Burgers and massages in the middle of the desert

[George Wallace]

............. That being said, there are a lot of the NSE types in KAF who do a great job, especially the NSE Truckers and FP guys/girls who run daily convoys through bad areas to bring out supplies. Its just that old analogy, that a few bad apples spoils it for the bunch.

All very good points.  This ending statement is the one we all forget so often.

 

[George Wallace]

Getting back to the original article, is there any doubt after reading the comments following it, that the Media may not be getting the whole story back to Canadians, unless they get embedded with the troops outside the wire? 

This is a comment from a Brian H, posted soon after the original article hit the CBC site:

Cute story.

Now that you're settled in, how about some coverage of the PRT, or medical outreach, or the CIMIC teams? You know, the important issues? The things we're there to do? The media as a whole has been terribly negligent on these subjects.

It's hard for Canadians to be informed about Afghanistan when stories like this and stories about ramp ceremonies are all they have to go on.

He takes the reporter to task to send back reports that are more than mere "puff pieces".

 

[Edward Campbell]

But for the media:

1. If it bleeds, it leads; and

2. Controversy sells papers and, therefore, pleases the all importrant advertisers. Reporting on dull, dry facts is unlikely to ensure a long, glorious and highly paid career in the media.

 

[George Wallace]

2. ............ Reporting on dull, dry facts is unlikely to ensure a long, glorious and highly paid career in the media.

So.  Sitting in the safety of KAF fills that criteria, if the reporter doesn't plan on a long career in the media. 

Therefore, "Embedding" should be the answer if they want a long career as a journalist.

 

[Old Sweat]

The story that started this thread was actually about the increased level of amenities that the reporter had noticed when he returned for a third tour. CSA 105 rightly pointed out how this could lead to a we/they attitude and off we went to the races. Now we are back flogging one of our favorite dead horses - the media.

While I don't see the purpose of the original piece, other than as a blog, it did provoke some spirited comments from a cross section of the military community, and a few digs at Wes for good measure. The we/they gap is a constant of military life and is not something we are going to change anytime soon. The garrison mentality is a very human characteristic, as is the attempt to establish routine and enforce standards of dress. I recently interviewed an officer from 2 RCHA who said she had got yelled at for walking around without her hat on during one of her rare visits to KAF from an austere gun position.

Remember for all the jerks that seem to live to annoy the guys and gals outside the wire, there are any number who toil away doing their best to support them despite a support system that in my opinion is/was ill-conceived and not all that responsive.

 

[Edward Campbell]

So.  Sitting in the safety of KAF fills that criteria, if the reporter doesn't plan on a long career in the media. 

Therefore, "Embedding" should be the answer if they want a long career as a journalist.

And some (Blatchford comes immediately to mind but she's not alone) have done that. But many others (most?) make 'flying' visits to KAF where they are briefed and shown about etc but they stay within the wire or go to visit Kandahar City. Those (of the latter group) who do visit a FOB go on escorted 'flyins'.

I'm guessing that it is expensive for media outlets to embed reporters with the battle group. I believe the CF imposes some conditions re e.g. minimum length of stay and I suspect hat liability (insurance) can be an issue for some media outlets - never mind the fact that some journalists, having read Blatchford's (in)famous pieces about farts in the face in the back of the LAV and life in the field, have no desire to go!

 

[aesop081]

But hey, Burger King and Green Bean is definately as hard as only 2 fresh meals a day and being lockdown in quarters over certain times for fear of the daily rocket.

You know, we all picked our trades at the CFRC. We all have an oportunity to apply for an OT.

Have a great day

 

[deh]

Last time I was there pistols were being clawed back from these people and they were forced to carry C7/C8....regardless of rank.

Unless you required it, and it had to be substantiated, you didn't get one...period. If you were out the wire you automatically got one.

Regards

On Roto IV at the PRT FP Coy they clawed them back from anyone under the rank of MCpl.  You can't imagine what it did to morale when we got lectures from a clerk wearing a pistol and my driver and gunner are stuck with C7's in a nyala.  I am not saying that clerks don't deserve them, just not at the expense of my driver.  Whether it was right or wrong, the decision still has a substantial effect on morale.  It took almost two weeks to start laughing about it.  What a disaster, the same thing happened to C8's for the reservist platoon.

On the upside when we rolled in to get our vehicle repaired and upgraded i have never been treated better than by the EW/ECM cats.  Fed us all their goodies and let us relax and catch a nap on their couch.  Even let us watch their soft-core eastern european music video porn on the satellite.  I felt like a super star.

I do think more needs to be done to drive home the point that the "support" in support trades is supporting the combat arms types.  Not that i think anyone thinks differently but i do n't think we are always reading off the same page about what that support entails. I am sure they have the same problem but i think more of the marine "Every marine a rifleman" mentality might help.  There is no reason I can see why the support trades shouldn't go out on supply runs as a trunk monkey or stand a post, time and schedules permitting.  I am not suggesting they go out in place of the battlegroup types but there are plenty of other important infantry type jobs that we could always use another body for.  I understand they have a job to do as well but i am not asking them to do mine for me, just maybe pitch in a little for their own safety and well being.  I worked my fair share of 12 and 18 hour days as well, with the HLTA disaster, everyone in 12Pl did (I am sure everyone has but i can only speak about my immediate org) i don't think it would have killed anyone to maybe once a week hop up in a tower with one of my boys. 

When we keep clerks in the office, cooks in the kitchen and soldiers in the towers or in the field all the time in isolation from eachother, how can you expect anything but two different cultures to spring up.  What we need is a little cross pollination, if you will.  We will work better as a team if we understand a little bit better what it is eachother does.  I have never seen so many scared sweaty pale people as when i would do the HLTA milk runs around the city, it shouldn't be so obvious how many times you have been off camp.

A little team building i guess might be the answer.  My 2 cents.  I don't expect change.

 

[aesop081]

What we need is a little cross pollination, if you will. 

Thats an awesome idea. But of course we will also start seeing combat arms guys in the OR / warehouse / whatever right ?

 

[Franko]

On Roto IV at the PRT FP Coy they clawed them back from anyone under the rank of MCpl.  You can't imagine what it did to morale when we got lectures from a clerk wearing a pistol and my driver and gunner are stuck with C7's in a nyala.  I am not saying that clerks don't deserve them, just not at the expense of my driver.  Whether it was right or wrong, the decision still has a substantial effect on morale.  It took almost two weeks to start laughing about it.  What a disaster, the same thing happened to C8's for the reservist platoon.

Yeah, they tried that as well with us and we had fought to keep them. Quite successfully too.

I could go into some dirty laundry about that tour, but won't on these means.

Sufficed to say if someone wasn't trying to be a pariah (I'm sure you know who that is) you'd have kept them.

Regards

 

[T.I.M.]

The story that started this thread was actually about the increased level of amenities that the reporter had noticed when he returned for a third tour. CSA 105 rightly pointed out how this could lead to a we/they attitude and off we went to the races. Now we are back flogging one of our favorite dead horses - the media.

While I don't see the purpose of the original piece, other than as a blog, it did provoke some spirited comments from a cross section of the military community, and a few digs at Wes for good measure. The we/they gap is a constant of military life and is not something we are going to change anytime soon. The garrison mentality is a very human characteristic, as is the attempt to establish routine and enforce standards of dress. I recently interviewed an officer from 2 RCHA who said she had got yelled at for walking around without her hat on during one of her rare visits to KAF from an austere gun position.

Remember for all the jerks that seem to live to annoy the guys and gals outside the wire, there are any number who toil away doing their best to support them despite a support system that in my opinion is/was ill-conceived and not all that responsive.

I just finished an extremely bad day today, and was going to take it out on this thread by writing an extremely snarky response to those members making smugly superior blanket statements about those on KAF, but then I read this response and thought better of it.  At least some people understand that there are those behind the wire who are doing their best to support those outside it.

And while there are some real pieces of work on KAF it's not like they're any better towards those of us working on camp.  We ALL have to put up with that crap while we're here, except some of us get to leave. 

 

[deh]

Thats an awesome idea. But of course we will also start seeing combat arms guys in the OR / warehouse / whatever right ?

We actually did a lot of the heavy lifting for the tour at least at CNS where we were.  Unloading trucks and light construction tasks, even had guys on kitchen duty occasionally.  Anything handy-manish we generally took care of as our wood butcher was about as overworked as one man could be.  If there was a task i was capable of doing and would help heal the rift, sign me up.  I am very big on respect for other trades and the jobs they are doing.  Ask the SET team, the RCMP or especially the fire fighters or anyone you'd like from my days at the PRT.  I am the english guy with the huge beard.

I think you missed the point of my post though, the fin clerks job is the fin clerks alone and you wouldn't want just anyone doing it as it is highly specialised.  Just like the coy attack is pretty much the combat arms task alone.  The basic soldier skills you learned in basic training are what i am asking everyone to excercise a bit more.  Unless you think that a soldier, sailor or air person after bmq and work-up and what have you is incapable of standing watch with an infantryman present.  Camp defense was our primary task but camp security is everyones responsibility.  I am open to ideas.  Let's make this work.

 

[Dissident]

TF1-07

I remember going off on a clerk when she complained that she didn't want to have her BHP taken away because she didn't want to carry a C7 around. I told her I would be happy to carry my C7 if I knew it meant someone at the sharp end would get my sig. Some people...

At Canada house, I saw some guy come in right off of a long ride on a LAV try and buy some Gatorade with some Canadian money. He'd been out to a FOB for a long time and had never been issued American money. The PSP couldn't sell anything to him, so some KAFfite stepped up and paid for the guys drink. It was only two bucks, which is really nothing, but it made the guys day.

One Bison driver rear ended some local driver in the busy streets of Kandahar city. We had to do the investigation (I was not involved) and the driver was beating himself up over it pretty good. Once his interview was done, I gave him an (air conditioned) ride back to his tent and tried to cheer him up as best I could. Made him laugh a bit, maybe he was just being polite. This soldier died the very next day in an IED blast, while driving his Bison.

I have the utmost respect for anyone who does his/her job diligently and goes the extra mile for another soldier. You never know what they have been through or what will happen the next day.

 

[Teeps74]

To keep with the happier trend on this solemn day...

Near the end of my TAV, some desk jockey in Ottawa decided that I was already back in Canada, and so, closed out my pay account (on exactly time, despite numerous emails concerning my extension flying everywhere for more then a month prior). Little ole me, was informed that I am no longer on contract an hour before mounting up to go out to one of the FOBs on a recce.

The happy part is, I had the most wonderful, sincere and helpful clerk MCpl taking care of my file, who was able to work things out so I would have some cash when I left theatre for my lay over. She worked long hours, trying to resolve an issue that did not get resolved finally until a month and a half after I got back home. (I imagine the most trying part of her job was keeping me sane, now that I have been "released" while still in Afghanistan).

Usually, we only remember the bad ones for some reason... But there are several exceptionally good, excellent, and damned caring clerks, sup techs, cooks, maintainers etc etc etc, who go far far out of their way to help whomever they can. I try to forget the loud mouth idiots that take away from the trades, and work very hard to remember all the hard workers who help this way ward soldier and others survive in an otherwise uncaring world.

My time frame was last spring so if the NSE/NCE clerks from that period are reading this, stand up, and take a bow. You have this crusty old, angry WO's eternal thanks. I was difficult, you made me sane.

All the other trades people while I was there, there are so many to remember, but linemen, sup techs, MSE ops, Logs, cooks, and MPs made my job a success which is continuing on today.

 

[PuckChaser]

You know, we all picked our trades at the CFRC. We all have an oportunity to apply for an OT.

Have a great day

I don't think that you got my point. I picked my trade, love it to death, especially the field aspect. That being said, the reason for hardship and risk allowances is to compensate people for being under stressful and high-risk circumstances... that is currently not happening IMHO in KAF at this time. There was talk of another HA and risk level being added just for the FOB types/pointy end (and I hope the risk level for the NSE convoy troops), but I did not see anything further on it since I've been home. Seems like a good solution to me.

Have a great day

 

[Fusaki]

There was talk of another HA and risk level being added just for the FOB types/pointy end (and I hope the risk level for the NSE convoy troops), but I did not see anything further on it since I've been home. Seems like a good solution to me.

Provided that it's retroactive. ;D

 

[PuckChaser]

On the upside when we rolled in to get our vehicle repaired and upgraded i have never been treated better than by the EW/ECM cats.  Fed us all their goodies and let us relax and catch a nap on their couch.  Even let us watch their soft-core eastern european music video porn on the satellite.  I felt like a super star.

Thats definately where I was hiding whenever I was in KAF. It was either there, my bunk, or the compound marshalling to leave.  ;D

 

[GAP]

Good discussion. 
We have people, mostly officers, serving overseas that need that reminder.  More massage parlors and burger joints aren't really hammering that point home.

It wasn't any different 30+ years ago on a different continent/different war/different Armed Force....

 

[Thompson_JM]

Truth be told, we in the NSE hated those retards too.....  there was a few WO's and MWO's on camp who really did serve no purpose other then Chair Warmer...... 

I recall being Jacked up by the Camp SM because the water pallets at the end of the tent wernt organized tidy enough...

after the 13 hour convoy I had been on, it was very hard to pretend to care about what he was saying... especially after we told him that we had no idea that this was "our" job living at the end of the tent line....
In any case from my buddy who worked in NSE HQ, he told me more then enough about this specific Sgt Maj to confirm my belief he was only there to collect points....

In any case.... I feel the same way about it as most of the Cbt Arm types did... I preferred the FOB.... KAF life was cushy... but the bullshit on base didnt make it worthwhile.... and you never get used to the smell from the emerald lake. 
I'll take MSG or Spin over KAF any day.  Even PBW was better... it was BS Free.

 

[Greymatters]

Well, there are always types like that.  Fortunately there are just as many who work for/with the troops instead of against them...