Briton admits planning to behead Muslim soldier

[Foxhound]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080129.wukplot0129/BNStory/International/home

Briton admits planning to behead Muslim soldier
Reuters

January 29, 2008 at 6:35 AM EST

LEICESTER, ENGLAND — A man has pleaded guilty to a plot to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier, a court was told on Tuesday.

Parviz Khan, a 37-year-old Briton, pleaded guilty earlier this month to a series of charges including the beheading plot which was thwarted by police and the MI5 security service a year ago.

Media had previously been barred from reporting Mr. Khan's plea until Tuesday, when a trial of two other men opened in the central English city of Leicester.

Prosecutor Nigel Rumfitt told the jury Mr. Khan was “a man who has the most violent and extreme Islamist views”, and at the centre of a Birmingham-based network gathering money and equipment to send to Pakistan for the use of “terrorists”.

He also wanted to get himself involved in acts of terrorism, Mr. Rumfitt said.

“He was enraged by the idea that there are Muslim soldiers in the British army,” the prosecutor continued, adding that Mr. Khan had decided to kidnap such a soldier with the help of drug dealers operating in Birmingham.

The victim was to be seized in a part of Birmingham known for its nightlife and bundled into a car.

“He would be taken to a lockup garage and there he would be murdered by having his head cut off like a pig. This atrocity would be filmed,” Mr. Rumfitt said.

Longer version of story at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=HQD5OONCMRSU5QFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2008/01/29/nkidnap529.xml

 

[Roy Harding]

Wow.

Just wow.

 

[Rodahn]

Holy crap....... glad to see that they were caught before they could carry out their plans........

 

[Roy Harding]

... Yes it is, but we are not expecting a blonde haired, blue eyed John Q Public from a small town in Scotland to be packing a bomb vest, loving death as much as we love life, and having outragous beliefs from a cult-like extremist way of life.
...

Perhaps not - then again http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/scotland/article634523.ece

The point is, I think - these types of idiots are not restricted to one group of people or another - they are EVERYWHERE.

Craziness is not race, class, or society specific.  We need to stomp on them no matter their origin.

 

[Foxhound]

You're in fine form tonight Wes.  ;D

This story just creeps me out.  How sick can people get?  Perhaps more importantly, how sick can people be induced to behave?  These guys were going to murder, by slow beheading, on camera, a person, simply because this person decided to actively participate in the defence of his fellow citizens.  I can only conclude that the message they were plotting to convey was that if you are going to be socially responsible, you will be killed horribly.  Madness, sheer madness.  These people are planning the demise of the human race.  It's not only murder on an individual scale, it's the attempted suicide of a species.

The people who spread these ideas are a cancer and should be treated as such.  One does not negotiate a cancer into remission, one pummels it with radiation and toxic pharmaceuticals.

They all deserve some 5.56mm lead/copper chemotherapy.

My two pfennigs.

 

[Col.Steiner]

England is getting pretty ugly! What a can of worms the west has opened up though! A good solution is a one way ticket home, no questions asked.

 

[Roy Harding]

England is getting pretty ugly! What a can of worms the west has opened up though! A good solution is a one way ticket home, no questions asked.

It's not just England:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/70258.0.html

And - just for the record - it's not ALWAYs immigrants.  The example I linked to above regarding Scots terrorists illustrates this - so do the Unibomber and Timothy McVey - just to grab a couple of names off the top of my head.

It is obvious to most that SOME cultures are more likely to produce these types of nuts - and yes, most of those cultures are informed by Islam - but I don't think this makes all Moslems suspect.  Islamic terrorists happen to be the threat at the moment - the various terrorist groups of the recent past had nothing to do with Islam.  (I'm thinking IRA, Red Brigades, other European groups of similar ilk - hell what about our own home grown FLQ?)

And THAT, I think, illustrates my point (not well presented, I admit - I'm in a hurry to get out the door) - which point is that we can't assume that terrorists are spawned ONLY in Islamic societies - nor can we be suspicious of every Moslem who happens to live in the West. 

 

[Col.Steiner]

It's not just England:  http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/70258.0.html

And - just for the record - it's not ALWAYs immigrants.  The example I linked to above regarding Scots terrorists illustrates this - so do the Unibomber and Timothy McVey - just to grab a couple of names off the top of my head.

It is obvious to most that SOME cultures are more likely to produce these types of nuts - and yes, most of those cultures are informed by Islam - but I don't think this makes all Moslems suspect.  Islamic terrorists happen to be the threat at the moment - the various terrorist groups of the recent past had nothing to do with Islam.  (I'm thinking IRA, Red Brigades, other European groups of similar ilk - hell what about our own home grown FLQ?)

And THAT, I think, illustrates my point (not well presented, I admit - I'm in a hurry to get out the door) - which point is that we can't assume that terrorists are spawned ONLY in Islamic societies - nor can we be suspicious of every Moslem who happens to live in the West. 

No, I don't believe it is always immigrants involved in these activities, however, the IRA, FLQ, and the Scots terrorists were targeting specific peoples, unlike SOME muslim terrorist who just seem to be against all Western culture, but seem comfortable moving to and living in that country/culture that they hate. That I just don't get! When I travel abroad, I am very careful not to offend traditions and customs, but it sometimes feels as if that expectation is not applied to some immigrants. They get cut slack as it were. It should go both ways?
England has really got itself into a mess (I feel personally) with its multi-cultural immigration policies, but when those immigrants live there, it is a different story and they are ostracised and eventually feel hostility owards their new home country. I think it is only a matter of time before similar behaviour takes root in Canada.

 

[1feral1]

... but I don't think this makes all Moslems suspect. 

This would have been yet another muslim on muslim crime, and even thinking about what was going to transpire, sends chills down my spine.

Ha, I am loving this 'peaceful' religion more and more every day  :

Its the extreme followers of this religion which are the problem (and the danger to us), and then many mainstreamers, some high stature in their communties, who sit back, deny, or do nothing, except tow the line of being PC, if that. What message does that send to their own, and to us.  No wonder why the gap is growing between us and them, however ther is many muslims out there in Canada and Australia, who like anyone want to have a job and raise a family, and some would defend our countries as anyone else would.

I think that if one feels that islam over all is a threat to us, this is not a phobia nor being racist, it is an opinion, and we are in a democracy.

There is muslim schools in many western countries who are preaching hatred towards the west, and the extreme side of this religion.

That should worry us all.

I am sure the 100,000 Canadians who died in 20th century warfare, didn't die in vain so they others can leave their countries to come over and disrespect ours.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[OkotoksRookie]

This would have been yet another muslim on muslim crime, and even thinking about what was going to transpire, sends chills down my spine.

Its the extreme followers of this religion which are the problem (and the danger to us), and then many mainstreamers, some high stature in their communties, who sit back, deny, or do nothing, except tow the line of being PC, if that. What message does that send to their own, and to us.  No wonder why the gap is growing between us and them, however ther is many muslims out there in Canada and Australia, who like anyone want to have a job and raise a family, and some would defend our countries as anyone else would.

I think that if you feel that islam over all is a threat to us, this is not a phobia nor being radist, it is an opinion, and we are in a democracy.


There is muslim schools in many western countries who are preaching hatred towards the west, and the extreme side of this religion.

That should worry us all.

I am sure the 100,000 Canadians who died in 20th century warfare, didn't die in vain so they others can leave their countries to come over and disrespect ours.

Cheers,

Wes

QFT Wes,
There are plenty of peacefull Muslim's, ones that are embarrassed and ashamed of these radicals/extremists. I'm sitting 10' from one right now who started to cry when I read her the story. Yet the ones who want to live in peace are seldom if ever heard from. Wether that's a product of the media or a failure on their part to raise their voice's loud enough, I can't say. It's truly a relief and a positive sign that this man was caught before he committed the horrendous act he was planning.

 

[Col.Steiner]

QFT Wes,
There are plenty of peacefull Muslim's, ones that are embarrassed and ashamed of these radicals/extremists. I'm sitting 10' from one right now who started to cry when I read her the story. Yet the ones who want to live in peace are seldom if ever heard from. Wether that's a product of the media or a failure on their part to raise their voice's loud enough, I can't say. It's truly a relief and a positive sign that this man was caught before he committed the horrendous act he was planning.

True enough, but where are all these Muslims when it comes time to speak out against shit perpetrated in your name? Did any Muslims condemn that Kadhr family? Not many, if any at all as I remember. Silence is tacit approval. If they can't take a little criticism then maybe more should speak out against terrorist acts done in the name of Islam, god knows Christians have had to eat ehough sh1t in the past, I think we are still hearing about the Crusades!

 

[Roy Harding]

True enough, but where are all these Muslims when it comes time to speak out against shit perpetrated in your name? Did any Muslims condemn that Kadhr family? Not many, if any at all as I remember. Silence is tacit approval. If they can't take a little criticism then maybe more should speak out against terrorist acts done in the name of Islam, god knows Christians have had to eat ehough sh1t in the past, I think we are still hearing about the Crusades!

Stop it.  Just fuckin' stop it.

When the IRA were "knee cappin'" folks - did anyone call for the Roman Catholic Church to condemn them?  Did any one challenge the Pope to "condemn" these animals?  There may have been a few plaintive cries - but I don't recall them.  It was accepted that the IRA was a "rogue element" - and that the Catholic Church did not condone their actions - what's so different in the fight against Islamic fundamentalism now?

This is NOT a fight against ISLAM - it IS a fight against fundamentalism - and that fundamentalism may be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Bhuddist, Communist, Humanist, Animalist - or any other "ist" you may name.

This war is NOT a war against Muslims - it is a war against fundamentalists.  Period.

And before anyone asks - yes, I was in Afghanistan - BUT, that doesn't give me any moral high ground.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Time to get with current events and awake in the 21st century. To paint all persons of a faith, or race, in the same group is discriminatory, racist and radical in its own - xenophobic some? Adopting the views and beliefs of extremists only results in becoming one of them, no better nor worst.

 

[Southern Boy]

I think we can all agree that it is a relief that this Khan character was caught. Lets hope justice will be served in an appropriate manner.

 

[Rodahn]

Stop it.  Just ******' stop it.

When the IRA were "knee cappin'" folks - did anyone call for the Roman Catholic Church to condemn them?  Did any one challenge the Pope to "condemn" these animals?  There may have been a few plaintive cries - but I don't recall them.  It was accepted that the IRA was a "rogue element" - and that the Catholic Church did not condone their actions - what's so different in the fight against Islamic fundamentalism now?

This is NOT a fight against ISLAM - it IS a fight against fundamentalism - and that fundamentalism may be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Communist, Humanist, Animalist - or any other "ist" you may name.

This war is NOT a war against Muslims - it is a war against fundamentalists.  Period.

And before anyone asks - yes, I was in Afghanistan - BUT, that doesn't give me any moral high ground.

Roy; I am prone to agree with the above, but with the caveat of "Radical Fundamentalism" rather than just fundamentalists.... A la David Koresh and others of their ilk......

I know, nit picking.......

 

[Col.Steiner]

Time to get with current events and awake in the 21st century. To paint all persons of a faith, or race, in the same group is discriminatory, racist and radical in its own - xenophobic some? Adopting the views and beliefs of extremists only results in becoming one of them, no better nor worst.

WTF? If I wasn't 'with' current events I probably wouldn't have thought twice about Muslims. Remember, they were our friends in the last century (Afghans vs Soviets), so you can see that I am clearly in the 21st century!
Are you looking for brownie points by jumping in on the thread and siding with the veterans here? You can think what you want, but don't tell me to wake up. Your comments are bland and typical and offer little other than towing the line. Brown nose some?
Is this what you were expecting from your post - "Yeah PO2FinClk !!! +2 - you told him!" ?

 

[Col.Steiner]

Roy; I am prone to agree with the above, but with the caveat of "Radical Fundamentalism" rather than just fundamentalists.... A la David Koresh and others of their ilk......

I know, nit picking.......

I keep reading about these kooks and people here trying to equate them with Islamic Fundamentalism? Let me put it into my perspective - David Koresh, one nut and a few followers!!! Radical Fundamentalism, millions of followers all over the frickin' world! It is like comparing apples to oranges! I know what your are trying to say, yes we have had our own nutjobs, but we have never had anything more than a few small ragtag groups that amounted to anything other than a headline.

 

[Rodahn]

I keep reading about these kooks and people here trying to equate them with Islamic Fundamentalism? Let me put it into my perspective - David Koresh, one nut and a few followers!!! Radical Fundamentalism, millions of followers all over the frickin' world! It is like comparing apples to oranges! I know what your are trying to say, yes we have had our own nutjobs, but we have never had anything more than a few small ragtag groups that amounted to anything other than a headline.

Fundamentalism - strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles. Immaterial of numbers, be it one or many.

Are you looking for brownie points by jumping in on the thread and siding with the veterans here? You can think what you want, but don't tell me to wake up. Your comments are bland and typical and offer little other than towing the line. Brown nose some?

I don't believe that these comments are warrented. It is fine to disagree with another members opinion, but to attack the member personally is not kosher, IMO.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

OberstSteiner,

Time to cool it off a little with your rhetoric, please, and ease up on your comments about other posters.

The Army.ca staff

 

[Roy Harding]

OberstSteiner:

Don't confuse me with a limp wristed liberal.  I'm MUCH farther to the "right" than most in Canada - and further right than more than a few members of these boards.

I'm all for killing these scum - once it is proved that they are, indeed, guilty of something.  What I am NOT a proponent of is painting any group (including members of the CF), identifiable or not, with a broad brush and stating "THERE - there is the enemy, those brown ones".  Or "those red ones" or "those RED ones" or "those Irish ones" or "those Moslem ones" - or any other group you may wish to conjure up.

Unlike you (at least from what I've gleaned from your postings here), I've actually lived amongst persons of other cultures, and occasionally I've helped kill the assholes those cultures produce.  I've come to the conclusion that EVERY culture, in the main, produces wonderful people - and that EVERY culture produces it's fair share of assholes.  It's the latter I want to get rid of - without harming the former.

I have my personal biases, based on personal experience - but I'm not governed by those biases.  I understand that everyone has them - and I give latitude to those who have risked life and limb defending what "we" in the West hold dear - but I DO NOT sanction wholesale condemnation of ANY group of people, no matter WHO advocates it.

This way leads to madness, and I won't be a party to it.