finally got me a referral to the OTSSC, that was ultimately referred 1 year later. Most of my referrals usually took about 6 months to see a specialist. All the while my career is disappearing. The lady Dr. was soon out of a job with the base hospital. I'm placed on a sick list when I really want to work. I'm told by my case manager that they will work on finding me a less stressful psn/trade out of my confirmed toxic workplace. I'm assigned one social worker after another, and when I get to the final one I ask him specifically what his role and responsibilities are. He's such a newbie, â Å“and in charge of the base officeâ ?, he has no idea what his role as a base social worker was. He does tell me he's going to also try to find me a new psn. New psn never happens. I develop pancreatic cancer from benzene in the fuel we handled, and cervical/lumbar deterioration from years as an infanteer carrying 100 pound loads on a 130 lb frame. They change course of action while in my hospital bed after cancer surgery, and begin to process my release. I asked for my entitlement of a representing officer to plead my case for retention. I was told there was none for me, all the officers were to busy. I would have to beg and plead on my own to never succeed in retaining one. The release went through. I was too weakened from surgery and PTSD to fight it. I was incredibly well respected by my mates but not my brass for my ways of speaking out against injustice within the CF. So I was released almost immediately compared to the other. I received no base medical support in pressing the VA. I have been waiting twice as long for my files to be reviewed, and I have been refused twice. In my case a family was truly injured while serving NATO overseas? Just don't get it. I swear to my shrink that I died that day on the autobahn, and this is my heck. I served with the utmost of distinction. I was praised by all my superiors and advanced in rank at an unheard of speed, but as soon as I was diagnosed with PTSD, and became a sore spot for the Base Surgeon Dr. Mark Allan. He realized his error when the Lady Dr. insisted I be referred against his will, and he began a campaign to medically release me. I recieve no support as far as paying my expenses, and I'm sure a few of you still reading this story will easily admit; being sick is EXPENSIVE! I am whithout limit completely flabergasted at how these goddamn people get away with this sort of Neglect with Malice, and Abuse of the weakest within thier ranks. I was once the strongest amongst them.

Marc

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On 17-Feb-05 at 14:30:20 EST, seller added the following information:

****I Should Have Said.."According to How Far a Soldier Has His Nose Up His Superior's Butt."

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On 18-Feb-05 at 09:58:26 EST, seller added the following information:

Here Are A Couple E-Mail Addresses If You Kind Readers Would Like To Write Someone To Raise Awareness

Massimo Pacetti pacetm@parl.gc.ca

His riding contact alfonso.carnavale@fbn.ca

Alexa McDonough alexa@hfx.eastlink.ca

Alexa McDonough mcdonough.a@parl.gc.ca

Peter MacKay mackay.p@parl.gc.ca

Scott Brison brisoS@parl.gc.ca

Scott Brison don.bureaux@acadiau.ca

Bill Twatio (Esprit De Corps Mag) Esprit de Corps espritdecorp@idirect.com

Veterans Affairs Appeal Board VRAB_TACRA@vac-acc.gc.ca

VAC Minister Albina Guarnieri Guarnieri.A@parl.gc.ca
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On 18-Feb-05 at 16:06:16 EST, seller added the following information:

A Bit About the Accident and Immediate Events â “ A Picture of Failure, and Breakdown of Responsibility by Those With the Sworn Responsibility to Care for CF Dependants While Stationed Overseas...

It's a sunny but windy day in Baden Solingen this winter day. My young family and I have reached our long sought after goal of a posting to Germany serving NATO. Just like my father 25 years earlier and similar to his father almost a hundred years ago. Three generations serving Canada on foreign soil. All return injured, and all are neglected.

Were all excited for Christmas and my mother's arrival for the holidays. My mother, a European orphan of the WWII had just retired and closed her business after single handedly raising us 3 kids. Mom was excited I was stationed in Germany just as much as we were. This was her home, and she was after all, coming home.

The only affordable flight for Mom was into Brussels. It would mean a 7 hr drive from my base to the airport. With not an inkling of the danger facing us on this superhighway we get on our way. The first stop is the base fueling station, and I meet up with my supervisor who has graciously allowed me the day off to go get mom. We chat for a moment and as we part I can remember myself saying to John that I didn't feel good about the drive, a bit nervous. The autobahn for the first time is a bit like your first solo flight as a pilot. The pucker factor is quite high. Really, we should have been briefed as to the dangers and given some sort of familiarity course. Must not have either been the foresight or the available budget.

All is uneventful on the trip there, and there's a happy reunion with Mom at the Brussels airport. We about face and begin the trip home at about 9 am. The sun is gaining strength and so are the gale winds that are plaguing Europe this winter of 89. Much of the Black Forest was blown down in the storms. Holland was flooding badly and the Berlin Wall had just come down. All this made the highway even more dangerous with wind and an overabundance of east German traffic that didn't drive very much like us.

We were blown sideways suddenly into another car. In correcting the unfamiliar front wheel drive to successfully avoid the other car I lost control of our Ford Escort. We left the road at about 80 mph. These speeds are necessary on this highway. The car spun into a very deep ditch and rolled and flipped until there was just a ball of metal left of the car and it came to rest. Then the glass came to rest all over the metal of the car leaving me with these sounds of squealing tires, falling glass, and the pitiful moans of my injured family. I was in perfect shape, but for light cuts and much later discovered cervical injuries. The first thing I saw when I dared open my eyes was my 6 year old daughter walking towards me along the ditch. I looked to my right and my wife was leaning forward moaning and holding her head. Then I look back for mom and to confirm my daughter is not in her seat. No, that was her in the ditch. My mom is lying on the rear deck out of her seat and in very much pain. She's broken her back and a couple ribs. One of the ribs has punctured her lung. The smoke and dust is clearing, and I unbuckle to climb out the front windscreen to go to my daughter and bring her to her mom. All this is happening in a very dreamy state and slow motion. My training is of benefit to me in organizing the scene until help arrives.

The German police arrive before the ambulance and tell me to leave my injured family to go climb the ditch and sit in the back of their car. At first I was not leaving my family until they were in ambulances, but the police insisted, and I had not much choice. I didn't see my family again for about 6 hrs. In those 6 hrs, not a soul would try to explain to me where they were or what had become of my family. I was being held in a room with a nurse and a police officer. I begged and frustratingly pleaded for news and a phone to call my base Duty Officer for help, â Å“Standard Operating Procedureâ ?. As I was saying, after those horrific 6 hrs I was allowed a telephone and was told what was going on. My mom was in ICU, and my wife and daughter were taken to another hospital. I used the phone to call WO John Hawley at the base, expecting him to notify the Base Duty Officer who would activate emergency procedures for my family. Not a hope in heck would I receive any support from my base!! My Family and I must have been too insignificant. Not a soul was notified and not a single SOP was acted upon.

This story you can imagine makes me relive and become PTSDed out.... So I'll leave you for now and take a break to return later with the continuing tragedy my   family would experience unnecessarily, and I'll outline further the breakdown of chain of command in this case
 
That sure is a horrible story but, forgive me for being frank, what does his PTSD of the accident have anything to do with the Military and VA giving him a pension?
Sorry, but I just don't see the relevance here. Granted, he just might have PTSD, but why should he receive a pension through the military or VA for it?
Maybe I missed something in the post......
 
The member is certainly pensionable because while serving in Europe overseas he/she is covered 24/7. There are many good example of this. The most recent is of 2 airman who while driving a rental fr base to get personal supplies where involved in an accident that was quite serious. All the results aren't in yet, but at first impression, it seems the CF is going to accept responsibly for the event usually resulting in VA entitlement.

The member is also entitled on the point of aggravation where standard SOP was not followed, resulting in aggravated symptoms. The CF medical system has absolute and an unarguable responsibly to the member and his CF Dependants while stationed overseas. It's not a stretch to see how dropping the ball and allowing this member and his family to fall through the cracks, would seriously cause aggravation.
 
Gizmoboy said:
The member is certainly pensionable because while serving in Europe overseas he/she is covered 24/7.

Why would serving "Europe" and getting injured "off duty" be any different than say serving in (just to throw out a location) CFB Shilo, and getting injured "off duty"? Or are you saying that in Euorpe your on duty 24/7?.
Something seems askew here, something just doesn't add up for me. In cases like this the outsider "me" never gets to here the whole story.
 
Ok, a link will suffice, you don't have to spam the entire pathetic story into your post.  Start another thread, and provide the link next time.
 
Just another example of PTSD being the flavour of the day and everyone that has ever had something bad happen to them wants to climb aboard and milk the system.  I find these types of self-pity displays very frustrating.  Those that could really use the help usually suffer in silence.  :salute:
 
The Link so graciously requested by the staff here at Army.ca......there funny.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6513434252&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT


giz
 
The retired member would like to publicly offer the proceeds of the sale to Army.ca's donation fund to show a lack of need for profit and honorable intent.

Please keep in mind, the medals are of no interest to anyone but of course the member and maybe a collector. The member would like to have them in safe careing hands.

Would Army.ca accept?


giz
 
If you read the article you'd notice this happened 15 years ago. The comments so far by the staff of Army.ca demonstrates the ignorance that has left this issue festering for 15 years, and the FAMILY WITHOUT HELP!! It's really not often a family is injured while overseas, and a reader should really be focusing on the lack of care this family received after such a traumatic event. Or maybe as I suspect this staff member will see it; the only sort of service injury deserving support would be one incurred on a battle field. Do some reading of the VA act sir.

This is a family who was silent for 10 years so as not to ruin the chances of serving again. You remember those days when a member couldn't serve and collect VA benefits. And who said this was about a pension. That's another demonstration of the "pension" paranoia that permeates the ones in charge. Maybe just some counselling and therapy would be in order. This family only ever received first aid from German doctors who weren't going to provide more until proof of insurance was provided. Read CFAOs & QR&Os to see the command and medical staff had a responsibility, and they dropped the ball horribly. What a larger crime sir? Quote me one?

the link..... http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6513434252&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Giz
 
Gizmoboy

You have SPAMMED this Forum with this topic.  Give it a bit of a rest and see what will transpire.  As it stands now, you are becoming quite annoying and you are turning people off.

Wait it out and see if someone can think of a REASONABLE solution or suggestion.  'Till then Wait and learn.

GW
 
George Wallace said:
Gizmoboy

You have SPAMMED this Forum with this topic.   Give it a bit of a rest and see what will transpire.   As it stands now, you are becoming quite annoying and you are turning people off.

Wait it out and see if someone can think of a REASONABLE solution or suggestion.   'Till then Wait and learn.

GW

TANKS George  ;)

Regards
 
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